Classic American West Coast Boxing

[kikibalt]

Eastside Boys Club

Frankie with unknown opponent....Take a close look at the ref, recognize him?...

[raylawpc]

Hey Tom, I didnt know you were in St Louis. I thought you were still in Okla. but I'm know sometimes I'm a day late and a dollar short.

From 1982-1985 I worked a short stint as a merchandising supv for an Anheuser Busch franchise here on Long Island. The company sent me to St Louis for some marketing classes for about 3 weekdays and I stayed the weekend. My partner rolled up sick and so I did the trip myself.

Back then, I got caught up with some local Anh-Busch employees and went out on the town at night. At that time, St Louie had a waterfront entertainment area loaded with Rests and bars. We hit the old Spaghetti Factory and some Blues clubs after.
Its my understanding that whole area was washed away from Mississippi Rv. flooding out St Louie a few yrs back. Do they still have the McDonalds Riverboat barge.?
There was another barge next to it on the river serving up fish. Had fried catfish that was out of this world there.

One night we went to a rest. owned by a famous baseball umpire up in town closer to downtown.I forgot the name of the umpire, but his Rest might still be there.
Of course went up in the arch via the sideway elevator. Cool stuff
Was going to venture over to East St Louis, Ill to check out the hood, but they told me that they wouldnt even find my wallet afterwards-I would disappear-poof in thin air. I laughed and didnt go.

Capped off the weekend at a Chicago Bears-St Louis Cardinals football game. Tix courtesy of Anh-Busch on the field. Walter Payton ran in 3 TDs over Cards QB Steve Lomax 2 TD passes. Great day. Bypassed the well known National Bowling HOF next door though .

I was shown Stan Musials Bowling Center though or was it Yogi Berra's. I forgot now.
That was 30 years ago-Hopefully some of that stuff still exists.

We moved to St. Louis from Oklahoma in 1986 when I went to work for a large international non-profit organization.

A lot has changed. Of course, the St Louis Football Cardinals are gone (but we have the Rams). So are most of the riverboats you visited, and so is the bowling hall of fame. Most regrettably, AB is no longer AB; it's InBev (although its still called AB in St. Louis). The old AB did a lot for the community - not so much the new AB.

On the other hand, the riverfront wasn't washed out by the flood; in fact, it expanded and is thriving. (Although its been hit somewhat recently by the economic downturn.) The restaurant you mentioned is Mike Shannon's. He is a Cardinals broadcaster and former Cardinal baseball player. But his restaurant has been relocated from where it was when you visited. And you still don't want to venture over into East St. Louis.

The invitation to show any of the West Coast guys around is also extended to you!

Interesting that AB is no longer. In the 60's AB had plant in the San Fernando Valley known as Busch Gardens, where they would brew Budweiser, Bud Lite, Michelobe, and Busch Bavarian Beer. When they opened they gave tours thru the brewery, which was quite big. You could ride in trams that would take you thru the plant, and there was a tasting area. I think the tours & tourist attraction ended in the 70's. I don't know what it's called today, I know they still brew Bud there, but it's all different.

Rick,

Officially, the company is now "Anheuser-Busch InBev," and the sign on the marquee at the big plant on Pestalozzi Street still says, "Anheuser-Busch," but AB is no more. The company is headquartered in Belgium, and no Americans serve on the Board of Directors.

Even after AB went public many years ago, people in St. Louis still viewed it as a St. Louis "owned and operated" company. The brewery gave a lot back to the community - they offered good jobs with great benefits, and they did a lot of philanthropy, spending millions of dollars to improve life in our town. The community reciprocated, too. I remember, when I first moved to St. Louis, I went into a tavern and ordered a Coors. The guy looked at me like I had a third eye growing out of my forehead, and informed me that his tavern served only AB products. It was that way all over town.

InBev, on the other hand, gives zero support to the community, and has off-loaded everything "AB" in the community that wasn't directly connected to the brewery operations. They do very little charitable work, and the union is bitching over its contract.

But the good news is that I can now go into any tavern in St. Louis and get something other than a Budweiser. And not feel guilty about it.

[CNorkusJr]

Eastside Boys Club

Frankie with unknown opponent....Take a close look at the ref, recognize him?...

Frank , you have a tremendous amount of work that we all enjoy seeing and that you can be proud of. It is extraordinary watching and seeing the boys and the posts of them along the stages of being the accomplished and great boxers they were. Keep Posting !

[kikibalt]

Thanks Rick and Charlie...

[raylawpc]

Eastside Boys Club

Frankie with unknown opponent....Take a close look at the ref, recognize him?...

I'm probably wrong, but is that the Maravilla Kid, Ruben Navarro?

[Ric]

A wee bit off topic, but I found an online source for great old-time boxing books (perform a search), such as:
1) A 1918 book published by the United States War Dept. during the end of World War I about its Rules of Boxing.
2) Spalding's Boxing Guide (1917)
3) Sam Austin's 1904 "Boxing and How to Train" (with lots of great photos)

[kikibalt]

Stanton A.C.

Tony (R) with unknown opponent

[kikibalt]

Eastside Boys Club

Frankie with unknown opponent....Take a close look at the ref, recognize him?...

I'm probably wrong, but is that the Maravilla Kid, Ruben Navarro?

Tom.

[CNorkusJr]

We moved to St. Louis from Oklahoma in 1986 when I went to work for a large international non-profit organization.

A lot has changed. Of course, the St Louis Football Cardinals are gone (but we have the Rams). So are most of the riverboats you visited, and so is the bowling hall of fame. Most regrettably, AB is no longer AB; it's InBev (although its still called AB in St. Louis). The old AB did a lot for the community - not so much the new AB.

On the other hand, the riverfront wasn't washed out by the flood; in fact, it expanded and is thriving. (Although its been hit somewhat recently by the economic downturn.) The restaurant you mentioned is Mike Shannon's. He is a Cardinals broadcaster and former Cardinal baseball player. But his restaurant has been relocated from where it was when you visited. And you still don't want to venture over into East St. Louis.

The invitation to show any of the West Coast guys around is also extended to you!

Interesting that AB is no longer. In the 60's AB had plant in the San Fernando Valley known as Busch Gardens, where they would brew Budweiser, Bud Lite, Michelobe, and Busch Bavarian Beer. When they opened they gave tours thru the brewery, which was quite big. You could ride in trams that would take you thru the plant, and there was a tasting area. I think the tours & tourist attraction ended in the 70's. I don't know what it's called today, I know they still brew Bud there, but it's all different.

Rick,

Officially, the company is now "Anheuser-Busch InBev," and the sign on the marquee at the big plant on Pestalozzi Street still says, "Anheuser-Busch," but AB is no more. The company is headquartered in Belgium, and no Americans serve on the Board of Directors.

Even after AB went public many years ago, people in St. Louis still viewed it as a St. Louis "owned and operated" company. The brewery gave a lot back to the community - they offered good jobs with great benefits, and they did a lot of philanthropy, spending millions of dollars to improve life in our town. The community reciprocated, too. I remember, when I first moved to St. Louis, I went into a tavern and ordered a Coors. The guy looked at me like I had a third eye growing out of my forehead, and informed me that his tavern served only AB products. It was that way all over town.

InBev, on the other hand, gives zero support to the community, and has off-loaded everything "AB" in the community that wasn't directly connected to the brewery operations. They do very little charitable work, and the union is bitching over its contract.

But the good news is that I can now go into any tavern in St. Louis and get something other than a Budweiser. And not feel guilty about it.

When Budweiser sold out to InBev quite a few years back, it had a devastating effect on the country as a whole. Though I did not work for the A-B Franchise anymore, I got into the FDNY, I still had many friends who were left behind. Outsourcing was a huge problem in America, and probably still is, but we took a huge hit with the change at An-B.
Right before that, beer sales were dropping like flies. Between raising the age to 21, this caused many "rathskellers"(bars) in colleges to shutter,the health kick(do wine coolers ring a bell) and of course MADD & SADD orgs doing their great work on getting people to stop drinking & driving- beersales plummeted. I got out just before most of the industry fell out.
Lay-offs and company reposturings took place at many breweries.
Augie Busch and family decided to sell and get a good price from the Europeans before the vats blew a gasket.

Many merged, some franchises went out like we had here on Long Island, Now our Budweiser comes from one giant beer franchise, but stilled brew in New Jersey swill water and shipped.
Just another sign of our times. Many of my friends, some teamster beer truck drivers to the mgmt salesman lost their jobs and meager pension savings. Same story with many businesses nowadays.
I dont drink Bud anymore either. Taste different to me,I think the Europeans tried to work the recipe around and failed miserably. The only place I go to now is a small German microbrewery near me that makes it own Pilsners. 2 or 3 and I'm speaking and singing German folk songs like they did at the Bund meetings years ago.

Thanks Tom. My time in St Louis in the early 1980's was a very nice experience. The city was old then and the food and nite clubs were nice. I would like to return to see a Redbirds game or to see the sites and say hello. Thank You.

[CNorkusJr]

A wee bit off topic, but I found an online source for great old-time boxing books (perform a search), such as:
1) A 1918 book published by the United States War Dept. during the end of World War I about its Rules of Boxing.
2) Spalding's Boxing Guide (1917)
3) Sam Austin's 1904 "Boxing and How to Train" (with lots of great photos)

Thanks Ric

[kikibalt]

Frankie (R) with unknown opponent

[Rick Farris]

Stanton A.C.

Tony (R) with unknown opponent

Stanton AC . . .

I remember Stanton AC. The ring was in an area that looked to once have been a stage?
I remember one friday night at Stanto AC in 1967, I was 15, and saw Mando Muniz talking with Jake Horn . . .
"I just got drafted!" he announced.
I remember thinking, "Damn, that's going to hurt our Golden Gloves team next year."
Mando's time in the Army didn't benefit L.A. but it sure helped the Army.
Muniz was the top amateur Welterweight in America, an Olympian in 1968, a two-time Nat'll AAU champ ('68-69), All Army & Inter-service champ.

[Rick Farris]

Eastside Boys Club

Frankie with unknown opponent....Take a close look at the ref, recognize him?...

I'm probably wrong, but is that the Maravilla Kid, Ruben Navarro?

Tom.

Ruben started boxing at Eastside Boys Club when he was a kid in the 50's.
His first coach was Marty Denkin.
Dan Hanley did a great interview with Ruben for the CBZ.
Marty took Ruben to the Olympic trials in 1964, and turned him pro after his Army hitch in 1967.
After one of Navarro's early fights in Las Vegas, Ruben asks Denkin, "Where's the money?"
Denkin answers, "I left it on the table."
"What table?"
"The crap table."
Marty Denkin, what a guy.

[kikibalt]

Tony when he was 3 1/2...1964

[Randyman]

Just got back from a doctor's visit, have to go back tomorrow for another EKG. But enough of that b-s. I am going to post some pictures of the boys as Jr. Glover's, hope you will indulge me, don't want you to think that I am trying to make this the Baltazar thread. Some of the picture I am sure you seen before, other not so.

I hope everything is going well with the doctor visits Frank. We always keep you in our prayers. As for the photos, keep'em coming. Man I love all the photos you post, especially the old family photos.

[Randyman]

Tony when he was 3 1/2...1964

Already a Tiger..... a cub maybe but a Tiger cub! Tony had a lot of heart, a lot!!

[Randyman]

Frankie (R) with unknown opponent

[Randyman]

A wee bit off topic, but I found an online source for great old-time boxing books (perform a search), such as:
1) A 1918 book published by the United States War Dept. during the end of World War I about its Rules of Boxing.
2) Spalding's Boxing Guide (1917)
3) Sam Austin's 1904 "Boxing and How to Train" (with lots of great photos)

Thanks Ric

Interesting stuff Ric, Thanks.

[Randyman]

Hey Tom, I didnt know you were in St Louis. I thought you were still in Okla. but I'm know sometimes I'm a day late and a dollar short.

From 1982-1985 I worked a short stint as a merchandising supv for an Anheuser Busch franchise here on Long Island. The company sent me to St Louis for some marketing classes for about 3 weekdays and I stayed the weekend. My partner rolled up sick and so I did the trip myself.

Back then, I got caught up with some local Anh-Busch employees and went out on the town at night. At that time, St Louie had a waterfront entertainment area loaded with Rests and bars. We hit the old Spaghetti Factory and some Blues clubs after.
Its my understanding that whole area was washed away from Mississippi Rv. flooding out St Louie a few yrs back. Do they still have the McDonalds Riverboat barge.?
There was another barge next to it on the river serving up fish. Had fried catfish that was out of this world there.

One night we went to a rest. owned by a famous baseball umpire up in town closer to downtown.I forgot the name of the umpire, but his Rest might still be there.
Of course went up in the arch via the sideway elevator. Cool stuff
Was going to venture over to East St Louis, Ill to check out the hood, but they told me that they wouldnt even find my wallet afterwards-I would disappear-poof in thin air. I laughed and didnt go.

Capped off the weekend at a Chicago Bears-St Louis Cardinals football game. Tix courtesy of Anh-Busch on the field. Walter Payton ran in 3 TDs over Cards QB Steve Lomax 2 TD passes. Great day. Bypassed the well known National Bowling HOF next door though .

I was shown Stan Musials Bowling Center though or was it Yogi Berra's. I forgot now.
That was 30 years ago-Hopefully some of that stuff still exists.

We moved to St. Louis from Oklahoma in 1986 when I went to work for a large international non-profit organization.

A lot has changed. Of course, the St Louis Football Cardinals are gone (but we have the Rams). So are most of the riverboats you visited, and so is the bowling hall of fame. Most regrettably, AB is no longer AB; it's InBev (although its still called AB in St. Louis). The old AB did a lot for the community - not so much the new AB.

On the other hand, the riverfront wasn't washed out by the flood; in fact, it expanded and is thriving. (Although its been hit somewhat recently by the economic downturn.) The restaurant you mentioned is Mike Shannon's. He is a Cardinals broadcaster and former Cardinal baseball player. But his restaurant has been relocated from where it was when you visited. And you still don't want to venture over into East St. Louis.

The invitation to show any of the West Coast guys around is also extended to you!

Interesting that AB is no longer. In the 60's AB had plant in the San Fernando Valley known as Busch Gardens, where they would brew Budweiser, Bud Lite, Michelobe, and Busch Bavarian Beer. When they opened they gave tours thru the brewery, which was quite big. You could ride in trams that would take you thru the plant, and there was a tasting area. I think the tours & tourist attraction ended in the 70's. I don't know what it's called today, I know they still brew Bud there, but it's all different.

I remember Busch gardens well Rick, and the trained Parrots. My parents took us there during it's heyday.

[kikibalt]

Frankie (R) with unknown opponent

Randy, Frankie at a very young age had great balance as you can see in this photo...If Chango Cruz only knew what he was getting into when he fought Frankie....

[kikibalt]

Just got back from a doctor's visit, have to go back tomorrow for another EKG. But enough of that b-s. I am going to post some pictures of the boys as Jr. Glover's, hope you will indulge me, don't want you to think that I am trying to make this the Baltazar thread. Some of the picture I am sure you seen before, other not so.

I hope everything is going well with the doctor visits Frank. We always keep you in our prayers. As for the photos, keep'em coming. Man I love all the photos you post, especially the old family photos.

I am seeing doctors now for "low blood pressure", first I had high blood pressure now its low, couple of days ago it was 89/50, that's low!!...Normal for guys my age is 120/80....my hearth rate has been around 60...can't win for losing....

[Rick Farris]

Courtesy John Bardelli . . .

The Spokesman Review
Harry Missildine's Twice Over Lightly
May 18, 1960:
---------------


"It's Made a Wreck of Boxing"


[Sonny] Wiggins has been a fight manager since 1941, a period which almost precisely parallels the growth of television and its effects on the sport.

"It's made a wreck of boxing," said Wiggins, "or just about has. They tell me 42 per cent of the fight clubs closed up. So there aren't as many fighters, and what is worse, there are so few really smart trainers and managers who can teach the kids.

"Like Jack Blackburn (who trained Joe Louis) for instance. We are lucky in Philadelphia because Blackburn worked around there and still have some first-class trainers --- all of them taught by Blackburn.

"And Philadelphia has a bunch of good fighters. Some of the little fight clubs are beginning to come back. They aren't making much, but they're staying open.

"We have Sonny Liston, the number one heavyweight challenger: Harold Johnson, the top light heavy challenger; Joey Giardello was our top middleweight; Charlie Scott and Sugar Hart, a couple of high rated welters and Len Matthews, the real good lightweight – – all from Philadelphia. And we've got some kids better'n some of them who haven't got their chance yet.

"But around the country, boxing isn't doing well.

Wiggins has played professional baseball – – as high as the Southern Association – – for the cardinal organization. Likes basketball and football.

"All the other sports have improved tremendously. I played some high school football. You grab the ball and hit flying or ran the end. One of my kids comes home now with the book of plays and studies it like its his homework.

"I shouldn't say it, because boxing is my business, but where all the other sports have improved, boxing has gone back – – way back.

Tiger Jack Would Blast Johnson

"You take Harold Johnson. Everybody says he is the best light – heavyweight around, that Archie Moore's ducking him, and maybe he is. Harold Johnson . . . Why, Tiger Jack Fox, ( the late Spokane light – heavy) anywhere near his prime, Johnson wouldn't last three rounds with him. Fox would eat him alive.

Ingemar Johansson? Everybody says he looks like an amateur. I think he looks like an amateur. But the guy must have something. He knocked out two of the best heavyweights around, Eddie Machen and Floyd Patterson.

"If he had to pick , in the return match, I have to go with Patterson. Still, you can't argue with what the Swede has done . . .

"Liston looks good, very good. But he has some funny reactions when he gets tagged pretty good. He's never been really hit with a good blast that I know of, but I seen him take a couple of fair punches and his reactions are not those of a great heavyweight.

"But somebody will have to take him to really find out, and who will that be?

Wiggins recalled what [Earl] Atley told him last June. He came back to Philadelphia after knocking out Terry Lewis, then Spokane's undefeated hope with 16 knockouts in 17 fights.

"I remembered what you told me, that he was big and I shouldn't try to find him straight up.

(Wiggins' advice was: Stay in your crouch and when you come up out of it, come with something big.)

" 'Well, I'm in the crouch and I peeped up, and there was that chin, so I did what you said. And there he was, on the floor.

And here we are, at the end.

[Rick Farris]

Just got back from a doctor's visit, have to go back tomorrow for another EKG. But enough of that b-s. I am going to post some pictures of the boys as Jr. Glover's, hope you will indulge me, don't want you to think that I am trying to make this the Baltazar thread. Some of the picture I am sure you seen before, other not so.

I hope everything is going well with the doctor visits Frank. We always keep you in our prayers. As for the photos, keep'em coming. Man I love all the photos you post, especially the old family photos.

I am seeing doctors now for "low blood pressure", first I had high blood pressure now its low, couple of days ago it was 89/50, that's low!!...Normal for guys my age is 120/80....my hearth rate has been around 60...can't win for losing....

Your in my prayers, Frank. Hope things stabilize.

[Cholo]

Lionel Rose what a great boxer, i've been watching a documentary on Rose who had a terrible time making weight while defending his Bantamweight title. I think if not for the weight making issue he would have kept the title for a long time, would have defeated Olivares. Elvis Presley was a fan of Rose and they met while Presley was filming at MGM..

[bennie]

I don't think Rose ever seriously made bantamweight in Oz; Alan Rudkin hinted to that.