Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Rick Farris]

Original main Street Gym, Los Angeles, Ca.

Great picture.
I understand this gym burned down in 1951.
Looks like it had once been a theatre, like the one we knew across the street.
Nice looking gym, wish I'd have seen it. Can you imagine all the greats that trained here?

[kikibalt]

Great fighters back in the early '50's

Stole this from another site

[Rick Farris]

Great fighters back in the early '50's

Stole this from another site

How simple it was . . .

8 weight classes - 8 undisputed world champions.
80 "Top 10" contenders.
The rest are on their "way up" or "way down"

And about Manuel Ortiz . . .

Looking at the bantam ratings I see Manuel Ortiz is #3, under champ Vic Toweel.
Toweel had taken Ortiz's crown earlier that year by decision in South Africa.
After that, Ortiz never weighed less than 124 lbs. for a match and most around lightweight.
He weighed 117 1/2 losing Toweel, and five months later weighed 131 when he fought Jackie McCoy at the Hollywood Legion.
He beat McCoy, but Jackie gave him a good fight for ten rounds. He then lose to Eddie Chavez and Lauro Salas at lightweight.
His career and best days as a champion were over.
Hap Navarro was always amazed how Ortiz could go up and down in weight, mainly due to improper conditioning, but still pull out a win.
Truly one of the greatest champions in boxing history, yet unheard of by most of today's so-called PFP authorities.
However, thanks to the guys who have contributed to this forum, his legend is alive and well here.
So much great history on Ortiz from our good friend, Hap!

[CNorkusJr]

Great fighters back in the early '50's

Stole this from another site

Thank You Frank.Great post.
You hit right on the head Rick-8 Classes and many deep that many ranked at 10 can do good battle with anyone else ranked ahead of him.
While I looked over the Lt Heavy names, I cant help but think that many of them moved up to heavy sooner or later which added to the depth of heavies for awhile.
Of course if a fighter is young and in his prime,he had a consistancy of keeping his weight down to fight in a certain bracket lower than heavy,but like most persons, age and the good life could add weight to push you up to the next bracket,if you want to try to take on those guys. Food for thought, when Archie Moore fought my father in 1958 San Fran-Archie weighed in about 196 lbs. My father actually was less than Archie for that one, Archie easily handled the extra weight and his aging process.Archie was sort of a aberration. What adds to his greatness is that he could fight at 190+ for several years than go back to 174 and fight Lt-Heavy titles, than go back up to 190+ and fight at his late age. Amazing.
Nardico as you can see did not add weight well. Nor did LaMotta.

As I watch the young kids today, I watch closely how many of the better fighters handle weight changes. Khan is getting bigger and the talk already is Mayweather and him, Pacman too is another I expect to go up if he stays around for another couple years.
Few fighters out of the lighter weights dont push longevity in their careers like they used too. No reason with the money they make anyway.

Side note:Lee Oma was a very underrated fighter I thought. He died penniless here by us here on Long Island, and a few oldtimers chipped in to bury him in a modest grave to keep him out of paupers field.

[Rick Farris]

Great fighters back in the early '50's

Stole this from another site

Thank You Frank.Great post.
You hit right on the head Rick-8 Classes and many deep that many ranked at 10 can do good battle with anyone else ranked ahead of him.
While I looked over the Lt Heavy names, I cant help but think that many of them moved up to heavy sooner or later which added to the depth of heavies for awhile.
Of course if a fighter is young and in his prime,he had a consistancy of keeping his weight down to fight in a certain bracket lower than heavy,but like most persons, age and the good life could add weight to push you up to the next bracket,if you want to try to take on those guys. Food for thought, when Archie Moore fought my father in 1958 San Fran-Archie weighed in about 196 lbs. My father actually was less than Archie for that one, Archie easily handled the extra weight and his aging process.
Nardico as you can see did not. Nor did LaMotta.

As I watch the young kids today, I watch closely how many of the better fighters handle weight changes. Khan is getting bigger and the talk already is Mayweather and him, Pacman too is another I expect to go up if he stays around for another couple years.
Few fighters out of the lighter weights dont push longevity in their careers like they used too. No reason with the money they make anyway.

Side note:Lee Oma was a very underrated fighter I thought. He died penniless here by us here on Long Island, and a few oldtimers chipped in to bury him in a modest grave to keep him out of paupers field.

Charlie- Khan will surely move up but Pac cannot and will not. Manny has to force feed himself to make 144, he puts it on and burns it off daily. Manny walks around lighter than 140, and would be best at 135. Alex Arriza has a hard time keeping the weight on Pac. Manny started out as the world flyweight champion. He's been stretched enough weight wise. Glad to see him finally get to fight somebody his size next time out. I still smile when I think of the former flyweight champ embarrassing a Mexican embarrassment in Antonio Margarito, and of course every other welter he's faced. Same smile came to my face when I watched him punch out Oscar until he finished on his stool.

[CNorkusJr]

Original main Street Gym, Los Angeles, Ca.

Great picture.
I understand this gym burned down in 1951.
Looks like it had once been a theatre, like the one we knew across the street.
Nice looking gym, wish I'd have seen it. Can you imagine all the greats that trained here?

Frank -You post really great stuff. Thank You very much. I like old gym shots. And Rick is right, how many greats passed through its doors.
Is this the gym that was on the 5th floor that Johnny Flores worked?

[CNorkusJr]

Charlie- Khan will surely move up but Pac cannot and will not. Manny has to force feed himself to make 144, he puts it on and burns it off daily. Manny walks around lighter than 140, and would be best at 135. Alex Arriza has a hard time keeping the weight on Pac. Manny started out as the world flyweight champion. He's been stretched enough weight wise. Glas to see him finally get to fight somebody his size next time out.

Thanks Rick, I was unaware of that. I appreciate that info.

Charlie Norkus Jr

[Rick Farris]

Original main Street Gym, Los Angeles, Ca.

Great picture.
I understand this gym burned down in 1951.
Looks like it had once been a theatre, like the one we knew across the street.
Nice looking gym, wish I'd have seen it. Can you imagine all the greats that trained here?

Frank -You post really great stuff. Thank You very much. I like old gym shots. And Rick is right, how many greats passed through its doors.
Is this the gym that was on the 5th floor that Johnny Flores worked?

This burned down in 1951. Flores opened the fifth floor of the former L.A. City Jail at Lincoln Heights as a boxing gym in 1972.
It was only just recently closed for good.

[bennie]

Great fighters back in the early '50's

Stole this from another site

You know the champs and almost everyone in the top 10. Today, you don't even know the champs.

[kikibalt]

Original main Street Gym, Los Angeles, Ca.

Great picture.
I understand this gym burned down in 1951.
Looks like it had once been a theatre, like the one we knew across the street.
Nice looking gym, wish I'd have seen it. Can you imagine all the greats that trained here?

Frank -You post really great stuff. Thank You very much. I like old gym shots. And Rick is right, how many greats passed through its doors.
Is this the gym that was on the 5th floor that Johnny Flores worked?

Thanks Charlie....

[kikibalt]

Bob Nestell knocking down Lee Ramage (1937) at the Olympic Auditorium. Nestell and Ramage and their managers,
Pop Foster and Gus Wilson respectively, were considered the "Big Four" of California boxing.

[Rick Farris]

Finest City has had its moments, but it’s no boxing bastion


No clear or cloudy or punch-drunk thinker has called San Diego the Bastion of Boxing. The fight game’s canvas here has been spotty, painted with ham-and-eggers. Bruce Henderson vs. City Hall doesn’t really count. We all know what you can’t fight, anyway.

The magnificent Archie Moore was not born in San Diego — only a higher authority really knows when or where — but he lived here, lived here a long time. Archie took part in 208 real bouts, winning 185 of them (131 by knockout, a record that will stand until Saint Peter signals last call), and fought 35 times in his adopted city, but only four times after World War II up to his 1962 retirement.

The biggest fight here took place on March 31, 1973, in the then-Sports Arena, when Ken Norton, who was local because he once was a Camp Pendleton Marine, decisioned Muhammad Ali and famously broke that famous jaw in the process.

We have had some good fighters come through here, a few really good. No immortals. The place to watch them was at the extinct Coliseum downtown, and if you ever went there, you know it wasn’t Madison Square Garden.

We have had some fine boxing writers, though: Tom Cushman, Jerry Magee, Bill Center, Jack Murphy (who nicknamed Moore “The Old Mongoose”). But my favorite local boxing story involves Rick Smith, then a writer for the Evening Tribune in the early 1960s, who went on to become publicist for the NBA’s Warriors and the NFL’s Chargers and Rams.

Rick, now retired and our ranking local sports historian, was assigned to cover a card at the Coliseum, featuring local favorite Charlie “Bad News” Austin against some No. 10 can. Charlie won by decision, and following the only fight he covered in his career, Smith interviewed the winner in the showers, asking Austin: “News, when are you going to give it up and retire?”

To which Charlie answered: “When people start going upside my head.”

The following morning, the late Earl Keller, working the Tribune sports desk, saw the quote and couldn’t believe anyone talked like Charlie. He changed it to: “When I start getting numerous head beatings.”

That tells you about all you need to know about San Diego and the sweet science.

Since then, fight promoters have put fights all over town, from skating rinks to hotels. One who never gives up, who loves the game, is Bobby DePhilippis, who has managed some top local fighters (James “The Heat” Kinchen, Irving Mitchell and Jesus Salud, among others) and promoted local bouts here for the past 30 years.

DePhilippis has a five-fight card coming up Friday night at 7:30 in the Four Points Sheraton on Aero Drive, and he knows full well he isn’t going to make any money from the 800-seat venue. But Bobby D, who owns four Filippi’s Pizza Grottos here and one in Cabo, isn’t in it for the cash.

He loves the fight game, loves the people and the atmosphere. And there’s something to that. There’s no business like the boxing business, even if it isn’t close to what it used to be not so long ago.

“The sport isn’t dying, because of guys like Manny Pacquiao,” he says. “I hear there are 27 Mexican champions. Mexico and the Philippines bring in the people. But what the game really needs is an American heavyweight champion.”

It’s never been big-time here, but DePhilippis knows that. He hasn’t gone pie in the sky. He knows the limitations in San Diego.

“I started 30 years ago at the Palisade Gardens skating rink; we even had an event at the Lakeside rodeo grounds,” DePhilippis says. “There’s just not a lot of money to be made locally. I made some early on, when I had Kinchen and Salud, but now I just hope to break even.

“With San Diego, it’s the venue. We’ve never had great venues. We did OK at the El Cortez (International Room), where we only had to pay $1,500 rent, but that’s not there anymore. The old Coliseum downtown was the perfect size, 2,500 seats, but the parking sucked and it was an old crappy building.”

So now Bobby D goes to big fights, watches a lot of fights and puts on a show now and then.

“Back in the late ’80s, we were putting on 10 shows a year here,” he says. “We’ll continue to do it, maybe four shows, max, a year. It will be great if we can find a bigger venue and get some sponsors so we can do more.

“We just need a bigger venue to sell more tickets. We’re looking at the Hilton Bayfront (downtown); they have some big ballrooms. My friend owns this hotel (Sheraton) so we get free rent. Even then, we’re lucky to break even.

“I do it because it’s great fun and there are great people. I’ve been all over the world. But if it wasn’t for the pizza business, I’d be broke.”

Pizza guy. Now there’s a business that isn’t dying.

[kikibalt]

Harry Gordon,51, boxing manager, committed suicide, March 28, 1954.
At a banquet. Gordon in left foreground".

[kikibalt]

CBHOF 2006


(L-to-R)
Tony Baltazar,Louie Loy Sr.,Frank Baltazar and Frankie Baltazar.
To Frankie's left, his mom and my wife (In white) Connie.
In front Tony's daughter Kakojua.

[kikibalt]

Ceferino Garcia and trainer Johnny Villaflor...Circa 1938

[kikibalt]

Sonny Liston

[kikibalt]

Gerry Cooney and Victor Valle

[Rick Farris]

Ceferino Garcia and trainer Johnny Villaflor...Circa 1938

Johnny Villafor worked my corner twice with Mel Epstein in 1972.
In addition to working out at Main street Gym on weekends when I was a kid, I'd also sit in the bleachers or the ring apron and watch, talk with older gym regulars such as Villaflor, Duke Holloway, and many more. By just sitting quiet & listening, I would learn about things that happened before my time. Great stories from those who lived them. I've learned a lot more in the years since, but I wish I could just sit down and interview all of them on camera. Today I know the questions to ask. And we all appreciate the answers.

One thing about Ceferino Garcia & Henry Armstrong . . .
When the three-title champ challenged Garcia for the middleweight title, the bout was declared a draw. However, Armstrong had already defeated Garcia in a welterweight title defense.

[kikibalt]

Muhammad Ali and Sylvester Stallone

[CNorkusJr]

Finest City has had its moments, but it’s no boxing bastion


No clear or cloudy or punch-drunk thinker has called San Diego the Bastion of Boxing. The fight game’s canvas here has been spotty, painted with ham-and-eggers. Bruce Henderson vs. City Hall doesn’t really count. We all know what you can’t fight, anyway.

The magnificent Archie Moore was not born in San Diego — only a higher authority really knows when or where — but he lived here, lived here a long time. Archie took part in 208 real bouts, winning 185 of them (131 by knockout, a record that will stand until Saint Peter signals last call), and fought 35 times in his adopted city, but only four times after World War II up to his 1962 retirement.

The biggest fight here took place on March 31, 1973, in the then-Sports Arena, when Ken Norton, who was local because he once was a Camp Pendleton Marine, decisioned Muhammad Ali and famously broke that famous jaw in the process.

We have had some good fighters come through here, a few really good. No immortals. The place to watch them was at the extinct Coliseum downtown, and if you ever went there, you know it wasn’t Madison Square Garden.

We have had some fine boxing writers, though: Tom Cushman, Jerry Magee, Bill Center, Jack Murphy (who nicknamed Moore “The Old Mongoose”). But my favorite local boxing story involves Rick Smith, then a writer for the Evening Tribune in the early 1960s, who went on to become publicist for the NBA’s Warriors and the NFL’s Chargers and Rams.

Rick, now retired and our ranking local sports historian, was assigned to cover a card at the Coliseum, featuring local favorite Charlie “Bad News” Austin against some No. 10 can. Charlie won by decision, and following the only fight he covered in his career, Smith interviewed the winner in the showers, asking Austin: “News, when are you going to give it up and retire?”

To which Charlie answered: “When people start going upside my head.”

The following morning, the late Earl Keller, working the Tribune sports desk, saw the quote and couldn’t believe anyone talked like Charlie. He changed it to: “When I start getting numerous head beatings.”

That tells you about all you need to know about San Diego and the sweet science.

Since then, fight promoters have put fights all over town, from skating rinks to hotels. One who never gives up, who loves the game, is Bobby DePhilippis, who has managed some top local fighters (James “The Heat” Kinchen, Irving Mitchell and Jesus Salud, among others) and promoted local bouts here for the past 30 years.

DePhilippis has a five-fight card coming up Friday night at 7:30 in the Four Points Sheraton on Aero Drive, and he knows full well he isn’t going to make any money from the 800-seat venue. But Bobby D, who owns four Filippi’s Pizza Grottos here and one in Cabo, isn’t in it for the cash.

He loves the fight game, loves the people and the atmosphere. And there’s something to that. There’s no business like the boxing business, even if it isn’t close to what it used to be not so long ago.

“The sport isn’t dying, because of guys like Manny Pacquiao,” he says. “I hear there are 27 Mexican champions. Mexico and the Philippines bring in the people. But what the game really needs is an American heavyweight champion.”

It’s never been big-time here, but DePhilippis knows that. He hasn’t gone pie in the sky. He knows the limitations in San Diego.

“I started 30 years ago at the Palisade Gardens skating rink; we even had an event at the Lakeside rodeo grounds,” DePhilippis says. “There’s just not a lot of money to be made locally. I made some early on, when I had Kinchen and Salud, but now I just hope to break even.

“With San Diego, it’s the venue. We’ve never had great venues. We did OK at the El Cortez (International Room), where we only had to pay $1,500 rent, but that’s not there anymore. The old Coliseum downtown was the perfect size, 2,500 seats, but the parking sucked and it was an old crappy building.”

So now Bobby D goes to big fights, watches a lot of fights and puts on a show now and then.

“Back in the late ’80s, we were putting on 10 shows a year here,” he says. “We’ll continue to do it, maybe four shows, max, a year. It will be great if we can find a bigger venue and get some sponsors so we can do more.

“We just need a bigger venue to sell more tickets. We’re looking at the Hilton Bayfront (downtown); they have some big ballrooms. My friend owns this hotel (Sheraton) so we get free rent. Even then, we’re lucky to break even.

“I do it because it’s great fun and there are great people. I’ve been all over the world. But if it wasn’t for the pizza business, I’d be broke.”

Pizza guy. Now there’s a business that isn’t dying.

Nice article on San Diego. Sounds like its getting a bad rap.I'm not well learned on its Boxing History, but I do know most of The US Naval, and US Marine Championships were held there over the years-as well as a few great fights like Norton-Ali listed above.
Charlie Powell avenged his loss to my father in San Diego and I can tell you that my father loved the city itself.
Over the years, my father always mentioned to me that if I go out west for a vacation, make sure I make San Francisco AND San Diego as "must see" cities.
Like Tony Bennett serenaded famously,"I left My Heart in San Francisco....". my father talked non-stop of the city's beauty and attributes. The same with San Diego. I never heard him speak so kindly of the many other cities he fought in,like those two.
I been to San Fran, and agree with my father wholeheartedly, San Diego I'll save for another time, and I know that LA will be right on par with them both.
It's the company you are with and greet that makes any journey an enjoyable experience.

[kikibalt]

Muhammad Ali and Ken Norton

[Randyman]

For Rick: Dwight Hawkins at the CBHOF 2011

[Randyman]

Muhammad Ali and Sylvester Stallone

I was watching the Oscars that night. I tink Stallone was really caught off guard and was a little nervous when Ali approached him. Great photos Frank!

[Randyman]

CBHOF 2006


(L-to-R)
Tony Baltazar,Louie Loy Sr.,Frank Baltazar and Frankie Baltazar.
To Frankie's left, his mom and my wife (In white) Connie.
In front Tony's daughter Kakojua.

The Baltazars: A great West Coast Boxing family and damned good people!

[kikibalt]

For Rick: Dwight Hawkins at the CBHOF 2011