USA Olympic Trials - Men's Boxing

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Not seeing the scores live really has changed amateurs because the last round has been fiercely competed instead of a boxer just running to keep the lead which is what it was in the past. As far as making the bouts more enjoyable and entertainment, I give the new ESS two thumbs up!!! I love it.

Yeah, Cullen! Amen on the no longer running syndrome and thanks for the positive kudos for the new ESS. I've noticed that there are very close scores and more tie breakers than in the past. I'm just hoping this means the bouts have been good and competitive.

Hope to see you at PAL!

Yes, there have been many competitive bouts and both boxers have had an opportunity to pull out the match. It's really kept the crowd on edge listening for the final scores to be announced. Today will be some of the best boxing of the tournament. Yes, hope to see you at the PALs. Are they moving it to Cleveland?

[boxmel]

I get that but if a boxer wins the team trial why isn't that boxer given all the chances allowed to qualify for the Olympics? Why does a US Olympic Team member have to lose an opportunity to qualify for the Olympics after only one attempt (World Championship)?

I'll start out by saying I may be wrong (and I can always check with Joe Zanders for accuracy) but the way it's always been is that there are three opportunities for our boxers to get to the Olympics. Obviously the Worlds are the first opportunity. However, as far as I know, if a boxer doesn't qualify via the Worlds he has two other chances in the Americas Continental tournaments.

So, if next year's US National Champion is given an opportunity,

If this were to be the case, then why even have the Olympic Team Trials? Just pick the winners of the U.S. Championships. I don't know what the deadline is to turn in the names of the delegation, but I think next year's U.S. Championships would be too late.

then qualify in the America's cup which won't even have the top world boxers there because many of them would have qualified for the Olympics already.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Every country has the chance to qualify at the Worlds. If they don't make it there, they also have to qualify through Continental events. Remember, each Continent has a set number of participants it is allowed.

Why not give that chance to the the US Team member who has been training for the past year (at the point of the US Nationals and the following qualifier?).

Because it doesn't work out logistically or time wise?

The only thing that I can think is that we have to have an alternate qualify

Alternates never take the place of a boxer who has already qualified and is part of the country's delegation. We have taken our runner ups in the past as sparring partners but would never make a substitution. Once the names have been stated and credentials given, there is no substitution.

Another question is the age for Olympic qualification was based on Sept. 2011 I believe allowing 16 years olds to participate in the PAL this year,

Yep.

so if USAB is saying that now US National Champions from next year will be allowed to compete to qualify for the Olympics in the America's Cup ---

What is the America's Cup and why are boxer other than the already decided Olympic team getting a chance to qualify? Makes absolutely no sense.

So those boxers would be only 15 years old now, right and they may potentially be able to technically be in the London Olympics?

MUST be 17 years old to compete internationally. No exceptions.

What do you think?

See my above comments - but please remember I obviously don't have all the information. AIBA hasn't published the Olympic qualifying process yet so I have nothing I can refer to. But it makes absolutely no sense at all to have boxers still qualifying next year. Let's say Rau'shee wins the Olympic Team Trials at 114 Lbs. this week. Let's say the 2012 U.S. Champion is another boxer who now, supposedly, qualifies for the Olympics. Who would you pick? Would you have a box off? You can't send two entries in the same weight class.

Yes, hope to see you at the PALs. Are they moving it to Cleveland?

Toledo, Ohio - October 2nd through 8th.

[Dennis]

Mel unlike in the past few Olympics, there is only going to be one America's Qualifier instead of two. This may be due to the reduced number of male boxers who will compete in the Olympics. The numbers were reduced to allow for women's boxing at the Olympics. For 2012, there will only be 16 boxers each in the heavy and super-heavy classes. So it is going to be harder than in the past to qualify for the Olympics.

[Dennis]

It is true that USA Boxing is only sending the Olympic Trials Champions to the World Championships. If they don't get qualified, then they have to win the 2012 U.S. Championships to be eligible to go to the America's Qualifier.

[Dennis]

The DQ's have not been due to things in the ring, but weight and medical issues.

[JMac]

I heard from a coach I spoke to this afternoon that winners of these trials must qualify for Olympics through World Championships (Top8) and if they fail to, then the winners of next years USA's get to try via the America's Cup. If this is true, then why are these called the Olympic Trials? Someone please confirm or shoot this down.

Yep they told us all the same thing day one and the excuse was to keep the boxers active or something but of course there was an outcry afterwards with the same exact thing you just said "why are these called the olympic trials" "what are we fighting for then?" I hope that rule eventually changes though...

I was hoping that wasn't true. I just don't get it. I just don't get it. Am I the only one that feels like this is the beyond disappointing and unfair?

This has to be one of the most stupid ideas I ever heard. This is the OLYMPIC Trials to determine the Olympic TEAM. There were a bunch of qualifiers to be able to box in the Olympic Trials. The competition in the World Championships is going to be a whole lot different than the continental tournaments especially with Cuba competing. Remember, they did not compete in the '07 worlds in Chicago because it was in USA. The 2011 worlds will be in Baku, Azerbaijan and Cuba will go there. If you go by recent results for the way USA has been doing in international tournaments, it will be hard for most of the next Olympic team to qualify at the worlds. They will need the continental tournaments to qualify and most likely the Cubans will all have qualified at the worlds so we won’t have to worry about them.
Many boxers who do not make this Olympic team through the trials will turn pro so you better keep this team together, let them get seasoned at the worlds and then use that experience in the continental tournaments.
Also, if USAB continues with this stupid idea, you’ll see lots of law suits that USAB does not need. I wonder if the USOC has bought off on this idea. If they did, they are just as stupid.

[boxmel]

Mel unlike in the past few Olympics, there is only going to be one America's Qualifier instead of two. This may be due to the reduced number of male boxers who will compete in the Olympics. The numbers were reduced to allow for women's boxing at the Olympics. For 2012, there will only be 16 boxers each in the heavy and super-heavy classes. So it is going to be harder than in the past to qualify for the Olympics.

Thanks for that info, Dennis. Makes perfectly good sense. And, yes, it's going to be extremely difficult to qualify.

It is true that USA Boxing is only sending the Olympic Trials Champions to the World Championships. If they don't get qualified, then they have to win the 2012 U.S. Championships to be eligible to go to the America's Qualifier.

So this entire past week has been a qualifier for the World Championships, NOT to make the US Olympic team. I would say that USAB has totally misrepresented this event and, in so doing, opened up a very large can of worms. Winning this week and being given a second chance in the double elimination format only means you go to the Worlds. That sucks. And, if you don't qualify at the Worlds (do you know how many in each weight class qualify there?), you have to start all over again and WIN the 2012 Championships. Just how in the hell does this insure we send our very best boxers? Think USAB is putting itself in a position to be sued. Dennis, as a coach AND an attorney, how do YOU feel about this?

[T Duquette]

If they are the best boxers for the job then they will win the USA's in March and then be able to go to the other qualifier. Lets not forget that we had a few boxers 4 years ago who made the team at a weight that they could no longer comforatably hold a year later.

[teasy24]

If they are the best boxers for the job then they will win the USA's in March and then be able to go to the other qualifier. Lets not forget that we had a few boxers 4 years ago who made the team at a weight that they could no longer comforatably hold a year later.

I agree here. Obviously this is the Olympic Trials and the winners have the first shot at a spot in the Olympics. If they do not qualify, in order to be good enough to advance to the Olympics they should be able to beat their own country early next year. If they can't they don't get a shot at advancing, but instead another person will.

Since we only had 8 or so qualify the past 2 olympics, I think what USAB is trying to do is make sure the best get the opportunity to advance, and by giving them a shot at the Americas Qualifier they think they will do that.

Do I agree with this, I can't say so right now, I don't know because I haven't seen it play out yet. An example could be that a top USA fighter injures himself tonight so another guy ends up going to the World Championships. They lose, should the top USA fighter be able to go to the next qualifiers by having a shot at redemption early next year? I understand most would say "no" because THIS IS THE OLYMPICS TRIALS, but it's not a less important tournament because the winners here still get the first shot at going to the Olympics when they head to Baku.

Some fighters, say Tommy Duquette here, he thinks he won both fights, you can't argue with his opinion because he lost by a point and lost by a tie breaker I believe. Mike Reed, some people don't agree with either decision. Well, now they get another chance if they can make it to the USA's next year. I just wonder how many coaches and fighters would be pleased with this if they are the ones the end up benefiting in the end, because I can guarantee you some will. As close as these fights are, the winners here won't all qualify in Baku, and they won't all win the USA's next year. USAB better be ready for what they just let happen.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

If they are the best boxers for the job then they will win the USA's in March and then be able to go to the other qualifier. Lets not forget that we had a few boxers 4 years ago who made the team at a weight that they could no longer comforatably hold a year later.

Yeah, but the US Nationals isn't double elimination. The whole point of the double elimination is that it helps ensure our best boxers are on the team by allowing one loss in the tournament.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

What is the America's Cup and why are boxer other than the already decided Olympic team getting a chance to qualify? Makes absolutely no sense.

I thought that was one of the qualifiers but maybe I should just use the generic term of Olympic qualifier whatever that ends up being for our US boxers.

[teasy24]

If they are the best boxers for the job then they will win the USA's in March and then be able to go to the other qualifier. Lets not forget that we had a few boxers 4 years ago who made the team at a weight that they could no longer comforatably hold a year later.

Yeah, but the US Nationals isn't double elimination. The whole point of the double elimination is that it helps ensure our best boxers are on the team by allowing one loss in the tournament.

I also agree here which is why I'm on the fence about it all!

[NYboxing]

From American Boxing Confederation

Signature of the Contracts for the Pre Olympic Qualifyings

Tuesday, August 02, 2011 :: 7:43 PM ASTANA, KAZ: The contracts among AIBA and the Venue Federations for the Pre Olympic Games were signed...

ASTANA, KAZ: The contracts among AIBA and the Venue Federations for the Pre-Olympic Games, were signed in a simple ceremony that took place in Astana during the EC meeting of AIBA. Each continent will hold a qualifying competition for the Olympic Games to complete the selection of their representatives that can´t qualify in the Elite World Championship in Baku.

The eliminatory in America will take place in Rio de Janeiro from April 11th to 20th, 2012.

[T Duquette]

If they are the best boxers for the job then they will win the USA's in March and then be able to go to the other qualifier. Lets not forget that we had a few boxers 4 years ago who made the team at a weight that they could no longer comforatably hold a year later.

Yeah, but the US Nationals isn't double elimination. The whole point of the double elimination is that it helps ensure our best boxers are on the team by allowing one loss in the tournament.

I see your point of view but that is not always the case. Pedro Sosa is about to win this at 141 and he certainly isnt our best boxer at 141. I obviously feel Im better, but I also feel that Mike Reed, Semajay, and Duran are better than him. Just compare his international fights with Reeds. Has Pedro ever won an international fight? Reed has won all of his from what I understand; and hes beaten some top competition.

And if Midget doesnt win this tournament then that will just be a shame. He fought in my ring right before I fought and Ill tell you, there is NO way he should have lost.

Im obviously very bitter right now, but Im speaking the truth.

[boxmel]

I see your point of view but that is not always the case. Pedro Sosa is about to win this at 141 and he certainly isnt our best boxer at 141

I'm going to have to disagree with you. First of all, it's only your opinion that Sosa isn't the best at 141. Secondly, given the double elimination format of these Trials, I would say that whoever wins is THE best in the weight class. If not, they wouldn't be in Mobile. ;;-) And, for the first time in USAB history - if Sosa, or whoever, doesn't qualify at the Worlds YOU will get a third chance. It must be pretty frustrating to lose both of your bouts by one point. The scoring is the closest I've seen in many years.

[NYAmateur90]

I feel where Duquette is coming from...sometimes its just the luck of the draw as in who you get matched up with...although allowing one loss does give you a chance to redeem yourself but losing both fights by very little has to be disheartening...I'm suprised to see Mike Reed going home already...

Some of us here in New York don't feel Sosa is the best at 141 in New York Metro but hey...he qualified, got a break on day one, and won his fight against Semajay...I thought Mike Reed would have beaten Sosa but the fight didn't happen...letz just see what Sosa does against Jamal Herring who I'm not familiar with...




I definitely wish I was in Mobile to see Spence vs Iman (152) and Browne vs Odom (178)

[DCAmateurBoxing]

And if Midget doesnt win this tournament then that will just be a shame. He fought in my ring right before I fought and Ill tell you, there is NO way he should have lost.

I wasn't there but heard the same thing. He looked sharp yesterday and understand there is no tomorrow. He faces Feliciano tonight and I am with you on having him as my favorite. Of course, I'm biased.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

I feel where Duquette is coming from...sometimes its just the luck of the draw as in who you get matched up with...although allowing one loss does give you a chance to redeem yourself but losing both fights by very little has to be disheartening...I'm suprised to see Mike Reed going home already...

Some of us here in New York don't feel Sosa is the best at 141 in New York Metro but hey...he qualified, got a break on day one, and won his fight against Semajay...I thought Mike Reed would have beaten Sosa but the fight didn't happen...letz just see what Sosa does against Jamal Herring who I'm not familiar with...




I definitely wish I was in Mobile to see Spence vs Iman (152) and Browne vs Odom (178)

Don't forget about Raushee vs. Simpson and Byrd vs. Correa and . . . wait a minute. All the fights tonight are going to be great!!

108lbs. Louie Byrd vs. Eros Correa
114lbs. Rau'shee Warren vs. Shawn Simpson
123lbs. Joseph Diaz Jr. vs. O'Shanique Foster
132lbs. Jose Ramirez vs. Raynell Williams
141lbs. Jamel Herring vs. Pedro Sosa
152lbs. Errol Spence vs. Amir Imam
165lbs. Jesse Hart vs. Antoine Douglas
178lbs. Marcus Browne vs. Jerry Odom
201lbs. Jordan Shimmell vs. Michael Hunter
201+lbs. Cam Thompson vs. Andrew Shepard

[teasy24]

I'm picking Byrd, Warren, Diaz, Ramirez, Sosa, Spence, Hart, Browne, Hunter and Thompson. I also think this is our team in Baku with the exceptions of Browne and Hunter as I think Shabazz and Geffrard come back. It's gonna be entertaining!

[donnellon]

The last 8 qualify at the worlds and the two who lost to the finalists in the last 16 at all weights except heavy and s/heavy. I think it's 6 at these weights(2 losers in the quarters to the finalists) but I'm relying on memory on that part.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Correa def byrd 25-25 (132-131) Louie won 3rd by a lot

[holeymoley99]

I sure hope Mel was tongue in cheek saying whoever wins the weight classes at these trials is the best in the weight class just because it is double elimination. Sure sounds like quite a few bouts have appeared to go to the wrong fighter,more then past Olympic qualifiers in fact. The scoring system will always lend itself to controversy. What would be a more appropiate answer is whoever wins is the best this week under the scoring system we currently have, nothing more nothing less. We could go on all day about bad decisions in amateur boxing the worst is most likely Eric Griffin in the 1992 Olympics, ALL judges had Eric winning the fight but their buttons didnt synch up within 3 seconds so he lost the fight 6-5 despite having 31 more more recorded blows (81-50).

[NYAmateur90]

Hey DCAmateurBoxing are u at the fights???

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Warren won but good job by simpson
Diaz won
Midget won

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Hey DCAmateurBoxing are u at the fights???

Yup