The "Great" Mike Tyson Before The Fall?

[ThatOne]

How would Mike Tyson fare against these Hall Of Famers before what his fans call his irrevocable decline at the age of 24?

Mike Tyson circa 1989 V Evander Holyfield circa 1989
Mike Tyson circa 1989 V Lennox Lewis circa1995*
Mike Tyson circa 1989 V James Douglas circa 1989
Mike Tyson circa 1989 V Larry Holmes circa 1980


ON EDIT- I PLACED LEWIS CLOSER TO WHAT SHOULD BE HIS PRIME

[Ezzard]

Holyfield 95-5

I wouldn't have bet on Holy back then but with hindsight he was just a far better fighter and has all the attributes to beat Tyson.

Tyson 90-10

Lewis had only had a handful of fights in 1989. An unfair and pointless matchup.

Douglas 80 -20

Douglas beat him in Feb 1990. I don't care how you sell it 2 months just isn't going to make much difference.

Holmes-Tyson 51-49
I think Holmes was the better fighter but Tyson was trained and tutored to fight him. I'd imagine Holmes to control the fight but Tyson ready to capitalise on any error. hard one to call.

[NazNaci1]

.... before what his fans call his irrevocable decline at the age of 24?

If you can't see the difference in his abilities before he hit 24 and those that followed, you must really have an agenda.

Would it not be better to say, Prime for Prime?

[ThatOne]

.... before what his fans call his irrevocable decline at the age of 24?

If you can't see the difference in his abilities before he hit 24 and those that followed, you must really have an agenda.

Would it not be better to say, Prime for Prime?

That's how I was matched. In my hurry I placed Lennox before his prime.

[ThatOne]

.... before what his fans call his irrevocable decline at the age of 24?

If you can't see the difference in his abilities before he hit 24 and those that followed, you must really have an agenda.

Would it not be better to say, Prime for Prime?

Well, Ezzard has him as 8-2 dog to the "great" Buster Douglas with Kevin Rooney holding his hand. That hardly makes Tyson great even in his alleged PRIME.

[Rambo]

Douglas 80-20....
Douglas winning was 1 in a million, would of been killed in a rematch

[Ezzard]

But Douglas actually beat him in the real world. Tyson can't say the same thing.

Tyson goes to bed on December 31st 1989 as the greatest ever HW. Wakes up on January 1st 1990. Looks at himself in the mirror and says, "Party's over, Mike. You're past your prime!"

You can't make this kind of thing up.

[ThatOne]

But Douglas actually beat him in the real world. Tyson can't say the same thing.

Tyson goes to bed on December 31st 1989 as the greatest ever HW. Wakes up on January 1st 1990. Looks at himself in the mirror and says, "Party's over, Mike. You're past your prime!"

You can't make this kind of thing up.

I think Rambo is suggesting that it was the absence of Rooney and not the presence of Douglas which caused the loss.

That is the purpose of my post and this entire exercise. To once and for all , disabuse readers of this site of the notion that all Kevin Rooney needed to do is wind up his machine and send it out for a victory.

[Ezzard]

I think that a bit like Liston nobody could see Tyson in decline because he blew out his challengers so quickly. So when he faced someone who didn't fold it seemed like a switch had been turned off.

Tyson was in trouble out of the ring from way back.

But he blew away many top contenders in an exciting and impressive manner. Probably very hard to maintain the intensity when it all seems so easy. I remember a tongue-in-cheek headline after he beat Tubbs in 2 rounds that read "Tyson comes from behind to win." That's how amazing his run had been.

But those quick KOs were masking issues...

[ThatOne]

I think that a bit like Liston nobody could see Tyson in decline because he blew out his challengers so quickly. So when he faced someone who didn't fold it seemed like a switch had been turned off.

Tyson was in trouble out of the ring from way back.

But he blew away many top contenders in an exciting and impressive manner. Probably very hard to maintain the intensity when it all seems so easy. I remember a tongue-in-cheek headline after he beat Tubbs in 2 rounds that read "Tyson comes from behind to win." That's how amazing his run had been.

But those quick KOs were masking issues...

Wasn't Liston 15-1 before he lost to Clay/Ali?

What's ironic is "nobody" thought he was an "old man" and inflated his age, until after the fight?

[The 1bangkid]

mike tyson in his prime would beat all of them holyfield would stand up to him and get himself a bad beating for 12 rounds

[BO Selecta]

How does Douglas February 1990 differ from Douglas 1989?

I could ask the same question about Mike Tyson; bearing in mind that the majority of the preparation (for both men) for the February 1990 bout took place in 1989.

[BO Selecta]

mike tyson in his prime would beat all of them holyfield would stand up to him and get himself a bad beating for 12 rounds

Wasn't Tyson in his prime in 1990?

[The 1bangkid]

just a tyson stroy/ Another that meant a lot to Tyson was his 1988 defense against aging former champ Larry Holmes, whom Tyson drilled in the fourth round.

"Cus had wanted me to beat him so bad," he said. Then he explained why, in a fascinating story I had never heard before.

Tyson explained that he was 14 when D'Amato took him and Jay Bright, a longtime member of Tyson's inner circle, from their home in Catskill, N.Y., to Albany to watch on closed circuit as Holmes retained the title in a 1981 destruction of the faded Muhammad Ali. Tyson even recalled the exact date: Oct. 2.

"I was offended by how bad he beat up Ali," Tyson said. "When we drove home to Catskill [about an hour from Albany], nobody in the car said a word, we were all so upset. The next morning, Cus was on the phone with Muhammad Ali after taking this shellacking from Holmes. He said to Ali, 'I have this young black kid who is going to be heavyweight champion someday and I want you to talk to him.'"

Tyson got on the phone and said he told Ali, "'When I grow up, I'll fight Holmes and I'll get him back for you.' I was 14 at the time."

When Tyson did meet Holmes seven years later, Ali was a guest at the fight. Tyson said Ali whispered to him beforehand, "Remember what you said -- get him for me."

[BoxBuzz]

Douglas 80-20....
Douglas winning was 1 in a million, would of been killed in a rematch

How's that Kool Aid tastin'? It's good stuff aint it?

[fatcookie]

I think a motivated, properly trained Tyson beats them all. I think he knocks out Douglas easy, stops Holmes late, easily outpoints Lewis and wins a close one against Holyfield.

[Ezzard]

I think that a bit like Liston nobody could see Tyson in decline because he blew out his challengers so quickly. So when he faced someone who didn't fold it seemed like a switch had been turned off.

Tyson was in trouble out of the ring from way back.

But he blew away many top contenders in an exciting and impressive manner. Probably very hard to maintain the intensity when it all seems so easy. I remember a tongue-in-cheek headline after he beat Tubbs in 2 rounds that read "Tyson comes from behind to win." That's how amazing his run had been.

But those quick KOs were masking issues...

Wasn't Liston 15-1 before he lost to Clay/Ali?

What's ironic is "nobody" thought he was an "old man" and inflated his age, until after the fight?

Yes, but hadn't he fought something like 7-8 rounds in almost 4 years?

The odds were ridiculously in Liston's favour because, like Tyson, he'd just have to turn up on fight night to win - or so people thought.

Foreman's downfall was similar. The difference is that Foreman and Liston lost to arguably the greatest ever Heavyweight. Tyson didn't.

[NazNaci1]

I have the utmost respect for Ezzard and his opinions on the sport.

Douglas fought at his absolute peak and at his peak, that night in Tokyo, not many HW greats would beat him, based purely on that performance.

Tyson, at his peak would still struggle immensely with that version of Douglas and probably still lose. However as i said, that version of Douglas would shatter Holyfield & Lewis aswell., with a peak Holmes being the only one, who I would favour.

Re Predictions:

Tyson - Holyfield Tyson W12
Tyson - Lewis Tyson KO5
Tyson - Douglas Douglas W12
Tyson - Holmes Holmes W12

[Bricks]

people keep dragging the douglas loss out of their arsehole.....while forgetting tyson almost pulled it out in the tenth and he had been ffucking every teenage japanese groupie going for a solid 4 week training camp while dropping down 30 pounds of fat.....plus he had the three stooges in his corner.....douglas won fair and square but the tyson of 89-91 post rooney and ignoring the douglas loss was an incredibly tough hard boxer who would fight hard and could punch for 12 rounds....he beats 95 lewis just doing what mercer tried to do but achieveing it far far better with more power and speed ending it in 5. Holmes beats him on points in a classic. Tyson beats holyfield.

[ThatOne]

people keep dragging the douglas loss out of their arsehole.....while forgetting tyson almost pulled it out in the tenth and he had been ffucking every teenage japanese groupie going for a solid 4 week training camp while dropping down 30 pounds of fat.....plus he had the three stooges in his corner.....douglas won fair and square but the tyson of 89-91 post rooney and ignoring the douglas loss was an incredibly tough hard boxer who would fight hard and could punch for 12 rounds....he beats 95 lewis just doing what mercer tried to do but achieveing it far far better with more power and speed ending it in 5. Holmes beats him on points in a classic. Tyson beats holyfield.

At the time, some experts thought Tyson had trained not too lightly but too hard. Watch the fight. Tyson's muscles are bulging, and there is no fat anywhere on his frame. He weighed in at 220½ pounds -- just 1¼ pounds more than he had weighed seven months earlier when he knocked out Carl Williams in 93 seconds and only two pounds more than he had weighed 20 months earlier when he had knocked out Michael Spinks in 91 seconds. If Tyson had been in poor shape, he could not have lasted 10 rounds against an opponent who was pummeling him. Mentally, there's no question Tyson was unprepared; it was inconceivable to him that Douglas might win. But that's a different issue, and a champion must always expect an inspired challenger.



http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing ... id=4903834

[Rocky Balboa]

Douglas 80-20....
Douglas winning was 1 in a million, would of been killed in a rematch

Yes, he would have & HE knew he would have. When both fighters arrived back in the USA after leaving Tokyo, they both appeared on a HBO broadcast, headed by Larry Merchant. Both fighters sat next to each other. Tyson was still wearing Sunglasses to cover his badly swollen Eye.

Tyson initiated the hand-shake as Merchant started the broadcast proceedings. Throughout the telecast, Tyson reiterated time & time again, that he wanted a rematch as soon as possible & that he would rectify the defeat he suffered in Tokyo. Douglas, when asked by Merchant about a rematch, stated he would prefer to defend against Holyfield before entertaining a Rematch with Mike. Tyson was very eager for a rematch, Douglas wasn't, & he wasn't because he knew Tyson would traion accordingly & would have taken care of him!

[The Great John L]

Douglas 80-20....
Douglas winning was 1 in a million, would of been killed in a rematch

Yes, he would have & HE knew he would have. When both fighters arrived back in the USA after leaving Tokyo, they both appeared on a HBO broadcast, headed by Larry Merchant. Both fighters sat next to each other. Tyson was still wearing Sunglasses to cover his badly swollen Eye.

Tyson initiated the hand-shake as Merchant started the broadcast proceedings. Throughout the telecast, Tyson reiterated time & time again, that he wanted a rematch as soon as possible & that he would rectify the defeat he suffered in Tokyo. Douglas, when asked by Merchant about a rematch, stated he would prefer to defend against Holyfield before entertaining a Rematch with Mike. Tyson was very eager for a rematch, Douglas wasn't, & he wasn't because he knew Tyson would traion accordingly & would have taken care of him!

It was probably more likely that Douglas knew he could never be as well prepared as he was in Tokyo and thought he'd get hurt less against Holyfield. Douglas was known as a skilled fighter, but always had questions about his desire. For one fight he trained properly and went into a fight with a purpose. Tyson may not have been at his best that night, but the Douglas that fought in Tokyo would have always given Tyson a tough night.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Douglas 80-20....
Douglas winning was 1 in a million, would of been killed in a rematch

Yes, he would have & HE knew he would have. When both fighters arrived back in the USA after leaving Tokyo, they both appeared on a HBO broadcast, headed by Larry Merchant. Both fighters sat next to each other. Tyson was still wearing Sunglasses to cover his badly swollen Eye.

Tyson initiated the hand-shake as Merchant started the broadcast proceedings. Throughout the telecast, Tyson reiterated time & time again, that he wanted a rematch as soon as possible & that he would rectify the defeat he suffered in Tokyo. Douglas, when asked by Merchant about a rematch, stated he would prefer to defend against Holyfield before entertaining a Rematch with Mike. Tyson was very eager for a rematch, Douglas wasn't, & he wasn't because he knew Tyson would traion accordingly & would have taken care of him!

I think so, & I think Douglas knew it, too. Lightning wasn't gonna strike twice.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Douglas 80-20....
Douglas winning was 1 in a million, would of been killed in a rematch

Yes, he would have & HE knew he would have. When both fighters arrived back in the USA after leaving Tokyo, they both appeared on a HBO broadcast, headed by Larry Merchant. Both fighters sat next to each other. Tyson was still wearing Sunglasses to cover his badly swollen Eye.

Tyson initiated the hand-shake as Merchant started the broadcast proceedings. Throughout the telecast, Tyson reiterated time & time again, that he wanted a rematch as soon as possible & that he would rectify the defeat he suffered in Tokyo. Douglas, when asked by Merchant about a rematch, stated he would prefer to defend against Holyfield before entertaining a Rematch with Mike. Tyson was very eager for a rematch, Douglas wasn't, & he wasn't because he knew Tyson would traion accordingly & would have taken care of him!

It was probably more likely that Douglas knew he could never be as well prepared as he was in Tokyo and thought he'd get hurt less against Holyfield. Douglas was known as a skilled fighter, but always had questions about his desire. For one fight he trained properly and went into a fight with a purpose. Tyson may not have been at his best that night, but the Douglas that fought in Tokyo would have always given Tyson a tough night.

You would have to say so, wouldn't you? He had all the tools for it.

However, I can't honestly say I see Douglas winning that fight, absolute best-on-absolute best. Tyson would've found him & flattened him somewhere in amongst those rounds. Douglas would clearly have tested him, though.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Tyson beats them all. Tyson was an unstoppable monster of destruction. That's why you now have Joan Lil Tyson Guzman, Ruslan White Tyson Chagaev, and Hernan Tyson Marquez amongst others. Tyson has transcended language and is now a verb and an adjective. Tyson under D'amato was capable of breaking the "snot boxes" of silverback gorillas.