FOR SALE - MONTHLY BOXING MAGAZINE

[Jon Saxon]

Have any of you saw the mag in a while? (2000ad that is) if so I'm cuious as to what you think?

[orbtastic]

You frequently write in an odd mix of tenses, is it intentional?

I've not read the comic since about 1989. I read Crisis for a while but thought it was stupid, so didn't bother finishing.

[Jon Saxon]

You frequently write in an odd mix of tenses, is it intentional?

I've not read the comic since about 1989. I read Crisis for a while but thought it was stupid, so didn't bother finishing.

Yes it's funny you should say this as I have a friend who pulls me up all the time for my weird wordings and writings, I can't say theres a reason other than perhalps it has something to do with the way that my brain works, I'm left handed and right footed and I have unusual persoanlity traits (I have checked out by numerous docs and so far there is no diagnosis or chart for my the way I think and write or act) that have helped me and falied me in life.

The reason I ask is have have you read 'The Ultimates'?

I saw 200AD recently and it was terrible but then again rebelion who own t are only keeping it on the shelves to keep the IP alive for movies & games, they are not into comics one bit.

[orbtastic]

nah, I don't read comics. Well I do, but only reprints of stuff from my youth, or reprints of old marvel & DC stuff I read as a kid i.e. reprints of the golden/silver age stuff. I think the closest I've got to a modern comic is probably either watchman or stuff like killing joke or some frank miller stuff, but that's from roughly the same time frame.

don't know too much about rebellion, although some of the reprints I've read at my bro's are rebellion published? they seem to be doing a good job of it, from what I see. Compared to the mid 80s Titan reprints they are poor, but at least they are reprinting stuff and collecting it properly (some of the other stuff missed stories or just reprinted the same old stories again and again).

[Jon Saxon]

nah, I don't read comics. Well I do, but only reprints of stuff from my youth, or reprints of old marvel & DC stuff I read as a kid i.e. reprints of the golden/silver age stuff. I think the closest I've got to a modern comic is probably either watchman or stuff like killing joke or some frank miller stuff, but that's from roughly the same time frame.

don't know too much about rebellion, although some of the reprints I've read at my bro's are rebellion published? they seem to be doing a good job of it, from what I see. Compared to the mid 80s Titan reprints they are poor, but at least they are reprinting stuff and collecting it properly (some of the other stuff missed stories or just reprinted the same old stories again and again).

Mate YOU MUST read the Ultimate Avengers I will gaurentee you right here and now that you will think that you are 12 again when you read it.

The best comic since back in the day, very very exciting and full of nostalgia & action without insulting your intellect.

[orbtastic]

Ok good, I do dislike my intellect being insulted.

[Jon Saxon]

Ok good, I do dislike my intellect being insulted.

I hadn't read a comic in roughly 20 years and I was stunned, I couldn't put it down.

Don't begrudge yourself some great momments for the cost of a few pounds.
I thought I had outgrown comics, but when I read the ultimates I realised I was wrong.

[Deserter]

Rogue Trooper was my personal fave. Who was the guy with the magic ring, kind of a Green Lantern rip with a bit of extra edge.

It was Blackhawk I think - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackhawk_(Tornado)

This is the one, Doomlord. He was in Eagle magazine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomlord

Ahhhh.... I remember Doomlord - particularly notable as it was photos rather than drawn.

[Glyn Leach]

Ring Magazine was bought for $7 Million....

Glyn is asking for £11 Million....

No-one seems to be taking him seriously....



I will open the bidding war, right now, with a firm £6.71p - in cash!



"T.M.K" D

If BN went up for Sale, what do we think the asking Price would be?...

11 million

[Final round]

Ring Magazine was bought for $7 Million....

Glyn is asking for £11 Million....

No-one seems to be taking him seriously....



I will open the bidding war, right now, with a firm £6.71p - in cash!



"T.M.K" D

If BN went up for Sale, what do we think the asking Price would be?...

11 million

Sorry to get all Dragons Den on you Glyn but how did you get to this valuation. It wasn't down to the fact that that Mr Saxobeat said his mates mag was worth 11 mill?
If so for that reason I'm out.

Thanks for the twitter message couldn't reply back

[Jon Saxon]

If BN went up for Sale, what do we think the asking Price would be?...

11 million

Sorry to get all Dragons Den on you Glyn but how did you get to this valuation. It wasn't down to the fact that that Mr Saxobeat said his mates mag was worth 11 mill?
If so for that reason I'm out.

Thanks for the twitter message couldn't reply back

My friends offer was differant from most others in that his compnay had a very valuable mailing list & some IP attached to it.

FYI the average UK mage is worth between 1 to 3 Mil.


Now go "hit that Saxobeatboy"

[Deserter]

FYI the average UK mage is worth between 1 to 3 Mil.

Sorry, but that quote is utterly meaningless.

[Jon Saxon]

FYI the average UK mage is worth between 1 to 3 Mil.

Sorry, but that quote is utterly meaningless.

You don't have to apologize Deserter,

How much detail do you want?, a peice of advice, you shouldn't write posts when you don't fully understand what you are talking about, I do it's my job.

We have looked into acquiring two particular Emap publications & a TV channel in the past, one was for 1.5 and the other 3 mil, we then had a look around what else they had and then compared the sales of their other titles and then worked out what the rest were worth based on an average sales figure.

Does this help you understand now? or do you want to see in my laundry basket?

[Deserter]

FYI the average UK mage is worth between 1 to 3 Mil.

Sorry, but that quote is utterly meaningless.

You don't have to apologize Deserter,

How much detail do you want?, a peice of advice, you shouldn't write posts when you don't fully understand what you are talking about, I do it's my job.

We have looked into acquiring two particular Emap publications & a TV channel in the past, one was for 1.5 and the other 3 mil, we then had a look around what else they had and then compared the sales of their other titles and then worked out what the rest were worth based on an average sales figure.

Does this help you understand now? or do you want to see in my laundry basket?

Jon, a piece of advice, you shouldn't write posts when you don't fully understand who you are talking about. My 'job' included 15 years in publishing including running my own P&L within one of the largest consumer magazine publishers in the UK so I'm more than well placed to comment with authority.
Talking about the average value of a magazine is nonsensical when there is such a depth and breadth in that market - from the million-plus circulations of the likes of TV Choice through to the 3,000+ circs of hobbyist/enthusiast magazines., there are nearly 3,000 magazines out there.
To use an analogy, it's like looking at cars from a Lada through to a Ferrari to decide on the average price of a car - you can arrive at a figure for the 'average car' but how is that figure meaningful in any way, shape or form?
Then you have to factor in the rapidly changing market conditions, that mean mags can have their value written down in a very short life span, and then you have the variables outside of this in terms of 'forces at work' - for example Max Power, one of Emap's titles, used to sell more than a quarter of a million, yet its decline was both swift and huge, driven by factors as dvierse as the cost of car insurance for young drivers and the 'modded' culture falling out of fashion.
To use your limited data and insights based primarly on two publications out of nearly 3,000 as the basis for making such a bold claim is something that no statistician would support. Maybe you'd better get better at your job eh?

[Jon Saxon]

Sorry, but that quote is utterly meaningless.

You don't have to apologize Deserter,

How much detail do you want?, a peice of advice, you shouldn't write posts when you don't fully understand what you are talking about, I do it's my job.

We have looked into acquiring two particular Emap publications & a TV channel in the past, one was for 1.5 and the other 3 mil, we then had a look around what else they had and then compared the sales of their other titles and then worked out what the rest were worth based on an average sales figure.

Does this help you understand now? or do you want to see in my laundry basket?

Jon, a piece of advice, you shouldn't write posts when you don't fully understand who you are talking about. My 'job' included 15 years in publishing including running my own P&L within one of the largest consumer magazine publishers in the UK so I'm more than well placed to comment with authority.
Talking about the average value of a magazine is nonsensical when there is such a depth and breadth in that market - from the million-plus circulations of the likes of TV Choice through to the 3,000+ circs of hobbyist/enthusiast magazines., there are nearly 3,000 magazines out there.
To use an analogy, it's like looking at cars from a Lada through to a Ferrari to decide on the average price of a car - you can arrive at a figure for the 'average car' but how is that figure meaningful in any way, shape or form?
Then you have to factor in the rapidly changing market conditions, that mean mags can have their value written down in a very short life span, and then you have the variables outside of this in terms of 'forces at work' - for example Max Power, one of Emap's titles, used to sell more than a quarter of a million, yet its decline was both swift and huge, driven by factors as dvierse as the cost of car insurance for young drivers and the 'modded' culture falling out of fashion.
To use your limited data and insights based primarly on two publications out of nearly 3,000 as the basis for making such a bold claim is something that no statistician would support. Maybe you'd better get better at your job eh?

Lol slap me with a velvet glove why don't you, you dont read very good do you? I said "we looked at all the other top selling mags" pay attention from now on as the next section may help you.

My "bold" claim is based on facts, facts & the ability to see things that others can't, the facts that included numerous prominent magazines sales that were in front of us, so was the offer, from that point it was a simple case of doing the math and feeling the wind at the time of the offer.
As for YOUR 'winds of change point'? so what? I could go back in there next week and work out the current market value of their mags, so could you do the same? probably not methinks, It is this fundamental abilty that every entrepreneur needs, I guess not everyone has it, i.e the ability to see and what something is REALLY worth but more importantly what it will be worth in the future, so do you think I'm investing in a Boxing Mag or a Fitness one? ffs it aint rocket science now go join the dots and stop giving me such eloquently written but ultimately childish tit for tat shite.

In business you have to have the ability to be able to see where things are going or else you are fuked.
In fact I BET I could value BM FAR more accurately than you could.
So with this in mind are you up for it? you want to see who knows and who doesn't?
You willing to put your nob on the block in front of everyone on this forum? I am, from reading the above I can pretty much guess that I operate on a level that you might not fully understand, just a business 'hunch' though I could be wrong


No more fluffy words now step up and lets put some money on it, we get an independant evaluation but before this we will put out 'guesstimates' into two sealed envelopes and then put the cash into a reputable independant legal firms client a/c winner takes all.
You got the balls or are you just empty words on a forum? so how much you wanna bet for?

So lets go then, whatcha got big boy? you show me your valuation and I will show you mine.

[Glyn Leach]

Value? fornicate value. Just pay me.

[Jon Saxon]

Value? eff value. Just pay me.

I wouldn't put it in public Glynn as I have said I respect you.

But the other guy? man this is going to be fun as he is going to be asking all his mates for advice and I can sit here make one call and get as close to the exact figure as an independent valuation probably could, it's my job to know these things and I'm willing to prove it.


He was cheeky and needed his snout slapped but now he's also getting his pants taken down in public for good mesure.

[Deserter]

Lol slap me with a velvet glove why don't you, you dont read very good do you? I said "we looked at all the other top selling mags" pay attention from now on as the next section may help you.
My "bold" claim is based on facts, facts & the ability to see things that others can't, the facts that included numerous prominent magazines sales that were in front of us, so was the offer, from that point it was a simple case of doing the math and feeling the wind at the time of the offer.
As for YOUR 'winds of change point'? so what? I could go back in there next week and work out the current market value of their mags, so could you do the same? probably not methinks, It is this fundamental abilty that every entrepreneur needs, I guess not everyone has it, i.e the ability to see and what something is REALLY worth but more importantly what it will be worth in the future, so do you think I'm investing in a Boxing Mag or a Fitness one? ffs it aint rocket science now go join the dots and stop giving me such eloquently written but ultimately childish tit for tat shite.
In business you have to have the ability to be able to see where things are going or else you are fuked.
In fact I BET I could value BM FAR more accurately than you could.
So with this in mind are you up for it? you want to see who knows and who doesn't?
You willing to put your nob on the block in front of everyone on this forum? I am, from reading the above I can pretty much guess that I operate on a level that you might not fully understand, just a business 'hunch' though I could be wrong
No more fluffy words now step up and lets put some money on it, we get an independant evaluation but before this we will put out 'guesstimates' into two sealed envelopes and then put the cash into a reputable independant legal firms client a/c winner takes all.
You got the balls or are you just empty words on a forum? so how much you wanna bet for?
So lets go then, whatcha got big boy? you show me your valuation and I will show you mine.

Fluffy words? Jon, please tell me what was 'fluffy', as all I did was put you straight. Let me try and break it down for you:

There are nearly 3,000 magazines in the UK. To arrive at an accurate figure of the 'average' value one would have to know the value of all of them. Given the majority aren't held by PLC's, you would have to have had access to all their books, whether it's the Radio Times or Crafty Carper fishing magazine. You would then have needed the time to ascertain the amount of revenue they'd been generating through copy sales, through ad revenue, through subscriptions and through brand-related activities such as events and shows. You'd have also had to drill into their costbase in similar fashion. Are you seriously trying to tell me you've been able to do this?
Anyone who knows anything about maths, let alone business, knows it is a mathematical impossibility to arrive at an average if you don't know the total numbers. You've admitted yourself that you've only looked at "other top-selling mags" and "numerous prominent magazine sales" - by your own admission, therefore, this sub-set is not representative of the entire magazine industry in the UK so any average you try and arrive at based on those figures will be hopelessly skewered and fundamentally false.

Now to my next point (and it really should be you paying attention). Even if by some miracle of science you were able to access the books of all the magazines in the UK and arrive at an accurate average, that figure is still meaningless in practical terms - as a businessman, tell me how it helps you make any sort of investment decision? I can answer for you, because it doesn't. You would have to study each magazine on its own merits and in its own unique set of circumstances to determine whether it constituted an investment proposition. You, as a businessman know that is 100% true and that knowing the average value of a magazine would be utterly irrelevant to your decision-making process. As with the car analogy that I used before (that you chose to ignore), any of us could work out the average price of a car in the UK if we had enough time on our hands, but it would be meaningless as it wouldn't have any practical purpose to aid our buying decision - we would instead be influenced by meaningful numbers such as the specifications, the resale value etc of specific models. Or do you deny that's the case?

Therefore, my original post saying you figure was meaningless still stands. Unless you can tell me how it is meaningful?

Finally, I'm certainly not getting into a ridiculous pissing contest over BM. I've got huge respect for Glyn and he knows me well enough to know my publishing/business credentials. Even if that wasn't the case, if you think I'm going to spend time flying a copy of BM over to Dubai and counting the ad pages, doing a few 'Billy calls' to work out ad rates, calling my old friends in circulation to find out the estimated current circ of BM based on WH Smith data (which is never 100% accurate as it's not reflective of the whole market), then estimating staff salaries and overheads, looking in the 'flannel panel' to see who the printers are and getting them to quote on a similar circ number. Then trying to get hold of historical data to find out how circ, for example, is performing year-on-year.... all this just in a bid to win bragging rights on the internet? Then quite frankly, you really need to get a life. Remember the rest of us aren't laid up on our sofa spending our hours trying to start fights with anyone who dares disagree with them.

[Deserter]

But the other guy? man this is going to be fun as he is going to be asking all his mates for advice and I can sit here make one call and get as close to the exact figure as an independent valuation probably could, it's my job to know these things and I'm willing to prove it.


He was cheeky and needed his snout slapped but now he's also getting his pants taken down in public for good mesure.

Your playground jibes are laughable. It's amazing that you have all the valuations just a phone call away yet companies like Emap, IPC, Future and Haymarket have in the past taken months in terms of due diligence when on the acquisition trail and even then these things have gone spectacularly wrong on occasion in terms of the valuation they arrive at.

[Jon Saxon]

But the other guy? man this is going to be fun as he is going to be asking all his mates for advice and I can sit here make one call and get as close to the exact figure as an independent valuation probably could, it's my job to know these things and I'm willing to prove it.


He was cheeky and needed his snout slapped but now he's also getting his pants taken down in public for good mesure.

Your playground jibes are laughable. It's amazing that you have all the valuations just a phone call away yet companies like Emap, IPC, Future and Haymarket have in the past taken months in terms of due diligence when on the acquisition trail and even then these things have gone spectacularly wrong on occasion in terms of the valuation they arrive at.

I smell the blood in the water and you sir have bottled it infront of this forum.
Quite simply put your are out of your depth and as a result you have backed down, your arse has collapsed.

Desreter indeed you are and always shall be, in fact Sigmund Freud would have had a field day with your choice of sobriquet.


As our transalantic cousins say...."owned"

[Jon Saxon]

Finally, I'm certainly not getting into a ridiculous pissing contest over BM. all this just in a bid to win bragging rights on the internet? Then quite frankly, you really need to get a life. Remember the rest of us aren't laid up on our sofa spending our hours trying to start fights with anyone who dares disagree with them.

Public arse collapse.

[Deserter]

Finally, I'm certainly not getting into a ridiculous pissing contest over BM. all this just in a bid to win bragging rights on the internet? Then quite frankly, you really need to get a life. Remember the rest of us aren't laid up on our sofa spending our hours trying to start fights with anyone who dares disagree with them.

Arse collapsed in public.

Jon, forget about the playground jibes, as it's water off a duck's back to me to be honest. I've nothing to prove to you and I'm comfortable with how others on this forum view me. Just answer my simple questions that you keep on ducking:

1) Is it a fact that it is a mathmatical impossibility to calculate the average without knowing all the total numbers?

2) Even if you knew the average value of a magazine in the UK, how is it remotely meaningful?

By the way, I'm fortunate enough to know or have known a number of successful entrepreneurs who I have a huge degree of respect for. Most are characterised by their humility, their awareness of their falibility and their comfort in their own skin. By contrast, you seem remarkably thin-skinned, convinced that you can never be wrong and angry all the time. I wonder why that is?
All the best

[Jon Saxon]

Arse collapsed in public.

Jon, forget about the playground jibes, as it's water off a duck's back to me to be honest. I've nothing to prove to you and I'm comfortable with how others on this forum view me. Just answer my simple questions that you keep on ducking:

1) Is it a fact that it is a mathmatical impossibility to calculate the average without knowing all the total numbers?

2) Even if you knew the average value of a magazine in the UK, how is it remotely meaningful?

By the way, I'm fortunate enough to know or have known a number of successful entrepreneurs who I have a huge degree of respect for. Most are characterised by their humility, their awareness of their falibility and their comfort in their own skin. By contrast, you seem remarkably thin-skinned, convinced that you can never be wrong and angry all the time. I wonder why that is?
All the best

You taking the bet up or not?

Everyones watching, grow some nads man.

[Deserter]

Arse collapsed in public.

Jon, forget about the playground jibes, as it's water off a duck's back to me to be honest. I've nothing to prove to you and I'm comfortable with how others on this forum view me. Just answer my simple questions that you keep on ducking:

1) Is it a fact that it is a mathmatical impossibility to calculate the average without knowing all the total numbers?

2) Even if you knew the average value of a magazine in the UK, how is it remotely meaningful?

By the way, I'm fortunate enough to know or have known a number of successful entrepreneurs who I have a huge degree of respect for. Most are characterised by their humility, their awareness of their falibility and their comfort in their own skin. By contrast, you seem remarkably thin-skinned, convinced that you can never be wrong and angry all the time. I wonder why that is?
All the best

You taking the bet up or not?

Everyones watching, grow some nads man.

You're right Jon, everyone is watching... and just like your previous rants over people abusing you etc, they're laughing at you once more. Just answer the questions and stop deflecting it to your playground bet that I've already made clear I have no interest in. Oh, and if that's your criteria for 'nads', then you're even sadder than I first suspected...

[Jon Saxon]

Jon, forget about the playground jibes, as it's water off a duck's back to me to be honest. I've nothing to prove to you and I'm comfortable with how others on this forum view me. Just answer my simple questions that you keep on ducking:

1) Is it a fact that it is a mathmatical impossibility to calculate the average without knowing all the total numbers?

2) Even if you knew the average value of a magazine in the UK, how is it remotely meaningful?

By the way, I'm fortunate enough to know or have known a number of successful entrepreneurs who I have a huge degree of respect for. Most are characterised by their humility, their awareness of their falibility and their comfort in their own skin. By contrast, you seem remarkably thin-skinned, convinced that you can never be wrong and angry all the time. I wonder why that is?
All the best

You taking the bet up or not?

Everyones watching, grow some nads man.

You're right Jon, everyone is watching... and just like your previous rants over people abusing you etc, they're laughing at you once more. Just answer the questions and stop deflecting it to your playground bet that I've already made clear I have no interest in. Oh, and if that's your criteria for 'nads', then you're even sadder than I first suspected...

You write words and keep writing but yet you keep ducking? as for my "abuse" I was bored one day and felt I had to play with a fool as my Ps3 network was down and my engineer was laid in bed with a hangover, so I thought I should help with the house cleaning around here.

However you are cornered and this bet is very real and I will als bet that in the end it wouldnt be a playground in any way, shape, or 'forum' for you.
I kinda get the feeling that you know this also.

C'mon, man up, take me up on it...go on you know you want to.

I'm giving you a chance to show that you are smarter man than me, don't you believe in yourself?