Typical?

[Jeff Thomas]

Boxing monthly, the big question

Sergio Martinez:Would you have made that fight for Darren barker at this stage?

Tommy Gilmour: Yes

Adam Booth: Yes

Frank W: no because he'll get beat. I just hope theyre getting a truckload of money. Some promoters make these overseas fights as sources of TV income. Did the people behind Mathew macklin or Ryan Rhodes really think they'd win? Same will happen to Antony crolla. If i handled barker I'd be looking at the macklin fight. Mathews coming off a good performance in Germany. Promoted right that could be massive.

Now obviously Frank is tremendous at what he does, as fine a record builder as one could wish for if your a talented fighter signed to him; but from a fans point of view what would I rather see macklin and barker against the best in the world, or each other?

Sitting in that Liverpool arena the other night watching Murray and Mitchell duke it out in front of rows of empty seats I couldn't help but feel slightly disappointed with the attendance. The arena was around half full; I couldn't help but wonder why a bill which seemed so certain to deliver excitement (not fw fault a couple of fights were a little disappointing) would be so poorly supported especially in a town as boxing wise as liverpool.

Is it just me or do boxing promoters seem to really miss what fans are looking for? Relevant fights, progression and excitement. I'm sure many a fan would rather see their favourite fighters fail at the top level then build a huge record of non descript wins and then be beaten when a skilled foreigner or well prepared fighter fails to read the script. Even macklin-barker has little interest for me at the moment.

I don't see how it could be massive?! Macklin surely will be desperate for rematch and for barker nothing is more massive then the linear championship of the world against an occasionally vulnerable light middleweight.

It can't be denied that Frank has delivered some of the biggest and best nights of uk boxing in the modern era but I just wonder wether he and other promoters have lost touch with what the fans want to see?!

They surely cant argue that only the hardcore fans like ourselves want to see significant matches; they always empty seats are a perfect indication that boxing as a spectacle is losing it's appeal to the masses.

Why then, would Tyson furys fight gain such high viewing figures on a pretty poorly advertised show? (if you don't watch channel five)

Maybe it's sky's fault, maybe there are tons of reasons- but UFC continues to gain popularity whilst boxing struggles.

Thoughts?

[Solis]

Wonder how much chance he gave Lockett and Jennings.

[DavidPayne]

How much chance did he give Esham Pickering v Martinez?

Sure that was a FW show, forgive me if I am incorrect.

I see his point; and lets be honest here, FW is about earning money for his fighter and himself for calculated risk.

If Barker is done in 3 rounds he will know his limitations and so will his ticket buying support.

FW is all about selling a trip to the top not necessarily getting there quick and staying there or coming back down.

Hatton and Calzaghe earned well from low-rent fights at home with the odds stacked in their favour. Is that a bad summary for a manager/promoter?

Of course as purer boxing fans, we just want entertainment and the best fights available. The two agendas are often parallel rather than overlapping.

[Scottrf]

Murray-Mitchell was free on Sky. That has to kill attendances.

I thought the exact same thing about the piece in BM. But I think Frank could be right here. Barker-Macklin was the best matchmaking in terms of where he is in his career, but Barker wasn't able to get it. Although you could argue that would be a lot of risk for not much reward. This seems like a cash out, can't see him winning. But it shouldn't do too much damage and he can come back.

[MightyWarrior]

Typical sour grapes from W*rren as usual. he seems to forget he sent Andy Holligan over for what was maybe the toughest ask of any British fighter, taking on JC Chavez in Mexico in front of a home crowd of 50,000.

[hitman_hatton1]

Typical sour grapes from W*rren as usual. he seems to forget he sent Andy Holligan over for what was maybe the toughest ask of any British fighter, taking on JC Chavez in Mexico in front of a home crowd of 50,000.

holding out for a sturm fight would have been the best option.

but barker has nothing to lose here.

martinez is expected to box his head off.

[Josh1111]

I like FW less and less the more he talks. The more Matchroom and Hatton push their fighters and take risks highlights how FW wants to pave an easy way to a title with boring fights.

[Deserter]

empty seats are a perfect indication that boxing as a spectacle is losing it's appeal to the masses.

One of the biggest issues for me is that boxing promoters can't seem to grasp that a live event has to be an experience and it's not enough to rely on the core product while neglecting other areas.
Do you think everyone who goes to Aintree, for example, is a hardcore horse racing fan? Do you think the numbers attending Take That's tour would be the same if it was just the five of them on stage with microphones?
The reality is that in this day and age, those live events that are not just surviving, but thriving, are those who've worked out they have to create an experience for the attendees and that extends to every aspect. I've been to a live UFC event, and the main event fights were boring, but the investment in the A/V and the infrastructure was second-to-none so it was still an amazing night out. By contrast, as much as I love boxing I've had some shocking experiences. For example I paid good money for outer ringside seats at Cardiff ice Rink for Calzaghe against Mger M (can't even begin to remember how to spell his surname!), but the view was crap, and there was zero added value in terms of big screens, good sound system, decent programmes, food & beverage etc, etc, etc.
There's a real lack of investment in the product and a reliance on the core proposition alone to shift tickets and that's just short-sighted and can alienate potential non-hardcore attendees.

[Scottrf]

Especially when you are offered a better view on TV Deserter, and without the risk of buying tickets for the inevitable pullouts.

When you factor in transport, parking, tickets, food, programmes, it's very expensive, and I'm not sure value for money.

[leforge]

empty seats are a perfect indication that boxing as a spectacle is losing it's appeal to the masses.

One of the biggest issues for me is that boxing promoters can't seem to grasp that a live event has to be an experience and it's not enough to rely on the core product while neglecting other areas.
Do you think everyone who goes to Aintree, for example, is a hardcore horse racing fan? Do you think the numbers attending Take That's tour would be the same if it was just the five of them on stage with microphones?
The reality is that in this day and age, those live events that are not just surviving, but thriving, are those who've worked out they have to create an experience for the attendees and that extends to every aspect. I've been to a live UFC event, and the main event fights were boring, but the investment in the A/V and the infrastructure was second-to-none so it was still an amazing night out. By contrast, as much as I love boxing I've had some shocking experiences. For example I paid good money for outer ringside seats at Cardiff ice Rink for Calzaghe against Mger M (can't even begin to remember how to spell his surname!), but the view was crap, and there was zero added value in terms of big screens, good sound system, decent programmes, food & beverage etc, etc, etc.
There's a real lack of investment in the product and a reliance on the core proposition alone to shift tickets and that's just short-sighted and can alienate potential non-hardcore attendees.

Also lack of competitive fights I am sure have caused viewing figures on sky to fall. Boxing needs to have competitive fights not complete mismatches like the Burns v Cook fiasco we had the other week.

[Jeff Thomas]

empty seats are a perfect indication that boxing as a spectacle is losing it's appeal to the masses.

One of the biggest issues for me is that boxing promoters can't seem to grasp that a live event has to be an experience and it's not enough to rely on the core product while neglecting other areas.
Do you think everyone who goes to Aintree, for example, is a hardcore horse racing fan? Do you think the numbers attending Take That's tour would be the same if it was just the five of them on stage with microphones?
The reality is that in this day and age, those live events that are not just surviving, but thriving, are those who've worked out they have to create an experience for the attendees and that extends to every aspect. I've been to a live UFC event, and the main event fights were boring, but the investment in the A/V and the infrastructure was second-to-none so it was still an amazing night out. By contrast, as much as I love boxing I've had some shocking experiences. For example I paid good money for outer ringside seats at Cardiff ice Rink for Calzaghe against Mger M (can't even begin to remember how to spell his surname!), but the view was crap, and there was zero added value in terms of big screens, good sound system, decent programmes, food & beverage etc, etc, etc.
There's a real lack of investment in the product and a reliance on the core proposition alone to shift tickets and that's just short-sighted and can alienate potential non-hardcore attendees.

Totally agree, people turn up in there thousands to watch f8cking darts! Here we are with the most incredible sport in the world and it's turned into a poor spectacle by lack of care.

So in short matchmaking, lack of customer service and planning are ruining the experience; all things that could easily be fixed with consideration !

[Wake up call]

Hey don't knock darts Jeff. Darts rocks.

[Old bones Ian]

Maybe it was the fact that the Mitchell v Murray fight was moved from London, how many fans had already got tickets for that, and when its moved to Liverpool, they thought sod it i can't afford train and hotel as well.

Plus there was a rumour that the fight was going to be scrapped altogether (not true in the end).

I think Warren took the pee out of alot of loyal fans there, and they voted with their feet.

[dewipowell]

Swings and roundabouts.

[leforge]

Maybe it was the fact that the Mitchell v Murray fight was moved from London, how many fans had already got tickets for that, and when its moved to Liverpool, they thought sod it i can't afford train and hotel as well.

Plus there was a rumour that the fight was going to be scrapped altogether (not true in the end).

I think Warren took the pee out of alot of loyal fans there, and they voted with their feet.

How were tickets sales in London

[h smithy]

I agree with Frank, I wouldn't even consider putting Barker in with Martinez at this stage, he has other fights out there that he could actually win and make him and his promoter money, possibly even staged his world title fight here in the UK instead of Atlantic City.

we have to remember Frank is running a business, he is out to make as much money as possible for him and his boxers and if that means prolonging the boxers career buy putting them in easier world title fights then so be it, why take the risk if you know that your boxer has no chance.

I know us fans want to see the best fights but we have to remember that a loss can be career ending so you have to make as much as possible as soon as possible, these guys are putting there health at risk.

I'm suprised Baker himself has taken this fight. But when he gets beat where does he go, back to European or even British level!!!!!! or will he quit the sport completely? he seems the kind of guy who's heart isn't truly in the sport. But the best fight for Barker is the Macklin fight.

[Dan Dares]

One of the biggest issues for me is that boxing promoters can't seem to grasp that a live event has to be an experience and it's not enough to rely on the core product while neglecting other areas. Do you think everyone who goes to Aintree, for example, is a hardcore horse racing fan? Do you think the numbers attending Take That's tour would be the same if it was just the five of them on stage with microphones?.

Totally agree. There's loads more they could do to promote to/attract casual boxing fans without breaking the bank.

[Shambles]

I agree with Frank, I wouldn't even consider putting Barker in with Martinez at this stage, he has other fights out there that he could actually win and make him and his promoter money, possibly even staged his world title fight here in the UK instead of Atlantic City.

we have to remember Frank is running a business, he is out to make as much money as possible for him and his boxers and if that means prolonging the boxers career buy putting them in easier world title fights then so be it, why take the risk if you know that your boxer has no chance.

I know us fans want to see the best fights but we have to remember that a loss can be career ending so you have to make as much as possible as soon as possible, these guys are putting there health at risk.

I'm suprised Baker himself has taken this fight. But when he gets beat where does he go, back to European or even British level!!!!!! or will he quit the sport completely? he seems the kind of guy who's heart isn't truly in the sport. But the best fight for Barker is the Macklin fight.

Strange thing to say, why do you think this?

[Jeff Thomas]

Hey don't knock darts Jeff. Darts rocks.

Get outta here

[LeedsLad]

They've got to take it.

Huge opportunity for Barker.

All this ''wait for a weak champion'' crap is annoying, typical Allegedly. Then it's a million wank defences against bums.

[leforge]

They've got to take it.

Huge opportunity for Barker.

All this ''wait for a weak champion'' crap is annoying, typical Allegedly. Then it's a million wank defences against bums.

That mentality has damaged boxing wait for a weak champ or vacant title. Then keep in his house with weak defences!

[dondada]

Swings and roundabouts.

Indeed, these would be a start. And one of those 'test your punching power' machines, maybe a candy floss stand and - above all else - women with hardly any clothes on at all for absolutely no reason.

Communication at shows, especially small hall ones, is absolutely wank. Fans show up, they don't know who is on when, there are big gaps with f**k all to do and no information.

[greenyox3]

The most telling comment for me here was "because he'll get beat". Of course he might get beaten. This is bloody boxing. This risk-averse attitude is detrimental to the sport and takes the p*ss out of the fans IMO. Hey, guess what, Barker MIGHT win as well.

I understand the need to build a fighter's career & fan base, but you can't keep putting boxers through 40-odd fights before they get their big one.

If I were a fighter who was offered a shot at the world title (the actual world title, not the WBU Aluminum belt), and my promoter turned it down because he was scared I'd get beat, I'd be extremely pi*ssed off .

Barker's had 23 fights, and is the British, Commonwealth and European champion. I think he's about as ready as you can get.

[dondada]

The most telling comment for me here was "because he'll get beat". Of course he might get beaten. This is bloody boxing. This risk-averse attitude is detrimental to the sport and takes the p*ss out of the fans IMO. Hey, guess what, Barker MIGHT win as well.

[Adamj1987]

warren needs to take a leaf from spence fearon's hardknocks and do more 50/50 fights at least on the undercard if he still wants to build a cash cow

colin lynes vs Brian rose would a 50/50 fight for me