All hail John Murray!

[n1ebf]

agree. Mitchell knows how to win fights. He's come through when I thought he might get KO'd b4 - namely against Johanneson and Prescott - fair play - Katsidis is better than both, but then Mitchell is improving along the way too, and who knows.....Katsidis has been in a lot of wars so Mitchell should be at least fresher than him.
It's why Kev Mitchell is one of my favourite boxers.

[Spud]

I thought it was an excellent professional performance by John Murray against a very under-rated guttsy fighter who will give plenty of people problems.

Its now time for "Meaty Mick" to step Murray up - he needs big shows and whats more as a double champion deserves them.

Patience is a virtue for MH fighters.

Eastman, Witter and Froch took a long, long time to make good on their rankings.

Murray should be so sellable. I saw him win that Youth title in about 1976 and he looked ready for pushing on then.

Mr Payne,

Alas I have to eat some humble pie with yourself - what I am getting at is that due to Meaty Mick's present circumstances - John Murray is in my opinion a difficult position.

Murray needs to be pushed on - not only that he should be earning some reasonable money - I am not so sure with Hearn taking his share of the co promotions that are happening at present that there is a lot of money for the likes of Murray - I hope I am wrong.

However - I wish somebody would clarify John Murray's contract position - can he move? - or did winning the European Title tie him in for at least another 18 months with Meaty Mick?

[Counter-puncher]

yes you're missing something.

if he meets a stronger pressure fighter i would think he'd do some boxing.

and if he meets a slick boxer, then he'd probably have a plan to put him under some real pressure.

pressure fighter does not necessarily = slow and limited. he can use his assets to break down, and thus slow down, quicker guys. as to the defense issue, i keep on saying. i've seen mitchell's head swiveled round by shots many times, whereas i've seldom seen it happen to murray.

yes mitchell can box well outside, but we saw that he loses a lot in terms of clean scoring blows when he moves so much. i mean, how many times did he puch short vs prescott, and how many times did he hit arms? i'd answer a lot on both counts.

i agree with wrmc and think Murray's upside will end at European level, meself

[Autobarn]

artful dodger will not beat murray!

[Counter-puncher]

yes you're missing something.

if he meets a stronger pressure fighter i would think he'd do some boxing.

heheheheh. i would call this post, the definition of optimism.

so when Murray meets, say, an escobedo or Casamayor type, he suddenly unveils twinkletoed nimble dancerly footwork. which he's only disdained to use so far, as he is keeping his leonard-esques footwork as a secret weapon.......

mate i think Murray fights straightbacked and relatively immobile because, he's relatively immobile.... i think his options are much more limited than you're making out

[Autobarn]

i'd think he and his team would set, and follow, a game plan appropriate to the style of his opponent. if he has to give ground, shoot out a hard jab and maybe walk an opponent onto some sharp counters, he could do that. for instance vs jon thaxton, murray looked lean and sharp, and wasn't really applying pressure. he was boxing off the back foot and only coming forward if thaxton had been jolted. thaxton would have been awkward to pressure, because it's hard to, say, land those body shots on a short guy who ducks to low.

while the meager fight was waged mostly inside, murray did do some subtle things such as using pivots and sidesteps to set up different angles.

[Counter-puncher]

i'd think he and his team would set, and follow, a game plan appropriate to the style of his opponent. if he has to give ground, shoot out a hard jab and maybe walk an opponent onto some sharp counters, he could do that. murray did do some subtle things such as using pivots and sidesteps to set up different angles .

not sure Murray's footwork and handspeed are up to the job of doing much but fighting the way he does, at any level beyond British, mate.

I still have bad memories of the difficulty he had catching up with the fleetfooted Youssef Al Hamidi- i'm not one of those who says Murray lost that fight (i thought Yousseff won maybe 3rds)- and footwork of that ilk is what's going to give Muz problems at beyond-British level, IMO.

[terminator]

Autobarn= delusional

[DavidPayne]

yes you're missing something.

if he meets a stronger pressure fighter i would think he'd do some boxing.

heheheheh. i would call this post, the definition of optimism.

so when Murray meets, say, an escobedo or Casamayor type, he suddenly unveils twinkletoed nimble dancerly footwork. which he's only disdained to use so far, as he is keeping his leonard-esques footwork as a secret weapon.......

mate i think Murray fights straightbacked and relatively immobile because, he's relatively immobile.... i think his options are much more limited than you're making out

:TU:

I saw him when he fought for the WBC Youth title years ago. He hasn't changed at all as far as I can see. In fact, maybe through being too busy, he's lost a little bit of fizz and become more one-dimensional.

[Counter-puncher]

^^ yes; dare I say, perhaps even a slightly Hatton-esque trajectory (at a lower level)

[whiskey]

I saw him when he fought for the WBC Youth title years ago. He hasn't changed at all as far as I can see. In fact, maybe through being too busy, he's lost a little bit of fizz and become more one-dimensional.

I was there too. At ally pally on the witter undercard.

I remember Murray's face being a total mess, like the elephant man when he sat down in the front row after his fight had finished.

That was at super feather too.

[Autobarn]

Autobarn= delusional

that's stupid, bringing back threads from a year ago to prove a point. are you interested in discussion or petty points scoring? a lot has changed since this thread kicked off - katsidis, after a nice run v escobedo and mitchell, has come close to being a lightweight gatekeeper; mitchell is back in the top 10 and looking at a fight with shit-hot brandon rios, and murray is on the rebound.

murray lost and we'll see how he responds to defeat.

it was a great fight, the type of which was way overdue at this weight in this country. in the lead up to this fight the contest i kept comparing it to, was gomez v arthur. that was a bout in which the guy on the way down had to find something special, and did.

mitchell had to win, and to his credit he did. this is a new chapter in murray's career and we have to see if the loss will make him or break him.

i was frustrated watching the fight, despite both men's bravery and willing. because unlike v mcallister when he kept ripping that body, murray kept measuring mitchell with the left hand to set up rights to the head. it was clear to mitchell that murray was headhunting and trying to find the right (though mitchell did look banged up and some are saying his eardrug had been damaged). murray needed to slow down the faster man, that's what his game is all about and when he swelled up, mitchell was able to pick him apart with that superb left uppercut.

i would love to see a rematch/rivalry develop between these two.

[terminator]

Mitchell will never get past euro level and re:Murray -it's easy to look good against featherfisted Lee McCallister

[Autobarn]

it's actually hard to look good vs a slick spoiler like mcallister, who presents loads of movement.

if murray had got the mitchell of the katsidis fight, murray would have won. this was a far better mitchell. also, if the fight hadn't been moved forward a week, to suit mitchell's weight making - pretty outrageous, to be honest, and too convenient for the then-troubled essex boy - then murray would also have won. mitchell was surely fortunate to get the fight a week later - how many fighters wouldn't fancy having the fight date shifted to suit them physucally? but now murray gets to make changes, corrections, which in the long run could be for the best.

[stujones]

^^ yes; dare I say, perhaps even a slightly Hatton-esque trajectory (at a lower level)

I would disagree, I think John has improved as a fighter - I just think it is all about level's and John's struggles in the said WBC Youth title fight (remember, he would have lost his 0 had it not been for that fringe title), his struggles with Al Hamidi and when he fought in the states against tough journeymen where the signs of a fighter who would fall short at world level.

I think for John to become a pretty dominant European champion for a time signalls a steady positive progression. As the two were coming through he always looked less talented than Mitchell. I went for Murray on the night of the fight, because I thought there was no way Mitchell would be at 100% given his lack of ring time and events making the news in the run up. I thought there was no way Mitchell could have the focus... how wrong was I. It was a 100% Mitchell, and the fight result was no real surprise - infact, I thought John was alot more competitive then I previously thought against a 100% Mitchell.

John could still get wins at world class, although it would have to be the right type of opponent. I do fear though now that John was eventually stopped emphatically we might see the aura, confidence and self-belief gone - and this could have a massive negative impact on how he performs. A telling factor in the fight with Mitchell was his handspeed.... its pretty slow for a solid European level fight, it can be worked on and it needs to be worked on.

People do seem to forget that while Mitchell ended up stopped on his feet after 4 rounds vs Katisdis - that the first 3 rounds Mitchell was boxing his brains off.... Whether Mitchell is world class or not remains to be seen, but he was written off far too quickly after the Katisdis fight.

[DavidPayne]

Don’t write John off just yet. He made a few mistakes in the Mitchell fight, walking in looking to land rather than letting Kevin move, settle and then pop off his three shots, which had been brought up before the fight, and then letting go with his own counters. It meant he got caught coming in, when he was in and on his way out. He can improve on his performance.

The guy can’t win. It has been a pretty dismal British boxing season, a lot of hot air and little behind it in some cases, yet the guy takes this all-British fight without thinking twice, puts his WBC ranking on the line, refuses to talk Kevin down or trash him and then goes out and helps to produce a FOTY candidate that came along at just the right time, hardly the crime of the century.

No crime. Only plaudits from me for taking the fight. And sure, he can come again, but it would be remiss not to point to his apparent weaknesses in this contest. He almost made the breakthrough in the 2nd or 3rd from memory but didn't quite land that last fight changer.

However, he has lacked sparkle over his last 2-3 fights in my opinion, may be wrong, just my opinion.

I like John as a fighter, think he's very capable, and the loss needn't kill him off. But certainly he needs to be refreshed for his return if he is to reach the horizons he's been projected as capable of.

[stujones]

Don’t write John off just yet. He made a few mistakes in the Mitchell fight, walking in looking to land rather than letting Kevin move, settle and then pop off his three shots, which had been brought up before the fight, and then letting go with his own counters. It meant he got caught coming in, when he was in and on his way out. He can improve on his performance.

The guy can’t win. It has been a pretty dismal British boxing season, a lot of hot air and little behind it in some cases, yet the guy takes this all-British fight without thinking twice, puts his WBC ranking on the line, refuses to talk Kevin down or trash him and then goes out and helps to produce a FOTY candidate that came along at just the right time, hardly the crime of the century.

Completely agree with your latter point. It was a real throwback fight and FW must also be applauded for it. It was a fight that neither needed really, defeat for Mitchell would have meant the end of any world aspirations and Murray had a WBC title fight on the horizon. It could have been held back for a later date - as has been the recent traditional thought amongst promoters (mostly then the fight never taking place at all).

I agree with what your saying about how Murray could have improved, just not sure Murray could do that. Murray was Murray. I thought his defence was tighter than for his easier fights, but I don't think you can stylistically change him that much.

FOTY candidate - a sure fire winner I think domestically.

[Counter-puncher]

^^ yes; dare I say, perhaps even a slightly Hatton-esque trajectory (at a lower level)

I would disagree, I think John has improved as a fighter - .

disagree strongly, stu. he's showing exactly the same flaws, straight back/ no head movement/ heavy feet- that he always showed, IMO. i think there are strong signs he stagnated.

[stujones]

^^ yes; dare I say, perhaps even a slightly Hatton-esque trajectory (at a lower level)

I would disagree, I think John has improved as a fighter - .

disagree strongly, stu. he's showing exactly the same flaws, straight back/ no head movement/ heavy feet- that he always showed, IMO. i think there are strong signs he stagnated.

Your right, although I would think his power has improved and has his defence. He's not turned into the next sweet pea Whittkar in terms of defence, but he is less open now. He was blocking much of Mitchell's early work.

Also as he has got older, I think he has naturally got stronger (which all fighters do) - but this particularly suits Murray's style. I don't think he would have the same problems with Al Hamidi now as he did when they did fight.

Not saying its been a miraculous improvement, or even an improvement to the same level as the average boxer would improve with experience - but I do think he is a better fight now, than he was 5 years ago.

As I said in my previous post, one aspect of his game that hasn't improved, and possibly gone backwards in - is his handspeed. I thought my old man made a good comparison with Murray during the Mitchell fight. He's like Steve Robinson withouth the handspeed. It looked like he was punching through butter.

[Counter-puncher]

fair points, always good to chat with you stu

[Ezzard]

You know there were a number of moments when John swung the momentum his way and, despite Mitchell's cleaner work, a Murray win looked inevitable.

Murray is obviously a very, very hard and durable man. Some guys (punchers) have some success and fall in love with their power and forget about the other skills... Perhaps John became convinced he could walk through any amount of fire.

If John gets back in the gym and is honest with himself then the loss will be a good thing in the long run. He's quality and he'll come again.

[DavidPayne]

You know there were a number of moments when John swung the momentum his way and, despite Mitchell's cleaner work, a Murray win looked inevitable.

Murray is obviously a very, very hard and durable man. Some guys (punchers) have some success and fall in love with their power and forget about the other skills... Perhaps John became convinced he could walk through any amount of fire.

If John gets back in the gym and is honest with himself then the loss will be a good thing in the long run. He's quality and he'll come again.

Good post.

[hitman_hatton1]

i disagree he's better than mitchell.

:)