Hatton's all time British rating.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Jul 2005, 18:21

We have discussed if Hatton win was the greatest of all time but we haven't discussed where would Hatton stand in the All time list (for British fighters) if he decided to retire now.

I mean, how many of our British world champions have beaten the #1 fighter in the devision. Since more than one belt has come in I would say (off the top of my head) only one - Lloyd Honeghun.

Not even Naz ever beat the number 1 fighter in his weight, although beat enough in the top 5 to acquire the number 1 status. I thought that Luis Espinosa was the number 1 featherweight at the time of Hamed's fight with Robinson.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 13 Jul 2005, 18:27

Ricky beat 1 top fighter in Zoo - very impressive but that alone can't get him on the all-time lists. Zoo was linear but theres good reason he was stripped - he was semi-retired. He was old and hence lacking in stamina. Ricky has still done a great job.

However where would you rank Gonzalez if he retired after he beat DM or Tarver on beat Roy Jones. Both those fighters were past their best and Zoo probably was too (and yes Zoo said he was in his prime - didnt Tyson say that a while back too)

He also seems to be avoiding slicksters with a vengence.

states · Post by **states** » 13 Jul 2005, 18:35

Hatton ranks beneath a lot of guys right now. As P-N says, it's one win, albeit a great one. However..... I can see him making a real name for himself in the next 3 years. Benn and Eubank are both very highly regarded in the all time British list, and Hatton has the time to achieve more than either of them. His win over Tszyu is a better single win than either of those two achieved, in many people's eyes.

There's a lot of very good fighters out there he could meet, and in Mayweather, one great one. I think he has the ability to beat them all, on any given night, although he could well lose a few as well. He could build one hell of a legacy for himself.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Jul 2005, 19:30

states wrote: Benn and Eubank are both very highly regarded in the all time British list, and Hatton has the time to achieve more than either of them. His win over Tszyu is a better single win than either of those two achieved, in many people's eyes.

That was my point, hasn't Hatton already achieved more than either of these two irrespective of what happens in the future.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 13 Jul 2005, 21:35

stujones wrote:
states wrote: Benn and Eubank are both very highly regarded in the all time British list, and Hatton has the time to achieve more than either of them. His win over Tszyu is a better single win than either of those two achieved, in many people's eyes.
That was my point, hasn't Hatton already achieved more than either of these two irrespective of what happens in the future.

It's a shame people always leave out Steve Collins

pasty_spud · Post by **pasty_spud** » 14 Jul 2005, 01:23

thats cos steve collins is irish......

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 14 Jul 2005, 01:29

I thought Irish was British too, well UK'ish :)

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 14 Jul 2005, 03:38

lvlarc_uk wrote:I thought Irish was British too, well UK'ish :)

No, Steve Collins wasn't even a bit UK'ish. Be careful with comments like that if you're ever over in Ireland as you could end up getting a slap in the mouth for it.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 14 Jul 2005, 03:40

Calling Steve Collins UK'ish is like calling a French fighter UK'ish on the basis that France is also close to the UK.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 14 Jul 2005, 03:44

But Ireland IS part of UK , well Northern Ireland is anyway

I take it he's not from up north.........

And comparing France is a joke as France has never been and never will be part of Great Britain.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 14 Jul 2005, 03:53

It's quite hard to judge if Hatton should be above Eubank and Benn already. Those guys were near the top of the game for longer and have some great wins on their records in Barkley, McClennan, Watson, Rocchigiani etc although none as good as Tszyu.
Also people will always judge them too highly because of the interest their rivalry generated. You usually see them ranked above Honeyghan in p4p lists but neither of them beat a fighter as good as Curry.
If Hatton quit tomorrow would he be above Curry or McGuigan? As it is I think you just have to wait and see after Hatton retires.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 14 Jul 2005, 03:57

If Hatton went for the Mayweather fight and won then I'd expect that would put him at the top of all the time British list.

And I feel only that fight would, but if he ducks Mayweather people will lose ALOT of respect for him, he has so many options at the moment. Hope he chooses wisely :)

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 14 Jul 2005, 04:05

lvlarc_uk wrote:But Ireland IS part of UK , well Northern Ireland is anyway I take it he's not from up north.........

And comparing France is a joke as France has never been and never will be part of Great Britain.

He's not from the North. Don't act like a tosser. Comparing it to France is the same. Neither of them are part of the UK and never will be. Just because the Republic of Ireland was part of the UK a hundred years ago, it doesn't make anybody born in Ireland UK'ish.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 14 Jul 2005, 04:12

johnswan1 wrote:
lvlarc_uk wrote:But Ireland IS part of UK , well Northern Ireland is anyway I take it he's not from up north.........

And comparing France is a joke as France has never been and never will be part of Great Britain.
He's not from the North. Don't act like a tosser. Comparing it to France is the same. Neither of them are part of the UK and never will be. Just because the Republic of Ireland was part of the UK a hundred years ago, it doesn't make anybody born in Ireland UK'ish.

lol Chill, I thought Collins may of been from Northern Ireland

Somebody needs to get laid

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 14 Jul 2005, 04:42

Yeah you. I don't know why you even said it was a shame Steve Collins is always overlooked. It was clear you didn't even know much about him. The guy is from Dublin, speaks like a total Dubliner (an accent as distinguishable from the North of Ireland as a Scouse or even Scottish accent is to a London accent) called himself the Celtic Warrior and had Shamrocks shaved into his head and wore the Tri-Colour and then you turn around and assume he is from the UK?

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 14 Jul 2005, 04:47

Wow, what happened to simple responses, like "No, he's not from Northern Ireland he is from EIRE"

OBVIOUSLY I dont know much about him, but I did see him beat Eubank and Benn thats why I mentioned him.

Now go back to bed

bigynzing · Post by **bigynzing** » 14 Jul 2005, 05:19

stujones wrote:We have discussed if Hatton win was the greatest of all time but we haven't discussed where would Hatton stand in the All time list (for British fighters) if he decided to retire now.

I mean, how many of our British world champions have beaten the #1 fighter in the devision. Since more than one belt has come in I would say (off the top of my head) only one - Lloyd Honeghun.

Not even Naz ever beat the number 1 fighter in his weight, although beat enough in the top 5 to acquire the number 1 status. I thought that Luis Espinosa was the number 1 featherweight at the time of Hamed's fight with Robinson.

What about Lennox....?????theres not many(if any) UK fighters who have cemented thier place in the all-time top ten in the division.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 14 Jul 2005, 07:37

I said it was off the top of my head, forgot arguably the greatest of all the modern brits in Lennox.

I don't think if Hatton retired now he would be ranked above Honeyghun anyway, because Honeyghun beat possibly an even higher ranked (in the 80's P4P bracket) fighter in Curry and beat a very decent future champion in Blocker. He also showed a lot of balls in the Vacca rematch.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 14 Jul 2005, 07:38

Hatton doesn't crack the top 10 for me yet.

The Tszyu win was impressive, but Naseem, Eubank, Benn, Lewis, McGuigan, Honeyghan to name but a few, all had success over a longer period, against better opposition. That's before we even get to old timers.

Hatton needs to defend the belt against some proper fighters first, and if he unified the division, then he gets near the top of that list, but only if he does it by beating a genuine champ, not knocking off Maussa and then getting a vacant belt.

Naseem never beat Barrera, but Barrera wasn't 35 either and Barrera has gone on to win again and is still at the top of his game it would appear.

computerrank · Post by **computerrank** » 14 Jul 2005, 12:07

Just for fun from BoxRec's All Time Ratings - average rating of 12 best defeated opponents - list cut at minimum 1,400 points:

active boxers bold

Lennox Lewis 1,685 1989 - 2003 41-2-1
Naseem Hamed 1,636 1992 - 2002 36-1-0
Dave Charnley 1,617 1954 - 1964 48-12-1
Jackie (Kid) Berg 1,604 1924 - 1945 157-26-9
Henry Cooper 1,581 1954 - 1971 40-14-1
Randy Turpin 1,572 1946 - 1964 66-8-1
Alan Minter 1,567 1972 - 1981 39-9-0
Lloyd Honeyghan 1,563 1980 - 1995 43-5-0
Brian Curvis 1,561 1959 - 1966 37-4-0
Ted 'Kid' Lewis 1,542 1909 - 1929 230-42-19

Mick Leahy 1,532 1956 - 1965 46-19-7
Ken Buchanan 1,527 1965 - 1982 61-8-0
Maurice Cullen 1,522 1959 - 1970 45-8-2
Terry Downes 1,520 1957 - 1964 35-9-0
Len Harvey 1,514 1920 - 1942 112-13-9
Wally Swift 1,510 1957 - 1969 68-17-3
Bunny Sterling 1,500 1966 - 1977 35-18-4
Chris Eubank 1,486 1985 - 1998 45-5-2
Johnny Cooke 1,486 1960 - 1971 52-34-7
John (Cowboy) McCormack 1,485 1957 - 1966 38-7-0

Tony Sibson 1,485 1976 - 1988 55-7-1
Freddie Welsh 1,485 1905 - 1922 104-25-12
Howard Winstone 1,481 1959 - 1968 61-6-0
Brian London 1,480 1955 - 1970 37-20-1
Herol Graham 1,477 1978 - 1998 48-6-0
Maurice Hope 1,471 1973 - 1982 30-4-1
Bermondsey Billy Wells 1,469 1919 - 1932 44-18-8
Joe Erskine 1,458 1954 - 1964 45-8-1
John Conteh 1,456 1971 - 1980 34-4-1
Don Cockell 1,453 1946 - 1956 65-14-1

Freddie Mills 1,450 1936 - 1950 76-18-7
John H Stracey 1,450 1969 - 1978 45-5-1
Ricky Hatton 1,448 1997 - 2005 39-0-0
Nigel Benn 1,445 1987 - 1996 42-5-1
Frank Bruno 1,442 1982 - 1996 40-5-0
Wally Thom 1,434 1949 - 1956 42-11-1
Nel Tarleton 1,434 1926 - 1945 117-20-8
Phil Edwards 1,428 1952 - 1962 60-8-3
Kirkland Laing 1,428 1975 - 1994 43-12-1
Jock McAvoy 1,427 1927 - 1945 133-14-1

Jim Watt 1,425 1968 - 1981 38-8-0
Joe Calzaghe 1,424 1993 - 2005 39-0-0
Gary Jacobs 1,424 1985 - 1997 45-8-0
Jack London 1,416 1931 - 1949 95-40-5
Jack Bodell 1,411 1962 - 1972 58-13-0
Freddie Gilroy 1,411 1957 - 1962 28-3-0
Frank Johnson 1,408 1946 - 1957 47-11-0
Alex Buxton 1,407 1942 - 1963 78-43-4
Pat McAteer 1,407 1952 - 1958 49-6-2
Harry Scott 1,404 1960 - 1973 39-34-6

Chic Calderwood 1,403 1957 - 1966 44-9-1
Dave Crowley 1,400 1929 - 1946 128-41-11

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 14 Jul 2005, 12:15

Stupid rankings to say the least. Henry Cooper gets in there despite never winning a title or even beating a former world champ.

Bladder · Post by **Bladder** » 14 Jul 2005, 12:31

states wrote: Benn and Eubank are both very highly regarded in the all time British list, and Hatton has the time to achieve more than either of them. His win over Tszyu is a better single win than either of those two achieved, in many people's eyes.

I can't rate Hatton's win over Tszyu as being better than Benn's win over McClellan.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 14 Jul 2005, 13:27

I think it is, Bladder. McLellan as good as he was had never fought at Super Middleweight before.

Tszyu was the best Light Welter in the world and an all time great.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 14 Jul 2005, 13:33

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Hatton doesn't crack the top 10 for me yet.

The Tszyu win was impressive, but Naseem, Eubank, Benn, Lewis, McGuigan, Honeyghan to name but a few, all had success over a longer period, against better opposition. That's before we even get to old timers.

Hatton needs to defend the belt against some proper fighters first, and if he unified the division, then he gets near the top of that list, but only if he does it by beating a genuine champ, not knocking off Maussa and then getting a vacant belt.

Naseem never beat Barrera, but Barrera wasn't 35 either and Barrera has gone on to win again and is still at the top of his game it would appear.

Scratch Lewis and Honeyghun off your list (cause I agree there) and I have to ask who for the others.

Luis Espinosa was ranked #1 at Featherweight in boxing monthly prior to Hamed's win over Robinson (then ranked #6) somehow that win brought him to the number #1 position without having beaten the #1 fighter.

Eubank = who? Rochigianni (was he ever top 5).

Benn = McLellan, great Middleweight never fought at Super Middle.

McGuigan = Lots of similarities between Pedroza and Tszyu but Pedroza was never as good as Nelson.

So who is better than the #1 fighter in the devision. Has any of these in the list with the exception of Lewis, Naz (due to partial unification) and Honeyghun ever got the #1 ranking that 90% of forum members think Hatton has got. I don't think they have.

And I'm sorry but Vivian Harris was a geniune world title, he beat some good guys to get that title/defend it. Maussa (as bad as he is) beat Harris fair and square, he is a geniune champion.

Neri · Post by **Neri** » 14 Jul 2005, 13:43

Im sure Hatton is heading to greatness but for me he isnt there just yet just because he has won one major fight. Maintaining his No 1 spot for many years and defending it against worthy foes is to be done imo

Hatton's all time British rating.

Hatton's all time British rating.

Re: Hatton's all time British rating.