i thought id re-open it since we havnt heard from everyone, and some peoples opinions could have changed. I wouldd like to hear everyones top 10 heavyweights of all time especially from barry and jaclem.
here is my list:
1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Rocky Marciano
4. Mike Tyson
5. George Foreman
6. Joe Frazier
7. Jack Johnson
8. Larry Holmes
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sonny Liston
Hm: lennox lewis, jersye joe walcott
silkov do u still think joe louis is the 4th greatest heavyweight of all time?? im suprised u rated holmes and johnson ahead of him. i would like to know ur reason for rating louis 4th and not 1st????
TOP TEN HEAVYWIGHTS OF ALL TIME CONTINUED
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
rocky is the only undefeated hevayweight champion. not only that but he defeated better competetion than holmes. walcott and charles were better than any fighter holmes ever beat. archie moore was better than michael spinks. holmes also nearly got beat many times. he could have easily lost to norton, and witherspoon whos not a great heavyweight. he also was nearly kaoeyed by renaldo snipes, and kept his title for a long time by beating on bums like lorenzo zanon and scott frank. he never even bothered to unify the title. holmes racked up defenses over journeyman. WHILE MARCIANO CLEANED OUT THE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION, HOLMES HADNT DONE THAT YET AND WAS EVEN CRITIZED FOR DUCKING CERTIAN FIGHTERS.
when tyson won the title and defended it, we hadnt seen a destructive force and wrecking machine like that ever before. he was just destroying guys that were never knocked out before. holmes may have been 44 but still had a good chin and tyson just took him out. tyson dominated and wiped out the heavyweight division unlike holmes. every top contender was knocked out. tyson in his prime is a top 5 heavyweight and would have beaten most of the top heavyweights of all time. i mean tony tubbs, pinklon thomas, berbick, smith, tucker, williams, spinks, biggs, they were the top contenders and had never been knocked out before. berbick gave holmes a lot tougher go than he did tyson. holmes beat on guys like evangelista, zanon, frank, ledoux, bey, L. rodriguez, cobb, etc all journeyman.
when tyson won the title and defended it, we hadnt seen a destructive force and wrecking machine like that ever before. he was just destroying guys that were never knocked out before. holmes may have been 44 but still had a good chin and tyson just took him out. tyson dominated and wiped out the heavyweight division unlike holmes. every top contender was knocked out. tyson in his prime is a top 5 heavyweight and would have beaten most of the top heavyweights of all time. i mean tony tubbs, pinklon thomas, berbick, smith, tucker, williams, spinks, biggs, they were the top contenders and had never been knocked out before. berbick gave holmes a lot tougher go than he did tyson. holmes beat on guys like evangelista, zanon, frank, ledoux, bey, L. rodriguez, cobb, etc all journeyman.
At there peaks, you may have an arguement. Old Walcott and Charles where no better than Norton, Cooney, Snipes or Shavers.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:rocky is the only undefeated hevayweight champion. not only that but he defeated better competetion than holmes. walcott and charles were better than any fighter holmes ever beat.
archie moore was better than michael spinks.
Based on what?
holmes also nearly got beat many times. he could have easily lost to norton, and witherspoon whos not a great heavyweight. he also was nearly kaoeyed by renaldo snipes, and kept his title for a long time by beating on bums like lorenzo zanon and scott frank. he never even bothered to unify the title. holmes racked up defenses over journeyman. WHILE MARCIANO CLEANED OUT THE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION, HOLMES HADNT DONE THAT YET AND WAS EVEN CRITIZED FOR DUCKING CERTIAN FIGHTERS.
How many defences did Rocky make? Who was Don Cockel? What was the average age of a rocky challenger?
when tyson won the title and defended it, we hadnt seen a destructive force and wrecking machine like that ever before. he was just destroying guys that were never knocked out before.
What does that prove other than he hit harder than holmes, which we know already?
This is a overall rating, not a power-based one.
.tyson dominated and wiped out the heavyweight division unlike holmes. every top contender was knocked out. tyson in his prime is a top 5 heavyweight and would have beaten most of the top heavyweights of all time
bar Buster Douglus and Evander Holyfield.
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Rory McCloskey
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: 29 Jun 2005, 13:11
top ten
heres my top 10......
1)Ali
2)Louis
3)Marciano
4)Dempsey
5)jack johnson
6)larry holmes
7)joe frazier
8)gene tunney
9)ezzard charles
10)sonny liston
1)Ali
2)Louis
3)Marciano
4)Dempsey
5)jack johnson
6)larry holmes
7)joe frazier
8)gene tunney
9)ezzard charles
10)sonny liston
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
walcott was still in his prime for the first fight. it was one year AFTER HE WON THE TITLE. SO THAT SHOWS WALCOTT STILL HAD FIGHT IN HIM, AND WE DIDNT KNOW HE WAS GOING TO FIGHT ONE OF HIS BEST FIGHTS AGAINST MARCIANO. and charles had a lot of motivation for that fight for it was his last chance to earn the respect he truellu deserved and his preformance against marciano earned it. the way charles fought that night, he was otugh to beat, he looked like his old form when he first won the title.
charles and walcott when they fought marciano were better than all the challengers holmes beat.
i would take archie moore over micheal spinks. moore was the best finisher in history and smart fighter who could dish it out and take it as well as counter and box with his crab style.
marciano BEAT THE BEST CHALLENGERS AVAILABLE. KNOCKED OUT WLACOTT IN ONE, ROLAND LA STARZA WAS A DECENT CONTENDER AND MARCIANO KNOCKED HIM OUT, HE BEAT BRITISH CHAMP COCKELL, AND HAD A WAR WITH EZZARD, BEFORE KNOCKING HIM OUT IN A REMATCH. WHEN MOORE OUTCLASSED NINO VALDEZ, MOORE WAS CLALING FOR THE MATCH AND THE MATCH WAS PRETTY HYPED. MARCIANO WAS 32 AND SEEMED TO BE FADING BUT HE TRIANED HARD AND BATTERED MOORE TO A 9TH ROUND KNOCKOUT.
who was left for him to fight?? ok he could have beat the hell out of a young young patterson, tommy jackkson, valdez, and bob baker. would that give u any more respect for him???? HE BEAT THE BEST AVALIABLE AND KNEW IT WAS THE RIGHT TIME TO QUIT. HE DIDNT HAVE IT ANYMORE. HE WAS LOSING HIS FIRE. HE HAD PROVEN EVERYTHING.
HOLMES BOASTED HIS RECORD UP BY BEATING LOTS OF JOURNEYMAN BUMS. I WOULDNT CALL THAT TRUE DEFENSES.
charles and walcott when they fought marciano were better than all the challengers holmes beat.
i would take archie moore over micheal spinks. moore was the best finisher in history and smart fighter who could dish it out and take it as well as counter and box with his crab style.
marciano BEAT THE BEST CHALLENGERS AVAILABLE. KNOCKED OUT WLACOTT IN ONE, ROLAND LA STARZA WAS A DECENT CONTENDER AND MARCIANO KNOCKED HIM OUT, HE BEAT BRITISH CHAMP COCKELL, AND HAD A WAR WITH EZZARD, BEFORE KNOCKING HIM OUT IN A REMATCH. WHEN MOORE OUTCLASSED NINO VALDEZ, MOORE WAS CLALING FOR THE MATCH AND THE MATCH WAS PRETTY HYPED. MARCIANO WAS 32 AND SEEMED TO BE FADING BUT HE TRIANED HARD AND BATTERED MOORE TO A 9TH ROUND KNOCKOUT.
who was left for him to fight?? ok he could have beat the hell out of a young young patterson, tommy jackkson, valdez, and bob baker. would that give u any more respect for him???? HE BEAT THE BEST AVALIABLE AND KNEW IT WAS THE RIGHT TIME TO QUIT. HE DIDNT HAVE IT ANYMORE. HE WAS LOSING HIS FIRE. HE HAD PROVEN EVERYTHING.
HOLMES BOASTED HIS RECORD UP BY BEATING LOTS OF JOURNEYMAN BUMS. I WOULDNT CALL THAT TRUE DEFENSES.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
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thunderfromdownunder
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: 15 May 2005, 06:55
this is always fun..
1. muhammad ali, (Hes not called the greatest for nothin ya know, in his prime before the 3 year layoff he would have beaten any heavyweight of any era, he had it all, great hand speed power and exellent footwork would have made most people look like fools.
2.Mike Tysonhave to agree with b.buster here, a prime mike tyson was an awsome sight. during his later years he just relied on strenght, but in the 80's we saw much better movement and speed. its such a shame how his life turned out though, he would have been so much better off if Cus was still with us and don king never got a hold off him
3Marciano cant really argue with 49-0, but he never faced anyone quite like the first two on this list, still a great champ
4. Joe Loius i notice a lot of people have him number 1, not sure why, im not saying hes no good but i just think ali would have had it over him. pitty the way he ended his career, as a 37 year old getting beat down. but hey same thing happend to Ali, tyson, Hoyfeild etc...
4. Lennox Lewisbeat some people are suprised to see this man so high up on my list, or even on the list at all. just take a look at the record, he beat some good fighters, Tua, Rahmann, Holfeild Tyson blah blah (i know mike and evander were old then but so was Lennox!) but like tyson he did get a fright when someone really stood up to him(Klitschko)
5.Big George probaly my personal favorite HW of all time, so great to watch. so strong. its so awsome that he was able to come back and win a second Hw title at age 45 or something, Go George
6.Evander Holyfeild what a warrior this man was, the last man to beat tyson with anything left. 4 time world champion and a lot of heart
i just wish he would retire now.
all this writting is making my head hurt so heres the rest in no paticular order
jack johnson
sonny liston
joe frazier
1. muhammad ali, (Hes not called the greatest for nothin ya know, in his prime before the 3 year layoff he would have beaten any heavyweight of any era, he had it all, great hand speed power and exellent footwork would have made most people look like fools.
2.Mike Tysonhave to agree with b.buster here, a prime mike tyson was an awsome sight. during his later years he just relied on strenght, but in the 80's we saw much better movement and speed. its such a shame how his life turned out though, he would have been so much better off if Cus was still with us and don king never got a hold off him
3Marciano cant really argue with 49-0, but he never faced anyone quite like the first two on this list, still a great champ
4. Joe Loius i notice a lot of people have him number 1, not sure why, im not saying hes no good but i just think ali would have had it over him. pitty the way he ended his career, as a 37 year old getting beat down. but hey same thing happend to Ali, tyson, Hoyfeild etc...
4. Lennox Lewisbeat some people are suprised to see this man so high up on my list, or even on the list at all. just take a look at the record, he beat some good fighters, Tua, Rahmann, Holfeild Tyson blah blah (i know mike and evander were old then but so was Lennox!) but like tyson he did get a fright when someone really stood up to him(Klitschko)
5.Big George probaly my personal favorite HW of all time, so great to watch. so strong. its so awsome that he was able to come back and win a second Hw title at age 45 or something, Go George
6.Evander Holyfeild what a warrior this man was, the last man to beat tyson with anything left. 4 time world champion and a lot of heart
i just wish he would retire now.all this writting is making my head hurt so heres the rest in no paticular order
jack johnson
sonny liston
joe frazier
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Ambling Alp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3627
- Joined: 15 Jul 2005, 22:31
1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Foreman
4. Johnson
5. Frazier
6. Holmes
7. Tunney
8. Marciano
9. Bowe
10. Holyfield
HM - Liston, Lewis, Dempsey,Tyson,Jeffries
Tunney is the hardest for me to judge because he didn't have many fights as a heavyweight, so I almost didn't include him. Bowe is also difficult to rate since he didn't fight either Lewis or Tyson.
I based on their "body of work". You can pick a few bad performances out of anyone's career and say that they weren't really that good. You also point out a few impressive fights out of many fighter's careers and say they are the best.
2. Louis
3. Foreman
4. Johnson
5. Frazier
6. Holmes
7. Tunney
8. Marciano
9. Bowe
10. Holyfield
HM - Liston, Lewis, Dempsey,Tyson,Jeffries
Tunney is the hardest for me to judge because he didn't have many fights as a heavyweight, so I almost didn't include him. Bowe is also difficult to rate since he didn't fight either Lewis or Tyson.
I based on their "body of work". You can pick a few bad performances out of anyone's career and say that they weren't really that good. You also point out a few impressive fights out of many fighter's careers and say they are the best.
This is what Brockton had.
1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Rocky Marciano
4. Mike Tyson
5. George Foreman
6. Joe Frazier
7. Jack Johnson
8. Larry Holmes
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sonny Liston
I think most people agree on the guys in the top 15 anyway, it is just the order they pick them.
1. Joe Louis (25 in a row, steps down to serve in the military or it would be 40 in a row) I think Ali would beat him in the same way Billy Conn was doing it only Ali wouldn't be stupid enough to get drawn into a slugfest so, but I still think Joe is the best heavy of all time.
2. Muhamed Ali as long as he boxes, he outboxes any fighter of any era in this weight division. He ruled in the best heavyweight era and beat a destroyer to win his belt. Maybe he should be number one, but sometimes he just didn't look that great. I think great competition and odds that were not in his favor brought out his best. Like I said earlier, I think he beats Joe Louis, but because he lost his title a few times I can't rate him number 1. He too lost some of his prime because of his refusal to go into the army or he would have held that title for a few more years and Frazier may have never taken it from him.
3. Rocky Marciano. The only one that went undefeated. He beat a washed up Joe Louis but that Joe Louis was still at top 5 guy in the world and those top 5 guys could win a title in nearly any era. I think most of the guys on this list would beat him from a skill point but from a heart standpoint and the ability to take and dish out punishment he would be hard to top.
4. Larry Holmes beat a washed Ali then ruled the division for a long time before Spinks took the title. I think he was a smooth boxer and in his prime he could get off the canvass and box your ass off. I still don't think a young holmes beats a prime Tyson or prime Ali though. I do think he would beat a young Foreman by outboxing him and frustrating him with his jab. I put him ahead of Tyson just because Larry held the belt longer.
5. Mike Tyson. Nobody cleaned out the division and brought life back to it like he did.
6-10 in no particular order (George Foreman, Jack Dempsey, Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield)
I think Evanders heart warrior spirit would carry him to wins over Tyson, Foreman, Dempsey, and possibly Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano. Tyson, Dempsey and Foreman were bullies and Evander wouldn't back down or go down therefore he would negate the fear factor they brought to the ring. Once they figured it out they would give up and get knocked out (young foreman). The thing about Louis and Marciano is they were both warriors and wouldn't give up. I think a Holyfield vs Marciano fight would be the most entertaining heavyweight fight one could ever think of and think it could go either way. Joe Louis in his prime would beat either of them though.
1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Rocky Marciano
4. Mike Tyson
5. George Foreman
6. Joe Frazier
7. Jack Johnson
8. Larry Holmes
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sonny Liston
I think most people agree on the guys in the top 15 anyway, it is just the order they pick them.
1. Joe Louis (25 in a row, steps down to serve in the military or it would be 40 in a row) I think Ali would beat him in the same way Billy Conn was doing it only Ali wouldn't be stupid enough to get drawn into a slugfest so, but I still think Joe is the best heavy of all time.
2. Muhamed Ali as long as he boxes, he outboxes any fighter of any era in this weight division. He ruled in the best heavyweight era and beat a destroyer to win his belt. Maybe he should be number one, but sometimes he just didn't look that great. I think great competition and odds that were not in his favor brought out his best. Like I said earlier, I think he beats Joe Louis, but because he lost his title a few times I can't rate him number 1. He too lost some of his prime because of his refusal to go into the army or he would have held that title for a few more years and Frazier may have never taken it from him.
3. Rocky Marciano. The only one that went undefeated. He beat a washed up Joe Louis but that Joe Louis was still at top 5 guy in the world and those top 5 guys could win a title in nearly any era. I think most of the guys on this list would beat him from a skill point but from a heart standpoint and the ability to take and dish out punishment he would be hard to top.
4. Larry Holmes beat a washed Ali then ruled the division for a long time before Spinks took the title. I think he was a smooth boxer and in his prime he could get off the canvass and box your ass off. I still don't think a young holmes beats a prime Tyson or prime Ali though. I do think he would beat a young Foreman by outboxing him and frustrating him with his jab. I put him ahead of Tyson just because Larry held the belt longer.
5. Mike Tyson. Nobody cleaned out the division and brought life back to it like he did.
6-10 in no particular order (George Foreman, Jack Dempsey, Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield)
I think Evanders heart warrior spirit would carry him to wins over Tyson, Foreman, Dempsey, and possibly Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano. Tyson, Dempsey and Foreman were bullies and Evander wouldn't back down or go down therefore he would negate the fear factor they brought to the ring. Once they figured it out they would give up and get knocked out (young foreman). The thing about Louis and Marciano is they were both warriors and wouldn't give up. I think a Holyfield vs Marciano fight would be the most entertaining heavyweight fight one could ever think of and think it could go either way. Joe Louis in his prime would beat either of them though.