USA Olympic Trials - Men's Boxing

[teasy24]

Siju should be able to beat Odom tomorrow by moving around and picking his shots. Odm is there to be hit, he has to score with him. If he does, judging by the way Browne fought tonight, I'd say Siju beats him.

At 165 Arias looked a lot better coming off of last nights performance. 152 Spence didn't let Imam's speed get the better of him while they were exchanging punches. I saw that the score was 18-12, I thought it should have been a little higher but Spence still won.

I can't believe how Joseph Diaz and Jose Ramirez continue to be ignored, when they haven't lost in forever! These two look great and are in a fight each night, they bring it and are both going to take this tournament if they stay focused.

[teasy24]

There you go NYAm! Lol, Imam looks like a great fighter. If they rematch it will be fun to watch again.

[teasy24]

Do you know if Imam loses any weight? Cut anything to make 152?

[NYAmateur90]

Do you know if Imam loses any weight? Cut anything to make 152?

I doubt it...Amir was at 132 when I first heard about him...moved up to 141 then 152...

He doesn't have the same exposure as other New York fighters because he's from Albany, NY (not New York Metro Area) ...he basically beat the best 152 pounders in New York in the Last Chance Qualifiers...

He's real sharp...I thought the fight would him and Spence would go either way but it sounds like Errol took it pretty clearly...I know Spence has a lot of experience...

[teasy24]

Do you know if Imam loses any weight? Cut anything to make 152?

I doubt it...Amir was at 132 when I first heard about him...moved up to 141 then 152...

He doesn't have the same exposure as other New York fighters because he's from Albany, NY (not New York Metro Area) ...he basically beat the best 152 pounders in New York in the Last Chance Qualifiers...

He's real sharp...I thought the fight would him and Spence would go either way but it sounds like Errol took it pretty clearly...I know Spence has a lot of experience...

Yeah that's the thing. Spence has been fighting 152 since 2008. Back then Amir was a 125 pounder. Reminds me of another NY fighter, though not nearly as big of a switch, but Shemuel Pagan turned open at 119 and ended up going as high as 141 I believe. Maybe 132 but he turned pro close to 140. Anyways, just wondering. He is still the size of these guys, he doesn't look small or anything, I just remember seeing him fight at 125, 132 and so on. Thanks for th info!

Oh and I can't believe Imam doesn't have credit in his home state, I guess Albany fighters aren't known? Well, I tell you what people know him nationally if they don't know him locally lol!

[NYAmateur90]

Yeah that's the thing. Spence has been fighting 152 since 2008. Back then Amir was a 125 pounder. Reminds me of another NY fighter, though not nearly as big of a switch, but Shemuel Pagan turned open at 119 and ended up going as high as 141 I believe. Maybe 132 but he turned pro close to 140. Anyways, just wondering. He is still the size of these guys, he doesn't look small or anything, I just remember seeing him fight at 125, 132 and so on. Thanks for th info!

Oh and I can't believe Imam doesn't have credit in his home state, I guess Albany fighters aren't known? Well, I tell you what people know him nationally if they don't know him locally lol!

My gym knows of him well, due to him defeating one of my gymmates twice lol (once in the Last Chance Qualifiers Finals)...Amir is sharp and looks real calm in there and looks very skilled at countering (from what I've seen)

Yeah Albany, NY is a good ways from what would be considered New York Metro (New York City and Long Island)...Amir and those guys in Upstate New York don't fight in the New York Daily News Golden Gloves...so they don't have the same buzz and attention as Marcus Browne, Pedro Sosa, or other Metro guys get...Amir put himself on the radar though...beating the best 152's in all of New York pretty much...

I think him and Spence will fight again this week...can't see the other 152s beating Amir...but anything is possible in boxing

[teasy24]

Well the only other 152 left is Vasquez. I think he gave a tougher fight to Spence in the first round than Imam did tonight but styles make fights. I think Vasquez will come forward and Imam will use speed to keep Vasquez off balance and keep turning him. I'm going to say Imam wins 22-20, I don't know lol. And yeah NY has two different GG franchises so that makes sense. Another good fighter from outside the Metro is Lavisas Williams. He is 132 pounder.

[NYAmateur90]

Well the only other 152 left is Vasquez. I think he gave a tougher fight to Spence in the first round than Imam did tonight but styles make fights. I think Vasquez will come forward and Imam will use speed to keep Vasquez off balance and keep turning him. I'm going to say Imam wins 22-20, I don't know lol. And yeah NY has two different GG franchises so that makes sense. Another good fighter from outside the Metro is Lavisas Williams. He is 132 pounder.

Yeah I heard of him before too...don't know much about him though...I think Amir has beaten him before

[NYAmateur90]

Wednesday, August 3
108 lbs/winners bracket: Eros Correa, San Jose, Calif., dec. Louie Byrd, Denver, Colo., 25-25 (132-131)
108 lbs/challengers bracket: Santos Vasquez, Sparks, Nev., dec. David Carlton, Cincinnati, Ohio, 26-14
114 lbs/winners bracket: Rau'shee Warren, Cincinnati, Ohio, dec. Shawn Simpson, Chicago, Ill., 34-20
114 lbs/challengers bracket: Emilio Sanchez, Pacoima, Calif., dec. Oscar Cantu, Kingsville, Texas, 38-21
123 lbs/winners bracket: Joseph Diaz Jr., El Monte, Calif., dec. O'Shanique Foster, Orange, Texas, 29-15
123 lbs/challengers bracket: Tramaine Williams, New Haven, Conn., dec. Luis Feliciano, Milwaukee, Wis., 11-6
132 lbs/winners bracket: Jose Ramirez, Avenal, Calif., dec. Raynell Williams, Cleveland, Ohio 18-17
132 lbs/challengers bracket: Toka Kahn Clary, Providence, R.I., dec. Kenneth Sims Jr., 24-19
141 lbs/winners bracket: Jamel Herring, Coram, N.Y., dec. Pedro Sosa, Bronx, N.Y., 14-13
141 lbs/challengers bracket: Duran Caferro, Helena, Mont., dec. George Rincon, Carrollton, Texas, 11-11 (66-56)
152 lbs/winners bracket: Errol Spence, DeSoto, Texas, dec. Amir Imam, Albany, N.Y., 19-12
152 lbs/challengers bracket: Samuel Vasquez, Fort Carson, Colo., dec. Bryant Perrella, Lehigh Acres, Fla., 18-10
165 lbs/winners bracket: Jesse Hart, Philadelphia, Pa., dec. Antoine Douglas, Burke, Va., 14-8
165 lbs/challengers bracket: Luis Arias, dec. Edgar Alvarado Jr., San Bernadino, Calif., 23-12
178 lbs/winners bracket: Marcus Browne, Staten Island, N.Y., dec. Jerry Odom, Bowie, Md., 30-26
178 lbs/challengers bracket: Siju Shabazz, Las Cruces, N.M., dec. Jeffery Spencer, Fort Carson, Colo., 12-10
201 lbs/winners bracket: Michael Hunter, Las Vegas, Nev., dec. Jordan Shimmell, Hudsonville, Mich., 23-8
201 lbs/challengers bracket: Joseph Williams, Bronx, N.Y., dec. Steve Geffrard, Boca Raton, Fla., 19-15
201+ lbs/winners bracket: Lenroy Thompson, Lenexa, Kan., dec. Andrew Shepherd, Fort Carson, Colo., 15-9
201+ lbs/challengers bracket: Laron Mitchell, San Francisco, Calif., dec. Dominic Breazale, Alhambra, Calif., 16-12

At 201- Joseph Williams isn't from the Bronx, he's from Far Rockaway, Queens, New York...

[DCAmateurBoxing]

My thoughts: Byrd and Correa are both really, Correa has won 4 of the last 6 rounds they have fought, but Byrd has clearly won the 3rd round in each fight by a lot of points. Correa didn't have that big of a lead in their fight last month, so Byrd made his comeback and won. This time, he was up by enough to win on tiebreaker. My guess is when they fight again, if Byrd defeats Vasquez, Byrd will have to jump out early and take control of this fight or else Correa is going to win it on points.

The 3rd round was scored 10-8 for Correa. I didn't see it. Louie is focused now so Santos and Correa better be ready. I still like Louie coming out of the challengers bracket.

[teasy24]

I don't agree with that score, but I also don't see how Correa was losing that fight going into the 3rd. Guess either way I still saw it close and it was. I think Byrd will beat Vasquez by 10 points tomorrow night.

[NYAmateur90]

Hey DCAmateurBoxing I sent you a PM on here...hit me back up when u get the chance...

[teasy24]

NYAm90 ... For some reason USA website mess up hometowns a lot. I never understood why.

[NYAmateur90]

NYAm90 ... For some reason USA website mess up hometowns a lot. I never understood why.

Lol yea and they kept calling Louis Cruz "Luis" not a big deal but if it was me I wouldn't like it lol

[teasy24]

Imam has always been Iman until now. If you ever look up his past results it will say Iman lol

[NYAmateur90]

Thursday Bout Sheet

108 lbs: Louie Byrd, Denver, Colo., vs. Santos Vasquez, Sparks, Nev.
114 lbs: Shawn Simpson, Chicago, Ill., vs. Emilio Sanchez, Pacoima, Calif.
123 lbs: O’Shanique Foster, Orange, Texas vs. Tramaine Williams, New Haven, Conn.
132 lbs: Raynell Williams, Cleveland, Ohio vs. Kenneth Sims, Jr., Chicago, Ill.
141 lbs: Jamel Herring, Coram, N.Y., vs. Duran Caferro, Helena, Mont.
152 lbs: Amir Imam, Albany, N.Y., vs. Samuel Vasquez, Fort Carson, Colo.
165 lbs: Antoine Douglas, Burke, Va., vs. Luis Arias, Milwaukee, Wis.
178 lbs: Jerry Odom, Bowie, Md., vs. Siju Shabazz, Las Cruces, N.M.
201 lbs: Jordan Shimmell, Hudsonville, Mich., vs. Joseph Williams, Bronx, N.Y.
201+ lbs: Andrew Shepherd, Fort Carson, Colo., vs. Laron Mitchell, San Francisco, Calif.

[Kolya]

If they are the best boxers for the job then they will win the USA's in March and then be able to go to the other qualifier. Lets not forget that we had a few boxers 4 years ago who made the team at a weight that they could no longer comforatably hold a year later.

Yeah, but the US Nationals isn't double elimination. The whole point of the double elimination is that it helps ensure our best boxers are on the team by allowing one loss in the tournament.

I see your point of view but that is not always the case. Pedro Sosa is about to win this at 141 and he certainly isnt our best boxer at 141. I obviously feel Im better, but I also feel that Mike Reed, Semajay, and Duran are better than him. Just compare his international fights with Reeds. Has Pedro ever won an international fight? Reed has won all of his from what I understand; and hes beaten some top competition.

And if Midget doesnt win this tournament then that will just be a shame. He fought in my ring right before I fought and Ill tell you, there is NO way he should have lost.

Im obviously very bitter right now, but Im speaking the truth.

What makes you say you believe Sosa is about to win 141; when he lost tonight and has to fight Caferro tomorrow, who you also feel is better than Sosa?

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Kolya, where have you been hiding? Congrats on Jr's W. I spoke to him briefly today. Nice guy.

[boxmel]

132 lbs: Raynell Williams, Cleveland, Ohio vs. Kenneth Sims, Jr., Chicago, Ill.

Thought Clary won, not Sims?

141 lbs: Jamel Herring, Coram, N.Y., vs. Duran Caferro, Helena, Mont.

If this is the Challenger's bracket, shouldn't it be Sosa vs. Caferro?

:?? :?? :??

[Jamel]

132 lbs: Raynell Williams, Cleveland, Ohio vs. Kenneth Sims, Jr., Chicago, Ill.

Thought Clary won, not Sims?

141 lbs: Jamel Herring, Coram, N.Y., vs. Duran Caferro, Helena, Mont.

If this is the Challenger's bracket, shouldn't it be Sosa vs. Caferro?

:?? :?? :??

Yep they made an mistake I don't fight until tomorrow

[boxmel]

Yep they made an mistake I don't fight until tomorrow

What! USAB make a mistake?

Good luck, Jamel. And congratulations, too. :)

[T Duquette]

Yeah, but the US Nationals isn't double elimination. The whole point of the double elimination is that it helps ensure our best boxers are on the team by allowing one loss in the tournament.

I see your point of view but that is not always the case. Pedro Sosa is about to win this at 141 and he certainly isnt our best boxer at 141. I obviously feel Im better, but I also feel that Mike Reed, Semajay, and Duran are better than him. Just compare his international fights with Reeds. Has Pedro ever won an international fight? Reed has won all of his from what I understand; and hes beaten some top competition.

And if Midget doesnt win this tournament then that will just be a shame. He fought in my ring right before I fought and Ill tell you, there is NO way he should have lost.

Im obviously very bitter right now, but Im speaking the truth.

What makes you say you believe Sosa is about to win 141; when he lost tonight and has to fight Caferro tomorrow, who you also feel is better than Sosa?

I made that prediction before the results of yesterday came out. I made it based on how the judges seem to favor Sosa very much. I figured it would be hard for somebody to beat him and the judges twice. Different story now.

[Kolya]

Kolya, where have you been hiding? Congrats on Jr's W. I spoke to him briefly today. Nice guy.

Been hiding in Alexandria, actually. I'm really excited for Junior. It's great to see him go so far at the Trials, God knows he's worked hard for long enough.

[T Duquette]

And Im sorry boxmel, I know you sincerely believe that there is no such thing as bias creeping into judging, but to have such a point of view is exceedingly naive; although I do mostly agree with you when you argue with people on here about it. You see it doesnt have to meen that a group of judges collect in a room and conspire to have somebody win. It can simply take the form of an official unconciously favoring a particular athlete because he/she has had past experiences with said athlete (i.e. gone on trips, judged many of their bouts, knows their #1 and believes they should win, etc...).

Ive attached an article that explores unconcious bias in soccor matches. Although it doesnt have much relavence to boxing it shows how these things can sometimes creep in:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 180928.htm

And look at yourself for instance. You are outspokenly against this reload tournament for the Olympic team in March. You dont think that affects your judging in any way. All that it takes is a judge pushing one button 1-5% more than they would push another button, especially with all of these close bouts... Just please dont be biased against me for writing this

[boxmel]

And Im sorry boxmel, I know you sincerely believe that there is no such thing as bias creeping into judging,

I don't think I've ever said there is no bias or "leaning toward one boxer" (polite way of saying cheating). I do know it's much harder to do so on the ESS.

It can simply take the form of an official unconsciously favoring a particular athlete because he/she has had past experiences with said athlete (i.e. gone on trips, judged many of their bouts, knows their #1 and believes they should win, etc...).

Actually, and especially at the Olympic Trials level, I think your above belief is erroneous. One of the things I really like about boxing is that it is not predictable. That is, your #1 can lose in any given bout so you really can't rely on him winning consistently. I believe that most experienced and fair judges also believe this way and don't expect a current #1 to win, no matter what. If you are truly counting punches, there is no way you can favor a particular athlete and I really have trust and faith in the officials at the Trials, most of whom have judged the athletes many times in various events.

And look at yourself for instance. You are outspokenly against this reload tournament for the Olympic team in March. You dont think that affects your judging in any way

I have no clue what point you are trying to make here. Yes, I'm against the way the final team is being picked this year. However, if I were one of the judges, it would NOT affect my judging. There is no way in the world I would ever take out my feelings about a USAB decision against any boxer - ever!

. All that it takes is a judge pushing one button 1-5% more than they would push another button, especially with all of these close bouts...

Please remember that the ESS makes it virtually for a boxer to win with one judge continually pushing the button for said boxer. If the judge's score is higher than the other 4, it will get thrown out, therefore not impacting the outcome at all.

Just please dont be biased against me for writing this

Sheesh - do I really come off as a anti-boxer person? You and I are definitely going to have to meet one of these days. I will be at the PAL in October - maybe there? Seriously, Tommy, you are as entitled to state your opinions as any other member of USAB. I'm glad you aren't afraid to put them out on this forum. Wish more of our athletes were as visible as you. 8) And, as in life, we aren't always going to agree.