Riddick Bowe vs Joe Louis

[dempseyfire]

to anser dempsyefire:
I did say that some of his losses hver to count against him. Ernie Simmons, Dave Carstens, Chalrie Belanger, Jack Curtis; he was a very experienced fighter when he lost to them. You conveniently offer no reasons why he lost to all of these guys. Let me guess, they all legends too?

Yes Farr did fight 5 times in a 16 month period. That is commendable. What you conveniently did not mention was that he went 0-5. Imagine if Bowe lost 5 fights in a row in his prime. Even if it was to Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis etc. He would get ripped constantly for it.

Are you going to seiously say that Bowe would have gone 05 in that 16 month span against hose opponents. He would lose to Louis but would still go 4-1. Baer would have aremote punchers chance and that is it. No way he ever going to lose to fricken Red Burman or a washed up Braddock.

There is a difference with fighting a lot, against some good competition and actaully winning. James Tillis Bert Cooper and Jesse Ferguson fought a lot of good fighters; However they almost always lost. That doesn't make them great.

I'm not going to go to far with your analysis of Holyfield-Bowe. I think it is crap. They were 2 great fights. Nothing more needs to be said.

I have read about Farr-Braddock many times and never have seen mention of a "robbery". It was considered a close fight, maybe Farr should have got it. However, Braddock was way past it. No way in the world Bowe has any trouble in that situation. I would have thought that you have known better to to think a few highlights means a lot.

Yes Bowe could have fought better competition. However, he did fight the best guy there and beat him when that guy was at his best. That has to count for something. He proved it a 2nd time as well that it was no fluke.. He was also consistent enough to beat several fringe contenders. Believe me if Farr fought Tubbs, Biggs, donald, Hide, Seldon etc, and Holyfield 3 times he would have lost more than 1 fight.

btw-He was scheduled to fight Mercer, who was a top 5 heavyweight at the time. However Mercer got upset by Ferguson.

Ultimately it go down to this; you consider just about anyone with a pulse who fought in the 1920s to 1940s to have been a great fighter. Some were, most were not.

I'm sure if Mercer had beaten Ferguson Bowe would've just dropped the belt in the bin like the others . . actually it's Bowe's fault that the WBO title gained any measure of legitimacy whatsoever b/c he chose to defend that bogus title besides the real titles by sidestepping Lewis.

The 1930s was far deeper across all weight classes than the 1990s, sorry you can wax ignorant about the merits of Nova, Baer, Burman etc., but that won't change the fact they were 20 times better than Seldon, Hide, Ferguson, Gonzales.

Farr won more rounds than Braddock but Jimmy rallied in the final round. Braddock was such a fan favorite that the papers loved the story of the 'Cinderella Man" pulling another upset but in any round by round you find the best the papers can do is a draw. Farr also lost the 3rd on a foul simply b/c he hit Braddock low once in a round he was winning handily. No low blow penalty and Farr wins the fight. And how was Braddock "way past it" . . he had been HW champion a year earlier, certainly past his best but he was no some shot, washed up fighter.

Holyfield-Bowe I was a great action fight but it does't change the fact that EVander fought a retarded fight. He stood right in front of and laid on the inside with a much bigger man and got out-slugged. Bowe was practically handed an early birthday cake by Evander going that route in the 2nd round. And hell, it was still a competitive, relatively close fight.

And Holyfield in the rematch "hadn't received much wear and tear"? Are you joking? By 31 he had gone through two career's worth of punishment; the 15 round war with Qawi, Dokes, Stewart, Cooper, Foreman's big shots in their fight, and Bowe I.

[Klee Gluckman]

Id have to see Bowe against a hard puncher before making my prediction.

Will say that Bowe has a shot. He's big and strong and capable of putting Louis on the canvas.

[Ambling Alp]

No I don't think he would beat Louis and have said so. however, he was far better than the likes of Tommy Farr and Buddy Baer. He would have been the # 2 heavyweight of the late 1930s and 1940s.

Holyfield was still pretty close to his prime when he fought Bowe the 2nd time. It was only a year later. He kept himself in great condition. He fought a great fight in their rematch like he usually did.

Braddock had 85 fights before he fought Farr. He had much, more wear and tear on him. He also had a grand total of one fight in the last 3 years. He had to be very rusty. Make all the excuses you want, Farr could not get it done; yet again.

Still have not heard the excuse for the losses to such legends as Eddie Simmons, Dave Carstens, Charlie Belanger and Jack Curtis.

Overall, there was certainly a lot of talented fighters in the 1930s. The heavyweight division did have some depth in the early 1930s. However, by the late 30's it was pretty weak. There was not much competition for besides for Louis. You can prop those other guys up all you want, it doesn't mean thant they were that good.

As I have said before if you want to nitpick a one era and ignore all it's positives. You can puff up fighters and make one crybaby excuse after another for fighters from an earlier era if you want. However, by doing so you are not being accurrate.

If someone is impressed with Farr going 0-5 in a 16 month period and belittles Bowe's first two fights with Holyfield; so be it.

[dempseyfire]

For about the 5th time, Farr was not a fully developed heavyweight when he had those losses and extremely young, 18-20 years of age. Once he fully grew and went up to HW, he had an impressive run and only lost to elite boxers.

Farr had a better jab than Holyfield, was just as durable, and better stamina than Evander at HW. He would've fought the fight Evander did vs Bowe to success to a T, but not stupidly sat on the inside trying to be a hero. You can scream outrage "oh my he thinks all of the old timers were amazing blah blah" all you want but all one has to do is watch Farr vs Louis and view what I'm saying for themselves. Evander wouldn't have lasted 15 rounds with Louis, way too open defensively and stationary in spots at heavyweight. And before you really throw up your dinner, yes I would rate Holyfield over Farr all-time, but head to head that's a very competitive matchup. When you have as many fights as Farr had, you learn lots of things . . not only becoming a master judge of distance and timing, but also how to pace yourself over a long fight. Holyfield, for all his attributes, never learned how to pace himself HIS ENTIRE CAREER! That's why there were so many rounds he had to display that big heart of his after standing right in front of his opponent, not throwing anything, and taking bombs to the head and body, he either exerted too much in earlier rounds or even earlier in the round.

It's also not opinion that boxing drank from a far shallower pool of fighters in the 90s than the 30s, that's a fact jack. And the film/performances of the fighters bear this out.

[Ambling Alp]

I said the heavyweight division in the late 1930s was not good. Not talking about the early 30s or other weight classes.
Ok I think we are done here. The films shows that the guys from the late 1930s were all awesome. 0-5 if done in 16 months is impressive. Beating a prime Holyfield not so impressive. Got it.

[dempseyfire]

I said the heavyweight division in the late 1930s was not good. Not talking about the early 30s or other weight classes.
Ok I think we are done here. The films shows that the guys from the late 1930s were all awesome. 0-5 if done in 16 months is impressive. Beating a prime Holyfield not so impressive. Got it.

He went 0-5 in 16 MONTHS (!), with 2 of those decisions (Braddock and Burman) considered bad decisions, one very close decision vs arguably the #1 HW of all time (Louis), and tough, close fights vs Baer and Nova (who can see in his fights with Baer had incredible stamina, durability, athleticism and fine boxing skills).

Yeah, Bowe fought an excellent fight vs Holyfield, but this is a guy who would have NEVER even considered fighting such a schedule in just over a year. It's apples and frikkin' oranges.

[985802]

Bunch of crazy idiots joe would be destroyed way to weak vs hard shots and wasnt a real hw and was stiff and slow never would land

[margaret thatcher]

I said the heavyweight division in the late 1930s was not good. Not talking about the early 30s or other weight classes.
Ok I think we are done here. The films shows that the guys from the late 1930s were all awesome. 0-5 if done in 16 months is impressive. Beating a prime Holyfield not so impressive. Got it.

He went 0-5 in 16 MONTHS (!), with 2 of those decisions (Braddock and Burman) considered bad decisions, one very close decision vs arguably the #1 HW of all time (Louis), and tough, close fights vs Baer and Nova (who can see in his fights with Baer had incredible stamina, durability, athleticism and fine boxing skills).

Yeah, Bowe fought an excellent fight vs Holyfield, but this is a guy who would have NEVER even considered fighting such a schedule in just over a year. It's apples and frikkin' oranges.

farr over peak bowe lol - what type of crack are you smoking mate?

[DrDuke]

How is it possible to have 67% against 33% in favor of Louis?

Bowe was a faster and stronger fighter, with better movement and punch resistance, with an ability to take advantage of superior size.

Bowe would easily impose his inside onslaught on Louis and gradually beat him up.

[985802]

How is it possible to have 67% against 33% in favor of Louis?

Bowe was a faster and stronger fighter, with better movement and punch resistance, with an ability to take advantage of superior size.

Bowe would easily impose his inside onslaught on Louis and gradually beat him up.

Easy cause people don't watch matches and watch joe time only or are crazy like the votes should be 0 for joe

[985802]

A big guy with a bad defense vs Louis =Brutal beating for Bowe.

How does joe win being stiff and slow your a idiot

[985802]

Everyone who picked joe needs to watch the era bowe was in and see how they fought joe would never land he was to stiff and slow and missing advances in tech so how does he win you idiots he doesn't joe gets destroyed its obvious he never fought anybody with the tech combined with weight and skill like you people really are crazy like really

Like all you people have to compare is trash movers with bad tech like bill and max which is a waste to even compare so its really nobody to compare to bowe or his era

Joe was hurt by people with bad tech like galento who hit hard bowe hits way harder them him and with way better tech joe would not be just tanking bowes shots he wouldnt be able to handle it cause he was a lw compared this is a mismatch anybody with good eyes can see this

[prewarboxing]

Everyone who picked joe needs to watch the era bowe was in and see how they fought joe would never land he was to stiff and slow and missing advances in tech so how does he win you idiots he doesn't joe gets destroyed its obvious he never fought anybody with the tech combined with weight and skill like you people really are crazy like really

Like all you people have to compare is trash movers with bad tech like bill and max which is a waste to even compare so its really nobody to compare to bowe or his era

Joe was hurt by people with bad tech like galento who hit hard bowe hits way harder them him and with way better tech joe would not be just tanking bowes shots he wouldnt be able to handle it cause he was a lw compared this is a mismatch anybody with good eyes can see this

Why do you keep referring to anyone who doesn't agree with your views as an idiot? You have only been on this forum a few weeks and yet so many of your posts are like this. What is the matter with you? Can you not debate with people without feeling the need to insult them?

Miles Templeton

[985802]

Everyone who picked joe needs to watch the era bowe was in and see how they fought joe would never land he was to stiff and slow and missing advances in tech so how does he win you idiots he doesn't joe gets destroyed its obvious he never fought anybody with the tech combined with weight and skill like you people really are crazy like really

Like all you people have to compare is trash movers with bad tech like bill and max which is a waste to even compare so its really nobody to compare to bowe or his era

Joe was hurt by people with bad tech like galento who hit hard bowe hits way harder them him and with way better tech joe would not be just tanking bowes shots he wouldnt be able to handle it cause he was a lw compared this is a mismatch anybody with good eyes can see this

Why do you keep referring to anyone who doesn't agree with your views as an idiot? You have only been on this forum a few weeks and yet so many of your posts are like this. What is the matter with you? Can you not debate with people without feeling the need to insult them?

Miles Templeton

Everyone who picked joe needs to watch the era bowe was in and see how they fought joe would never land he was to stiff and slow and missing advances in tech so how does he win you idiots he doesn't joe gets destroyed its obvious he never fought anybody with the tech combined with weight and skill like you people really are crazy like really

Like all you people have to compare is trash movers with bad tech like bill and max which is a waste to even compare so its really nobody to compare to bowe or his era

Joe was hurt by people with bad tech like galento who hit hard bowe hits way harder them him and with way better tech joe would not be just tanking bowes shots he wouldnt be able to handle it cause he was a lw compared this is a mismatch anybody with good eyes can see this

Why do you keep referring to anyone who doesn't agree with your views as an idiot? You have only been on this forum a few weeks and yet so many of your posts are like this. What is the matter with you? Can you not debate with people without feeling the need to insult them?

Miles Templeton

Where do you get my views from like a opinion the vids shows these people are stiff slow and missing techs is this stuff not on video

And why are you talking to me instead of these people why would anything be wrong with me if I don't pick the outdated person who obviously would lose like your talking to the wrong person cause nobody should be picking those people like you already had the answer before you talked to me

And I can debate people who talk with logic or anything from video that is fact cause when I have asked people to show proof how I'm wrong I get nothing or the outdated videos which is odd

cause vids show a person who is comparable means it would be logical to pick said outdated person and since no proof ever is shown means its no reason to pick any outdated person cause i can name mutiple people and have shown mutiple way more advanced then the outdated people in 30s which automatically should make it a no contest

Which is why I use the word crazy and idiot Look at the troll miles saying crap see how these people are so crazy and you asked why I talk to these people this way

[prewarboxing]

Everyone who picked joe needs to watch the era bowe was in and see how they fought joe would never land he was to stiff and slow and missing advances in tech so how does he win you idiots he doesn't joe gets destroyed its obvious he never fought anybody with the tech combined with weight and skill like you people really are crazy like really

Like all you people have to compare is trash movers with bad tech like bill and max which is a waste to even compare so its really nobody to compare to bowe or his era

Joe was hurt by people with bad tech like galento who hit hard bowe hits way harder them him and with way better tech joe would not be just tanking bowes shots he wouldnt be able to handle it cause he was a lw compared this is a mismatch anybody with good eyes can see this

Why do you keep referring to anyone who doesn't agree with your views as an idiot? You have only been on this forum a few weeks and yet so many of your posts are like this. What is the matter with you? Can you not debate with people without feeling the need to insult them?

Miles Templeton

Everyone who picked joe needs to watch the era bowe was in and see how they fought joe would never land he was to stiff and slow and missing advances in tech so how does he win you idiots he doesn't joe gets destroyed its obvious he never fought anybody with the tech combined with weight and skill like you people really are crazy like really

Like all you people have to compare is trash movers with bad tech like bill and max which is a waste to even compare so its really nobody to compare to bowe or his era

Joe was hurt by people with bad tech like galento who hit hard bowe hits way harder them him and with way better tech joe would not be just tanking bowes shots he wouldnt be able to handle it cause he was a lw compared this is a mismatch anybody with good eyes can see this

Why do you keep referring to anyone who doesn't agree with your views as an idiot? You have only been on this forum a few weeks and yet so many of your posts are like this. What is the matter with you? Can you not debate with people without feeling the need to insult them?

Miles Templeton

Where do you get my views from like a opinion the vids shows these people are stiff slow and missing techs is this stuff not on video

And why are you talking to me instead of these people why would anything be wrong with me if I don't pick the outdated person who obviously would lose like your talking to the wrong person cause nobody should be picking those people like you already had the answer before you talked to me

And I can debate people who talk with logic or anything from video that is fact cause when I have asked people to show proof how I'm wrong I get nothing or the outdated videos which is odd

cause vids show a person who is comparable means it would be logical to pick said outdated person and since no proof ever is shown means its no reason to pick any outdated person cause i can name mutiple people and have shown mutiple way more advanced then the outdated people in 30s which automatically should make it a no contest

Which is why I use the word crazy and idiot

Utter drivel.

It is people like you that have dissuaded me from continuing to post on this forum. I hardly bother any more. There was once a time when Boxrec was full of knowledgeable posters who respected each other's view and who could express their opinions entertainingly and with clarity.

Now we have got you.

You have not even come close to justifying why you call people who don't happen to agree with you an 'idiot'. In fact your explanation is embarrassing and barely comprehensible. The bits that I could fathom I disagree with on a number of levels.

Carry on rambling if you like, it won't matter to me, but you need calling out for your abuse and that is why I have raised it with you.

Ciao

Miles Templeton

[985802]

Why do you keep referring to anyone who doesn't agree with your views as an idiot? You have only been on this forum a few weeks and yet so many of your posts are like this. What is the matter with you? Can you not debate with people without feeling the need to insult them?

Miles Templeton

Why do you keep referring to anyone who doesn't agree with your views as an idiot? You have only been on this forum a few weeks and yet so many of your posts are like this. What is the matter with you? Can you not debate with people without feeling the need to insult them?

Miles Templeton

Where do you get my views from like a opinion the vids shows these people are stiff slow and missing techs is this stuff not on video

And why are you talking to me instead of these people why would anything be wrong with me if I don't pick the outdated person who obviously would lose like your talking to the wrong person cause nobody should be picking those people like you already had the answer before you talked to me

And I can debate people who talk with logic or anything from video that is fact cause when I have asked people to show proof how I'm wrong I get nothing or the outdated videos which is odd

cause vids show a person who is comparable means it would be logical to pick said outdated person and since no proof ever is shown means its no reason to pick any outdated person cause i can name mutiple people and have shown mutiple way more advanced then the outdated people in 30s which automatically should make it a no contest

Which is why I use the word crazy and idiot

Utter drivel.

It is people like you that have dissuaded me from continuing to post on this forum. I hardly bother any more. There was once a time when Boxrec was full of knowledgeable posters who respected each other's view and who could express their opinions entertainingly and with clarity.

Now we have got you.

You have not even come close to justifying why you call people who don't happen to agree with you an 'idiot'. In fact your explanation is embarrassing and barely comprehensible. The bits that I could fathom I disagree with on a number of levels.

Carry on rambling if you like, it won't matter to me, but you need calling out for your abuse and that is why I have raised it with you.

Ciao

Miles Templeton

So if I didn't justify it why is it I explained in mutiple long paragraphs you idiot or maybe you cant read good or are slow cause the person asked me why and i explained then you say ramble how is it rambling explaining in detail so people will understand oh so I should have explained shorter so slow people like you understand is that it cause that's odd for you to
say

cause if somebody asked you a question you explain in detail and it wouldn't be called ramble but for me its called rambles so that means your a hypocrite to

So your a crazy idiot hypocrite who is slow to

Cause I won't say it in a nice way which is what you wanted you people are crazy and idiots like I said cause that's what you show just like you have by saying these idiotic comments to me

[prewarboxing]

That response is beyond pathetic.

Are there no mods around here to put a stop to this sort of individual? Seems to think he has the right to tell everyone they are idiots. He's only been here five minutes and he is turning this forum into a series of ugly insulting rants.

He goes or I go

Miles Templeton

[oogiebe]

That response is beyond pathetic.

Are there no mods around here to put a stop to this sort of individual? Seems to think he has the right to tell everyone they are idiots. He's only been here five minutes and he is turning this forum into a series of ugly insulting rants.

He goes or I go

Miles Templeton

Agreed.

[Tony1244]

Joe Louis would break Riddick down. KO6-KO8.

[985802]

Joe Louis would break Riddick down. KO6-KO8.

Yea he beats a man way bigger than him who hits way harder then anybody he fought and moves way better and he never would land on bowe cause he was to stiff and slow your a idiot

[oogiebe]

Joe Louis would break Riddick down. KO6-KO8.

Yea he beats a man way bigger than him who hits way harder then anybody he fought and moves way better and he never would land on bowe cause he was to stiff and slow your a idiot

LMFAO! You can't be this stupid. You must be taking the piss.

[985802]

Joe Louis would break Riddick down. KO6-KO8.

Yea he beats a man way bigger than him who hits way harder then anybody he fought and moves way better and he never would land on bowe cause he was to stiff and slow your a idiot

LMFAO! You can't be this stupid. You must be taking the piss.

Joe Louis would break Riddick down. KO6-KO8.

Yea he beats a man way bigger than him who hits way harder then anybody he fought and moves way better and he never would land on bowe cause he was to stiff and slow your a idiot

LMFAO! You can't be this stupid. You must be taking the piss.

Your responding to the wrong person I didn't say Joe would beat bowe get glasses or learn to read

[Tony1244]

Joe Louis would break Riddick down. KO6-KO8.

Yea he beats a man way bigger than him who hits way harder then anybody he fought and moves way better and he never would land on bowe cause he was to stiff and slow your a idiot

If you're going to call everyone an idiot, could you please write as well as I could when I was 10 years old? Thanks in advance.

[985802]

Joe Louis would break Riddick down. KO6-KO8.

Yea he beats a man way bigger than him who hits way harder then anybody he fought and moves way better and he never would land on bowe cause he was to stiff and slow your a idiot

If you're going to call everyone an idiot, could you please write as well as I could when I was 10 years old? Thanks in advance.

Joe Louis would break Riddick down. KO6-KO8.

Yea he beats a man way bigger than him who hits way harder then anybody he fought and moves way better and he never would land on bowe cause he was to stiff and slow your a idiot

If you're going to call everyone an idiot, could you please write as well as I could when I was 10 years old? Thanks in advance.

Well I can't do that cause I dont know how you wrote and if your thinking of school still you should go back i don't care for it

[Tony1244]

Yea he beats a man way bigger than him who hits way harder then anybody he fought and moves way better and he never would land on bowe cause he was to stiff and slow your a idiot

If you're going to call everyone an idiot, could you please write as well as I could when I was 10 years old? Thanks in advance.

Yea he beats a man way bigger than him who hits way harder then anybody he fought and moves way better and he never would land on bowe cause he was to stiff and slow your a idiot

If you're going to call everyone an idiot, could you please write as well as I could when I was 10 years old? Thanks in advance.

Well I can't do that cause I dont know how you wrote and if your thinking of school still you should go back i don't care for it

We agree. Your boxing knowledge, education, and ability to make friends are all pretty much the same.