Kell Brook - WBA title eliminator

[Captain Hook]

It's at Ponds Forge mate, but congrats on the pun...

Is it a good venue then?

Bit tetchy at the deep end but sure Brook will be fine, he's been treading water for seven years Benny :)

[Captain Hook]

PS Wesley, nothing wrong with supporting your local guy, all the luck in the world to you and him...but he talks the talk and soon it will be time to walk the walk.

So far it's been a stroll in the sunshine....

[Tommy Gunn13]

It's at Ponds Forge mate, but congrats on the pun...

Is it a good venue then?

Bit tetchy at the deep end but sure Brook will be fine, he's been treading water for seven years Benny :)

[dondada]

Realistically, where do you place Brook in the world rankings? 7/8/9 or do you reckon he's the best at the weight?

Do you still have Herol Graham at number one and Jarvis Cocker at number two?

:)

To be honest mate, I think Jarvis' recent inactivity would mean i'd have to have him just sliding out the top 10.

On a serious note, clearly Mayweather and Pacman are the best in the division. Now, if i just take a look at The Ring's Top 10 ... (Kell is at number nine)

Right, out of that lot, of those above him in the rankings, i'd back Kell to beat Jackiewicz, Zaveck, Senchenko and Jones right away. However, I suspect that Jackiewicz is probably the weakest of those guys (even though he is Ring's #6 in world) and I'm glad Kell is boxing him first. He needs a stepping stone fight before taking on the rest.

After one or two more fights AT THIS HIGH LEVEL, i think he's got a great chance against either Ortiz or Berto. However, i don't think he'd be ready to jump in class to their level yet - he just doesn't have the experience.

In short, other than the Big Two, I give Kell every chance of beating all the rest IN DUE COURSE, WHEN HE HAS A LITTLE MORE EXPERIENCE. He learned so much from the Ndou fight and hopefully the Jackiewicz fight will be similarly beneficial.

As for the Amir debate, i think that's a great fight and one that would be fantastic for British boxing. I didn't see the Judah fight and apparently Amir looked great in that fight. But i can definitely say that before that fight, i would have put my house on Kell to KO him and to be honest, i think i still would. Then again, I thought Degale would absoilutely take the piss out of Groves and that Haye would chin Wlad in the first six rounds! So what do i know?

Kell Brook turned pro SEVEN YEARS ago, what are you all waiting for? Let him off the leash against the elite.

One might argue (which also answers Wrists' point) that it is because he wasn't brought on enough in previous years that he still needs a few fights at sub-elite (yet still world class level).

You can't have it both ways Captain - either he's boxed no one and he's not ready for those elite tests or his CV is excellent and he's ready for the very top.

Which is it, me old Yorkshirephobe?

[Captain Hook]

I knew you'd make an appearance, McNeilly!

He's boxed decent domestic class and faded world class......I don't believe he has the tools to beat the elite.

But then I haven't been on here blowing smoke up his arse like 75% of posters.

I say if he's going to talk about being the best, and all his fans think he is, why are they carving such an easy way to the title for him?

To win a title is an achievement, of course, but once he gets hold of it he'll have to fight someone truly world class, not just knocking around the top 10.

My issue is largely with the fact he's beaten nobody of any note in a convincing fashion, yet he is one step away from a WBA title shot. And to get that he has to beat a tough guy (fair enough) with nine losses. Good, but not great.

Hatton and Calzaghe - even now - are given a kicking for fighting nobody and having easy title reigns.

In the first seven years of their careers they achieved far, far, far more than Brook has and were given 10% of the props.

Go figure........you flat-cap wearing whippet smuggler :)

[twenty six]

Hooky,
What I have never been able to get my head around, is why his previous Promotor didn't push him on, and why he was never given the oppertunity to fight in his home city, let alone headline a bill.
Kel was the worse kept secret at Brendan's for years and years.
Most Promotors wanted him on board.
Having invested in a commodity, why not use it ?
At least now we are seeing attempts made to push him on, and that's to be applauded.
I think it's right for people to say that after 7 years as a pro we need to know if he's go it or not.
I happen to believe he has. Not at the elite level, Pac man etc, but surely if he goes on to secure a lesser World belt, why not ?
I do believe Kel gets motivated by te level of his opponent.
Time will tell, but at least he's on the road to finding out now, not dawdling in the doldrums.

[dondada]

Ha ha, quality!

I just think there's a bit of a contradiction going on, me old Bread of Heaven-loving son of a miner.

If he hasn't fought anyone then surely he needs a few more tests to see if he has the tools!

[Pugilist-specialist]

PS Wesley, nothing wrong with supporting your local guy, all the luck in the world to you and him...but he talks the talk and soon it will be time to walk the walk.

So far it's been a stroll in the sunshine....

That was just the Jennings fight.

[DavidPayne]

Kel Brook didn't convince in the early part of his career because he was a part-timer.

Exasperated for a long time.

Now he beats NDou who is 63 years old in fighter years and suddenly he's ready for top level guys.

However, I'm tired of fighters being endlessly prepared for this mythical elite level.

Doesn't matter how many bricks you retrieve from the deep end in your pyjamas once there are sharks in swimming pool its different kettle of fish.

(I'd like to thank Joey Barton, Eric Cantona and the PFA for their help writing the above).

[dondada]

Kel Brook didn't convince in the early part of his career because he was a part-timer.

Exasperated for a long time.

Now he beats NDou who is 63 years old in fighter years and suddenly he's ready for top level guys.

However, I'm tired of fighters being endlessly prepared for this mythical elite level.

Doesn't matter how many bricks you retrieve from the deep end in your pyjamas once there are sharks in swimming pool its different kettle of fish.

(I'd like to thank Joey Barton, Eric Cantona and the PFA for their help writing the above).

So, in short for you:

- he's not ready for top level guys
- this doesn't matter because 'elite level' is a myth and he should be thrown in there anyway as you can never be really prepared?

[Captain Hook]

Hooky,
What I have never been able to get my head around, is why his previous Promotor didn't push him on, and why he was never given the oppertunity to fight in his home city, let alone headline a bill.
Kel was the worse kept secret at Brendan's for years and years.
Most Promotors wanted him on board.
Having invested in a commodity, why not use it ?
At least now we are seeing attempts made to push him on, and that's to be applauded.
I think it's right for people to say that after 7 years as a pro we need to know if he's go it or not.
I happen to believe he has. Not at the elite level, Pac man etc, but surely if he goes on to secure a lesser World belt, why not ?
I do believe Kel gets motivated by te level of his opponent.
Time will tell, but at least he's on the road to finding out now, not dawdling in the doldrums.

Agree with all of that.....

This is what frustrates. SEVEN years as a pro, did not look good against Jennings, beat a very faded N'dou and did a quick number on Lomax, McIntyre and others.

I've never said he's a bad fighter, he's not......but the jury is out and it's going to remain out for at least another 12 months or so at least.

I think the change of promoter will do him good, they seem to be showing more ambition with him.

[Captain Hook]

PS Wesley, nothing wrong with supporting your local guy, all the luck in the world to you and him...but he talks the talk and soon it will be time to walk the walk.

So far it's been a stroll in the sunshine....

That was just the Jennings fight.

You swine :)

....even you don't believe that PS!

[Captain Hook]

Kel Brook didn't convince in the early part of his career because he was a part-timer.

Exasperated for a long time.

Now he beats NDou who is 63 years old in fighter years and suddenly he's ready for top level guys.

However, I'm tired of fighters being endlessly prepared for this mythical elite level.

Doesn't matter how many bricks you retrieve from the deep end in your pyjamas once there are sharks in swimming pool its different kettle of fish.

(I'd like to thank Joey Barton, Eric Cantona and the PFA for their help writing the above).

I love this man..... :)

[DavidPayne]

Kel Brook didn't convince in the early part of his career because he was a part-timer.

Exasperated for a long time.

Now he beats NDou who is 63 years old in fighter years and suddenly he's ready for top level guys.

However, I'm tired of fighters being endlessly prepared for this mythical elite level.

Doesn't matter how many bricks you retrieve from the deep end in your pyjamas once there are sharks in swimming pool its different kettle of fish.

(I'd like to thank Joey Barton, Eric Cantona and the PFA for their help writing the above).

So, in short for you:

- he's not ready for top level guys
- this doesn't matter because 'elite level' is a myth and he should be thrown in there anyway as you can never be really prepared?

Out of contradiction comes great wisdom.

I think the sum total of those two points is this. Losing to a top level guy is not the end of the world when you are 24-25 and the upside is two fold, the fighter may learn more in defeat to a top guy and additionally, at least the fighter can say he had a go.

My commentary on #mythical elite level is in fact a reflection of a wider point often discussed and mocked on here when forum pundits can apply all new hierarchies to fights and fighters. We no longer just have world-class opponents, oh no, now we have fringe world-class, second tier guys, gatekeepers, elite class, contenders, "just some guy in the top 10", pound for pound top 10, pound for pound top 25, future hall of famers etc oh and my personal favourite, "elite, elite guys" - which as far as I can understand means Mayweather, Hopkins, Martinez and Pacman.

And please be advised not to take my points too seriously. I am only a domestic class contributor on here with a flimsy resume.

[dondada]

If my summary of your points is accurate, that's fine - it's a valid standpoint, for sure and it goes some way to addressing the apparent contradictions of Captain Brook, I mean Hook.

The contradiction seeming to be that:

1. he's fought no one, isn't ready
2. why oh why don't they throw him in right at the deep end

Perhaps these things aren't mutually exclusive anyway.

[DavidPayne]

The truth, as in all things in life, is somewhere in the middle.

However, what I would say is, with SKY raising the bar, fighters will be bettered prep'd because the whole smoke and mirrors of WBF, IBO, WBU etc has now been smashed and British prospects are fighting each other as opposed to pursuing mythical routes to the top.

For every Hatton WBU reign there was a Steve Roberts and Takaloo one which led nowhere.

Anyway, I'm off before I start having to think.

[Captain Hook]

If my summary of your points is accurate, that's fine - it's a valid standpoint, for sure and it goes some way to addressing the apparent contradictions of Captain Brook, I mean Hook.

The contradiction seeming to be that:

1. he's fought no one, isn't ready
2. why oh why don't they throw him in right at the deep end

Perhaps these things aren't mutually exclusive anyway.

I'm not contradicting myself matey, I know why he's not in at the deep end - because he's been too carefully managed and from what I've seen he is no more than a banger with decent skills.

He's a B+ in a division of A* boxers.

Maybe I'm doing him a disservice, maybe he'll sweep the lot of them aside one day in the future, perhaps after he's been a pro for 10 years, or 11.

Why I'm calling for him to step right up is because all of his fans on here honestly believe he can beat the lot of them. So let's see him do it...

[DavidPayne]

Let me just add the new alphabet based system to the levels mentioned above.

Is A* better than A+?

Just to be clear.

[Captain Hook]

I think an A* is the new A+

Maybe I'm wrong...

[Captain Hook]

This thread is a C- :)

[stevek3lly]

In short, Kell had a very stuttering carear under FW, had one fight back and battered N'Dou (I know he is old, but still not a lot of people do that) and this is another decent level fight for the title eliminator. We should all get behind Kell as he is still a very good prospect and looking to get a title shot.

Come on Kell.

[Wrists]

I hope Kell Brook is a world beater I really do.

My issue (if thats the right word) is that for some reason he is seen as some sort of monster when in reality he has done nothing to justify the 'lovin' he gets on here.

If FW had made the match thats just been made he would get slaughtered, the fact that Eddie Hearn has done it seems to result in a different set of rules - anyway thats for another day.

I hope Brook wins and goes on to become the fighter he already is in some people's eyes on here.

Until then............................

[dondada]

I hope Kell Brook is a world beater I really do.

My issue (if thats the right word) is that for some reason he is seen as some sort of monster when in reality he has done nothing to justify the 'lovin' he gets on here.

If FW had made the match thats just been made he would get slaughtered, the fact that Eddie Hearn has done it seems to result in a different set of rules - anyway thats for another day.

For a start, I don't think many are making him out to be a monster. It's just his army of haters led by Field Marshal Hook and Colonel Wrists jumping on any thread where he appears telling us this

No, if FW had made this match of this kind happen even nine months ago, he would have been applauded as it would have been showing progress. Who did Brook get instead?

[Wrists]

I hope Kell Brook is a world beater I really do.

My issue (if thats the right word) is that for some reason he is seen as some sort of monster when in reality he has done nothing to justify the 'lovin' he gets on here.

If FW had made the match thats just been made he would get slaughtered, the fact that Eddie Hearn has done it seems to result in a different set of rules - anyway thats for another day.

For a start, I don't think many are making him out to be a monster. It's just his army of haters led by Field Marshal Hook and Colonel Wrists jumping on any thread where he appears telling us this

No, if FW had made this match of this kind happen even nine months ago, he would have been applauded as it would have been showing progress. Who did Brook get instead?

I prefer Brigadier Wrists please.

Certainly not a Brook 'hater'. A massive bug bear of mine is when people are lauded when the reality is they've done nowt to deserve it.

Hope he proves me wrong I really do - we cant have enough world class fighters if you ask me

[Jon Saxon]

I hope Kell Brook is a world beater I really do.

My issue (if thats the right word) is that for some reason he is seen as some sort of monster when in reality he has done nothing to justify the 'lovin' he gets on here.

If FW had made the match thats just been made he would get slaughtered, the fact that Eddie Hearn has done it seems to result in a different set of rules - anyway thats for another day.

For a start, I don't think many are making him out to be a monster. It's just his army of haters led by Field Marshal Hook and Colonel Wrists jumping on any thread where he appears telling us this

No, if FW had made this match of this kind happen even nine months ago, he would have been applauded as it would have been showing progress. Who did Brook get instead?

Hey Ian, are you surprised at my new found restraint?