Anyone fancy Taylor for the upset ???

Foggy · Post by **Foggy** » 12 Jul 2005, 08:11

So does anyone fancy Taylor to take out Hopkins this weekend, as unlikely as it seems i suppose someone has got to do it eventually or does Hopkins take another wide convincing victory.

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 12 Jul 2005, 08:16

Was actually thinking of making this my first boxing bet in a while, but 17/10 (Betfair) seems to short to me.

Hopkins likely to wiley for Taylor in my opinion... but who knows.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 12 Jul 2005, 08:25

I don't think Taylor will win but as much as I like Hopkins (I do really like him and love seeing his fights), it wouldn't be a bad thing to have a new star in the division. Taylor will need to go after B-Hops from the opening bell and make sure he doesn't get to take time off when he feels like it. However, most guys know this when they fight Hopkins yet none of them can ever do it. Unless he gets KO'd, Taylor doesn't have much to lose from this fight. If he goes down on points, everybody expected him to and the experience will have done him good. If he wins he's a superstar, and this might just be the right time to catch a declining Hopkins.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 12 Jul 2005, 08:35

I can't credit Hopkins enough for showing no hesitation in making the fight that any knowlegable boxing fan would ask for. He's certainly not looking for easy defences.

Good luck to Taylor, I'm not sure what his gameplan is but it'll have to be something special. Hopkins has seen it all.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Jul 2005, 11:53

I have a bet going with my old man on this fight, he's going for Taylor. I'm really on the fence with this one - I've been championing Jermain since he turned pro.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2005, 12:09

Jermaine is a fantastic natural athlete, and that may just be enough to carry him to victory. He makes some errors, but that stick of his could be enough to upset Nard's rhythmn, especially as he has height and reach advantage.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 12 Jul 2005, 14:27

The only way Taylor can win is if Hopkins's body fails him. At 40, despite his awesome conditioning, it's a factor that can't be ruled out.

Taylor will just get shut out if he tries to box Bernard, so I'm looking for him to jump on him and try and rough him up. I think Hopkins may get roughed up a little before pulling out a devastating fifth round knockout.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 12 Jul 2005, 14:39

Had to laugh when I saw the HBO preview show for this, some pearlers:

* Their top 5 middleweights: Hopkins, Hagler, Hearns, Robinson, Monzon.

"you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who comes close to these names".

Tommy Hearns would be lucky to get into the top 50 in any middleweight great list. The other names are okay, but you could also name 5 others instead of those 5, so saying 'no one else comes close' is, well, pure bullshit.

* Jermain: "the biggest challenge isn't winning the belts, it's holding onto them as long as he has".

"Psst, hey, if you win the middleweight titles you're gonna have to defend against actual middleweights, mate."

* Hopkins's style is very much like Marvin Hagler's.

Hopkins's style is nothing like Marvin Hagler's.

* The general shilling of Taylor as some sort of successor/heir to Hopkins.

Yes, let's look at the similarities:

Hopkins has a better jab.

Hopkins has a better defence.

Hopkins is better in close.

Hopkins is better at clinching.

Hopkins was faster than him at his age (maybe even now).

Hopkins was a bigger puncher than him at his age (maybe even now).

Hopkins has better footwork.

Hopkins is infinitely more wiley (maybe one of the most intelligent ever), compared to Taylor, who often comes across as thick.

Hopkins is better conditioned - doesn't have to drop as much weight as Taylor (and he's over 10 years older, lol).

Hopkins has shown he can execute a gameplan in a fight in the same manner as the best in history.

Hopkins has a more experienced trainer who's been in boxing a lot of years, and knows the game inside out - and then some.

Hopkins started his career in obscurity fighting at short notice and in raucous venues. Taylor has been carefully moved against soft opposition in friendly arenas - either the seats have been empty, or he's been favourite.

This could go on forever, so I think it's safe to conclude: Jermain Taylor is no sort of 'heir' to Bernard Hopkins. They are each their own man, and, in my opinion, Hopkins is the 'better' man.

The attempt to link Taylor to Hopkins is purely because the HBO execs want to transfer Hopkins hard-earned star power over to a supposed 'younger version', who will then rake it in for them in ultra-publicised 'defences'.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 12 Jul 2005, 14:43

I can see this one going the distance, and at 25/1 the draw looks inviting :) But I think Hopkins will win a MD

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 12 Jul 2005, 14:46

lvlarc_uk wrote:I can see this one going the distance, and at 25/1 the draw looks inviting :) But I think Hopkins will win a MD

A MD for Hopkins is a safe bet, maybe even a MD the other way (though that would suck). I'm still sticking with that eccentric prediction above, though, because I think Taylor will jump on him and force him to fight. It's his only real chance, in my view. :P

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 12 Jul 2005, 14:59

I think the timing could be right for an upset. Taylor needs to set a fast pace and maintain it throughout. If he can do that I think he can outwork Hopkins for a decision but he's going to have to take some leather to do so. Can Hopkins keep up with a fast pace for 12 rounds at his age?

I dont see how Hopkins could knock him out, wear him down for a late stoppage perhaps but I dont see him just KOing a big guy like Taylor.

Raff The Frenchman · Post by **Raff The Frenchman** » 12 Jul 2005, 16:15

i have seen Taylor fight...and i have seen Hopkins's last fight vs eastman...Taylor has more power and speed than Hopkins...Taylor is the bigger man this time and i also think he is the quicker man...his chin is untested tho and the experience is a derterminant factor in this fight...but my pick is Taylor, i think Hopkins has the time playing against him and every month will make him an older man...still i doubt Hopkins will get stopped...so Taylor UD

dve3333 · Post by **dve3333** » 12 Jul 2005, 18:45

I think Hopkins will outfox Taylor early but Taylor's constant harrying will catch up to him and the torch will be passed via a late stoppage

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 13 Jul 2005, 03:30

Raff The Frenchman wrote:i have seen Taylor fight...and i have seen Hopkins's last fight vs eastman...Taylor has more power and speed than Hopkins...Taylor is the bigger man this time and i also think he is the quicker man...his chin is untested tho and the experience is a derterminant factor in this fight...but my pick is Taylor, i think Hopkins has the time playing against him and every month will make him an older man...still i doubt Hopkins will get stopped...so Taylor UD

Just keep in mind that Hopkins barely ever loses a round, never mind a fight. The closest I see this fight is 8-4 in rounds.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 13 Jul 2005, 04:12

So Hopkins is going to have a bright start before fading down the stretch, even though in nearly all of his fights it's the exact opposite that happens?

Taylor might be big and strong but we've seen so many good fighters become discouraged once Bernard warms up, I wouldn't put a penny on Taylor taking the titles.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 13 Jul 2005, 04:42

Taylors chin is relatively untested, but I'll be very surprised if Hopkins KO'd him with a single shot - when has he ever done that to a full blown Middleweight? If Taylor gets stopped which I think is unlikely - its more likely be on his feet late on

We all know Taylor has the physcial tools the question is will he be mentally ready. He needs to not become discouraged if Hopkins starts outlanding him and keep pushing the pace. As I said before I really doubt Hopkins can keep a fast pace for 12 rounds at his age thats the key for Taylor starting fast and keeping it up even if Hopkins is taking the early rounds he mustnt become discouraged.

If he lets Hopkins fight his fight then he's in trouble as he'll just outhustle him.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 13 Jul 2005, 05:31

A mate of mine who has been following the game for 55 years reckons Taylor will win. He is usually a good judge, his first fight was Archie Moore v Yolande Pompey at Haringay Arena.

He is going for Taylor.

I cant see it, I think Taylor will bring out the best in Hopkins, I think it will be a great fight.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 13 Jul 2005, 06:10

nickd wrote:Taylors chin is relatively untested, but I'll be very surprised if Hopkins KO'd him with a single shot - when has he ever done that to a full blown Middleweight?

Unbeaten Joe Lipsey almost 10 years ago (ominously at the MGM Grand). Lipsey was not only a full blown middleweight, but he is the last one to have dragged Hopkins into a fight - and also one of the couple of people who have marked him up a little (he had a little bruising around both eyes, as in the early rounds Lipsey showed no fear or respect for the champ, and landed some decent hard shots).

He was rewarded for his bravado with a brutal counter right uppercut that had him spark out on his feet (kinda like the one that almost decapitated Simon Brown), before three unnecessary blows flush on the face sent his head rebounding off the canvas.

A couple other guys, Council and Echols 1, jumped on him from the off and tried to make him work, but were outfoxed. Neither really dragged him into a proper fight - where everything turns even.

Maybe you could say Echols in the second fight, after the body slam took his arm away, brought him into a fight. But this match was something of an exception due to all the fouling (even Hopkins's knockout stemmed from a foul, IMO).

Hopkins has underrated power because he is often so cagey. If he opens up fully I think people may be surprised.

nickd wrote:If Taylor gets stopped which I think is unlikely - its more likely be on his feet late on

Yeah, that was my original pick - way back. I thought a fairly standard performance based around a simple left jab would set Taylor up for a late TKO.

The more I think about it I get the impression Taylor (and/or his handlers) will know that is more or less inevitable if Jermain fights with Hopkins. They need to get Hopkins to fight with Jermain. As far as I can see, he can't possibly do that by boxing. He needs to pounce on the old man and try and shock him ASAP. I think Hopkins has enough left in the tank to pull it out if it goes this way.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 13 Jul 2005, 07:13

Hopkins is ultra cautious by nature, and I don't think he'd have taken this fight unless he was certain of beating Taylor, which I think he will via UD

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 13 Jul 2005, 07:39

Hopkins also has the quickest KO in Middleweight title history by knocking out Steve Frank in 24 seconds of the first round. This guy didn't have much of a record but had previously been fighting at Super Middleweight and Light Heavyweight.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Jul 2005, 07:47

No matter how certain he is, there's two people in that ring. Tszyu thought he was going to give Hatton a painful lesson, so did everyone else.

It's not just about Hopkins, Nard hasn't faced anyone as young, big and powerful as Taylor arguably ever in his career. Taylor has decent basic skills and a very good jab, better than Bernard's in my opinion.

Hopkins hasn't had to fight at a really hard pace for a long time, in part because he negates his opponent's attempts to force the pace, but Taylor isn't one of the last wave of ageing middleweights, nor is he a blown up welterweight, he's a boiled down 168 lber with serious power from what I've seen, quick hands and enough of a boxing brain and skills to make a fight of it.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 13 Jul 2005, 08:00

Who are you picking as your selection for Maxboxing James? Also, how did you end up writing for them?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Jul 2005, 08:18

I'm just mulling it over. I want to pick Taylor, but feel he just isn't quite ready for even an ageing Hopkins, but Bernard hasn't fought someone as quick and powerful as that probably ever in his career.

I used to write for Boxinginlasvegas.com, also for boxing-central.com, then wrote for eastsideboxing.com. I emailed Doug Fischer and told him who I had been writing for, and he said he'd seen my stuff before, and invited me to be one of their correspondents, the rest is history.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 13 Jul 2005, 08:23

Well done with that James, always like seeing the British updates on there. Would be nice to see them more often but then maybe there isn't always a lot of material for you to write on.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Jul 2005, 08:47

don't get much time these days, work longer hours now, also a lot of the British fights don't mean much to an American audience.

I used to do a lot more on upcoming British talent who were below world level, but just don't have the time any more.