Classic American West Coast Boxing

[raylawpc]

Who taught the teacher? . . .

Nearly two years ago, I was at Goossen's gym in Van Nuys, watching heavyweight Chris Arreola train. It was a press/PR event.
He had a young trainer, who obviously had never fought, and he was holding pads for Arreola.
In addition to being a lazy fat-ass, that bum has a know-nothing trainer.
Even worse, I'm watching Joe Goossen work pads with heavyweight Malik Scott.
Scott throws a jab, then drops his left hand as he pulls it back. Joe doesn't say a word. The left hand dips every time.
I wanted to ask him, "what about the guy who times that lazy jab, and follows up with a right cross as Scott pulls it back low?"
I didn't score a lot of KO's, but when I did that was usually what got my opponent knocked out, right hand over a lazy jab.

One thing I'll say about Mel Epstein, he really knew the "cutie' stuff, subtle little moves you will never see any of today's trainers teach, not even Roach.
Dan Hanley and I were conducting an interview with a great trainer in former middleweight contender George Benton.
Dan came out and asked Benton, "George, you were what was known as a 'cutie" had those slick moves you don't see today."
Benton, a very soft spoken and humble man, answered, "Nobody today can teach that. The old school trainers are all dead."
Benton's strategy enabled a guy with just eight pro fights under his belt to take the heavyweight title from Muhammad Ali.

I'll tell you a little story that I wasn't going to repeat because it might sound like I'm bragging, but . . . what the hell.

About six months ago, my youngest son invited a grounds of friends - one an amateur boxer - over to the house to watch a fight card on TV. This amateur's trainer - a pro - was fighting his first fight on national TV, and they all wanted to see it on my big screen TV. (They all work at the same pizza restaurant.) I can't remember the guy's name or who he fought but, anyway, about two minutes into the fight, I told my son's friend, "Your trainer is gonna get stopped about the third round with a straight right hand."

Laughs all around followed from the youngsters in the room . . .

Round three, the guy is taking a ten count from - you guessed it - a straight right hand.

Nobody is laughing now. The kid asks me, "How did you know?" So I proceeded to show him how his trainer was making a amateur mistake and leaving himself open for the punch.

The kid listens intently then says, "Mr Ray . . . will you train me?"

Tom, as you know, we are just talking "boxing basics."
You were around the game and have an eye for it. If a seasoned fighter carries his left low, it's for a reason, a set-up.
Any other reason will lead to bad consequences. Period.
The kid had good reason to seek your experience. You taught him a lesson, right there.
I don't know your life or schedule, but maybe it would be fun to work with him a little?
It would not only be helping him, but getting some great excercise yourself, and contributing to the betterment of boxing, one kid at a time.

You know, Rick, I did think about it. But at this time in my life I'm into spending time with my granddaughter, traveling a bit, spending time at my second home in SW Missouri, and working part-time with my software company. A young guy needs a full time trainer. Besides, spending every afternoon in a smelly old boxing gym doesn't have the appeal to me that it once did.

[raylawpc]

I'll tell you a little story that I wasn't going to repeat because it might sound like I'm bragging, but . . . what the hell.

About six months ago, my youngest son invited a grounds of friends - one an amateur boxer - over to the house to watch a fight card on TV. This amateur's trainer - a pro - was fighting his first fight on national TV, and they all wanted to see it on my big screen TV. (They all work at the same pizza restaurant.) I can't remember the guy's name or who he fought but, anyway, about two minutes into the fight, I told my son's friend, "Your trainer is gonna get stopped about the third round with a straight right hand."

Laughs all around followed from the youngsters in the room . . .

Round three, the guy is taking a ten count from - you guessed it - a straight right hand.

Nobody is laughing now. The kid asks me, "How did you know?" So I proceeded to show him how his trainer was making a amateur mistake and leaving himself open for the punch.

The kid listens intently then says, "Mr Ray . . . will you train me?"

Tom, as you know, we are just talking "boxing basics."
You were around the game and have an eye for it. If a seasoned fighter carries his left low, it's for a reason, a set-up.
Any other reason will lead to bad consequences. Period.
The kid had good reason to seek your experience. You taught him a lesson, right there.
I don't know your life or schedule, but maybe it would be fun to work with him a little?
It would not only be helping him, but getting some great excercise yourself, and contributing to the betterment of boxing, one kid at a time.

Great stuff Tom

Thanks Remy. Now, Rick, if I lived in Norway and Remy was the kid, my answer might be different!

[raylawpc]

Say, Frank, at last year's CBHFO banquet, Frankie mentioned to me that he was thinking about training fighters. Given what a technically correct fighter Frankie was, I would think he'd be an excellent trainer. Did he ever follow-up on that?

[Rick Farris]

I'll tell you a little story that I wasn't going to repeat because it might sound like I'm bragging, but . . . what the hell.

About six months ago, my youngest son invited a grounds of friends - one an amateur boxer - over to the house to watch a fight card on TV. This amateur's trainer - a pro - was fighting his first fight on national TV, and they all wanted to see it on my big screen TV. (They all work at the same pizza restaurant.) I can't remember the guy's name or who he fought but, anyway, about two minutes into the fight, I told my son's friend, "Your trainer is gonna get stopped about the third round with a straight right hand."

Laughs all around followed from the youngsters in the room . . .

Round three, the guy is taking a ten count from - you guessed it - a straight right hand.

Nobody is laughing now. The kid asks me, "How did you know?" So I proceeded to show him how his trainer was making a amateur mistake and leaving himself open for the punch.

The kid listens intently then says, "Mr Ray . . . will you train me?"

Tom, as you know, we are just talking "boxing basics."
You were around the game and have an eye for it. If a seasoned fighter carries his left low, it's for a reason, a set-up.
Any other reason will lead to bad consequences. Period.
The kid had good reason to seek your experience. You taught him a lesson, right there.
I don't know your life or schedule, but maybe it would be fun to work with him a little?
It would not only be helping him, but getting some great excercise yourself, and contributing to the betterment of boxing, one kid at a time.

You know, Rick, I did think about it. But at this time in my life I'm into spending time with my granddaughter, traveling a bit, spending time at my second home in SW Missouri, and working part-time with my software company. A young guy needs a full time trainer. Besides, spending every afternoon in a smelly old boxing gym doesn't have the appeal to me that it once did.

I understand. But it made you think for a minute.

[kikibalt]

http://youtu.be/GvHVj6Ewiy0

Frankie Baltazar v Charles "Mad Dog" Young

Rest of the fight is on the Youtube side bar

"Frankie Baltazar's Last Fight"

October 24, 1991: Frankie is to fight Charles “Mad Dog” Young for Don Fraser at the Marriott Hotel at Irvine, Ca. We arrived early for the same fight day Weight-in. Contract weight was 143 give or take. Frankie was right on the money at 143. Mad Dog came in 148, five over the contract agreement. The CSAC only allows a fighter to lose two pounds on the day of the fight, so that meant Mad Dog could only come in at 146, still three pounds over. Don Fraser is ready to have a heart attack as he is about to lose his main event. Don asked me if we would fight Mad Dog at ‘46, I said yes, but that we get 10 % of Mad Dog purse, the CSAC inspector jumped at that and said “no way are you getting 10 % of Young’s purse', I told the inspector that if the fight was to go on we were getting 10% of Young’s purse and that if he read his rule book he would find out that we could get it, he called out to his flunky to get him the rule book, he read the rule book and he say “yes you can get 10 % and the CSAC get another 10 %!”. Poor Mad Dog just lost 20 % of his purse. After the inspector and Don Fraser explain things to him, he agree to lose two pounds, don’t think he understood about the 20%.

Mad dog came to the fight without a corner, so he asked Hall Of fame Corner Man Chuck Bodak and Jerry Boyed if they would work his corner, that he would pay them he said. Jerry Boyed in 2004 had a book published “Rope Burns” under the name F.X. Toole. The Oscar winning movie “Million Dollar Baby” was made from that book.

Two or three hours later Mad Dog made 146, so the fight is on. Later on in the afternoon, I was sitting with Pat Russell who was to be the main event referee at the hotel's coffee shop; as we were sitting there Mad Dog came over to our table to talk trash, about how he was going knock Frankie out. I told him that that was okay with me. That either way I would walk out with the winner, he asked me “whatcha ya mean, whatcha ya mean?”; I told him; you and Frankie are my fighters, he tells me “I am not your fighter”. I than told him that for tonight’s fight I owned 10 % of him, Pat Russell told him that that was true; he then walked away muttering.

The fight went all Frankie’s way. He stopped Mad Dog in the ninth round. After the fight in the dressing room I told Frankie that we needed to talk about his boxing career and where he was going from here, well the rest is history.

Afterward I was in the hotel bar having a drink with some friends and fans of Frankie when Chuck Bodak and Jerry Boyed came up to me and asked me if I have seen Mad Dog, I said no, what happened I asked them “The S-B didn’t pay us”... The Mad Dog was long gone….

[Rick Farris]

Tom, as you know, we are just talking "boxing basics."
You were around the game and have an eye for it. If a seasoned fighter carries his left low, it's for a reason, a set-up.
Any other reason will lead to bad consequences. Period.
The kid had good reason to seek your experience. You taught him a lesson, right there.
I don't know your life or schedule, but maybe it would be fun to work with him a little?
It would not only be helping him, but getting some great excercise yourself, and contributing to the betterment of boxing, one kid at a time.

Great stuff Tom

Thanks Remy. Now, Rick, if I lived in Norway and Remy was the kid, my answer might be different!

Well since you mentioned Remy . . . What if the lad were to one day make his pro debut in California?
Would you fly out and attend the match, if possible?

[kikibalt]

Say, Frank, at last year's CBHFO banquet, Frankie mentioned to me that he was thinking about training fighters. Given what a technically correct fighter Frankie was, I would think he'd be an excellent trainer. Did he ever follow-up on that?

Nope!!

[raylawpc]

Tom, as you know, we are just talking "boxing basics."
You were around the game and have an eye for it. If a seasoned fighter carries his left low, it's for a reason, a set-up.
Any other reason will lead to bad consequences. Period.
The kid had good reason to seek your experience. You taught him a lesson, right there.
I don't know your life or schedule, but maybe it would be fun to work with him a little?
It would not only be helping him, but getting some great excercise yourself, and contributing to the betterment of boxing, one kid at a time.

Great stuff Tom

Thanks Remy. Now, Rick, if I lived in Norway and Remy was the kid, my answer might be different!

Well since you mentioned Remy . . . What if the lad were to one day make his pro debut in California?
Would you fly out and attend the match, if possible?[/quote]

The operative phrase being "if possible," the answer is yes.

[raylawpc]

Say, Frank, at last year's CBHFO banquet, Frankie mentioned to me that he was thinking about training fighters. Given what a technically correct fighter Frankie was, I would think he'd be an excellent trainer. Did he ever follow-up on that?

Nope!!

I hope he does!

[Rick Farris]

http://youtu.be/GvHVj6Ewiy0

Frankie Baltazar v Charles "Mad Dog" Young

Rest of the fight is on the Youtube side bar

"Frankie Baltazar Last Fight"

October 24, 1991: Frankie is to fight Charles “Mad Dog” Young for Don Fraser at the Marriott Hotel at Irvine, Ca. We arrived early for the same fight day Weight-in. Contract weight was 143 give or take. Frankie was right on the money at 143. Mad Dog came in 148, five over the contract agreement. The CSAC only allows a fighter to lose two pounds on the day of the fight, so that meant Mad Dog could only come in at 146, still three pounds over. Don Fraser is ready to have a heart attack as he is about to lose his main event. Don asked me if we would fight Mad Dog at ‘46, I said yes, but that we get 10 % of Mad Dog purse, the CSAC inspector jumped at that and said “no way are you getting 10 % of Young’s purse', I told the inspector that if the fight was to go on we were getting 10% of Young’s purse and that if he read his rule book he would find out that we could get it, he called out to his flunky to get him the rule book, he read the rule book and he say “yes you can get 10 % and the CSAC get another 10 %!”. Poor Mad Dog just lost 20 % of his purse. After the inspector and Don Fraser explain things to him, he agree to lose two pounds, don’t think he understood about the 20%.

Mad dog came to the fight without a corner, so he asked Hall Of fame Corner Man Chuck Bodak and Jerry Boyed if they would work his corner, that he would pay them he said. Jerry Boyed in 2004 had a book published “Rope Burns” under the name F.X. Toole. The Oscar winning movie “Million Dollar Baby” was made from that book.
Two or three hours later Mad Dog made 146, so the fight is on. Later on in afternoon, I was sitting with Pat Russell who was to be the main event referee; as we were sitting there Mad Dog came over to our table to talk trash, about how he was going knock Frankie out. I told him that that was okay with me. That either way I would walk out with the winner, he asked me “whatcha ya mean, whatcha ya mean?”; I told him; you and Frankie are my fighters, he tells me “I am not your fighter”. I than told him that for tonight’s fight I own 10 % of him, Pat Russell told him that that was true; he then walked away muttering.

The fight went all Frankie’s way. He stopped Mad Dog in the ninth round. After the fight in the dressing room I told Frankie that we needed to talk about his boxing career and where he was going from here, well the rest is history.

Afterward I was in the hotel bar having a drink with some friends and fans of Frankie when Chuck Bodak and Jerry Boyed came up to me and asked me if I have seen Mad Dog, I said no, what happened I asked them “The S-B didn’t pay us”... The Mad Dog was long gone….

Great story, Frank. And for you and Frankie Jr. a happy ending.
This one goes in your book, for sure!

[Rick Farris]

Say, Frank, at last year's CBHFO banquet, Frankie mentioned to me that he was thinking about training fighters. Given what a technically correct fighter Frankie was, I would think he'd be an excellent trainer. Did he ever follow-up on that?

Nope!!

I hope he does!

I do too!! He has everything it takes. This is a good thing, I believe.

[Panzerfaust]

Say, Frank, at last year's CBHFO banquet, Frankie mentioned to me that he was thinking about training fighters. Given what a technically correct fighter Frankie was, I would think he'd be an excellent trainer. Did he ever follow-up on that?

Nope!!

I hope he does!

What about Tony? he got any interest in training fighters?

[Panzerfaust]

Tom, as you know, we are just talking "boxing basics."
You were around the game and have an eye for it. If a seasoned fighter carries his left low, it's for a reason, a set-up.
Any other reason will lead to bad consequences. Period.
The kid had good reason to seek your experience. You taught him a lesson, right there.
I don't know your life or schedule, but maybe it would be fun to work with him a little?
It would not only be helping him, but getting some great excercise yourself, and contributing to the betterment of boxing, one kid at a time.

Great stuff Tom

Thanks Remy. Now, Rick, if I lived in Norway and Remy was the kid, my answer might be different!

Well since you mentioned Remy . . . What if the lad were to one day make his pro debut in California?
Would you fly out and attend the match, if possible?[/quote]

The operative phrase being "if possible," the answer is yes.[/quote]

Hope you make it out if and when it comes around

[kikibalt]

http://youtu.be/GvHVj6Ewiy0

Frankie Baltazar v Charles "Mad Dog" Young

Rest of the fight is on the Youtube side bar

"Frankie Baltazar Last Fight"

October 24, 1991: Frankie is to fight Charles “Mad Dog” Young for Don Fraser at the Marriott Hotel at Irvine, Ca. We arrived early for the same fight day Weight-in. Contract weight was 143 give or take. Frankie was right on the money at 143. Mad Dog came in 148, five over the contract agreement. The CSAC only allows a fighter to lose two pounds on the day of the fight, so that meant Mad Dog could only come in at 146, still three pounds over. Don Fraser is ready to have a heart attack as he is about to lose his main event. Don asked me if we would fight Mad Dog at ‘46, I said yes, but that we get 10 % of Mad Dog purse, the CSAC inspector jumped at that and said “no way are you getting 10 % of Young’s purse', I told the inspector that if the fight was to go on we were getting 10% of Young’s purse and that if he read his rule book he would find out that we could get it, he called out to his flunky to get him the rule book, he read the rule book and he say “yes you can get 10 % and the CSAC get another 10 %!”. Poor Mad Dog just lost 20 % of his purse. After the inspector and Don Fraser explain things to him, he agree to lose two pounds, don’t think he understood about the 20%.

Mad dog came to the fight without a corner, so he asked Hall Of fame Corner Man Chuck Bodak and Jerry Boyed if they would work his corner, that he would pay them he said. Jerry Boyed in 2004 had a book published “Rope Burns” under the name F.X. Toole. The Oscar winning movie “Million Dollar Baby” was made from that book.
Two or three hours later Mad Dog made 146, so the fight is on. Later on in afternoon, I was sitting with Pat Russell who was to be the main event referee; as we were sitting there Mad Dog came over to our table to talk trash, about how he was going knock Frankie out. I told him that that was okay with me. That either way I would walk out with the winner, he asked me “whatcha ya mean, whatcha ya mean?”; I told him; you and Frankie are my fighters, he tells me “I am not your fighter”. I than told him that for tonight’s fight I own 10 % of him, Pat Russell told him that that was true; he then walked away muttering.

The fight went all Frankie’s way. He stopped Mad Dog in the ninth round. After the fight in the dressing room I told Frankie that we needed to talk about his boxing career and where he was going from here, well the rest is history.

Afterward I was in the hotel bar having a drink with some friends and fans of Frankie when Chuck Bodak and Jerry Boyed came up to me and asked me if I have seen Mad Dog, I said no, what happened I asked them “The S-B didn’t pay us”... The Mad Dog was long gone….

Great story, Frank. And for you and Frankie Jr. a happy ending.
This one goes in your book, for sure!

Yes it will Rick, that of course is if I ever write one...

[coach greg v]

Tom, as you know, we are just talking "boxing basics."
You were around the game and have an eye for it. If a seasoned fighter carries his left low, it's for a reason, a set-up.
Any other reason will lead to bad consequences. Period.
The kid had good reason to seek your experience. You taught him a lesson, right there.
I don't know your life or schedule, but maybe it would be fun to work with him a little?
It would not only be helping him, but getting some great excercise yourself, and contributing to the betterment of boxing, one kid at a time.

Great stuff Tom

Thanks Remy. Now, Rick, if I lived in Norway and Remy was the kid, my answer might be different!

Well since you mentioned Remy . . . What if the lad were to one day make his pro debut in California?
Would you fly out and attend the match, if possible?[/quote]

The operative phrase being "if possible," the answer is yes.[/quote]

Hope you make it out if and when it comes around [/quote]
>love to be there when a young man makes his begining

[coach greg v]

http://youtu.be/GvHVj6Ewiy0

Frankie Baltazar v Charles "Mad Dog" Young

Rest of the fight is on the Youtube side bar

"Frankie Baltazar Last Fight"

October 24, 1991: Frankie is to fight Charles “Mad Dog” Young for Don Fraser at the Marriott Hotel at Irvine, Ca. We arrived early for the same fight day Weight-in. Contract weight was 143 give or take. Frankie was right on the money at 143. Mad Dog came in 148, five over the contract agreement. The CSAC only allows a fighter to lose two pounds on the day of the fight, so that meant Mad Dog could only come in at 146, still three pounds over. Don Fraser is ready to have a heart attack as he is about to lose his main event. Don asked me if we would fight Mad Dog at ‘46, I said yes, but that we get 10 % of Mad Dog purse, the CSAC inspector jumped at that and said “no way are you getting 10 % of Young’s purse', I told the inspector that if the fight was to go on we were getting 10% of Young’s purse and that if he read his rule book he would find out that we could get it, he called out to his flunky to get him the rule book, he read the rule book and he say “yes you can get 10 % and the CSAC get another 10 %!”. Poor Mad Dog just lost 20 % of his purse. After the inspector and Don Fraser explain things to him, he agree to lose two pounds, don’t think he understood about the 20%.

Mad dog came to the fight without a corner, so he asked Hall Of fame Corner Man Chuck Bodak and Jerry Boyed if they would work his corner, that he would pay them he said. Jerry Boyed in 2004 had a book published “Rope Burns” under the name F.X. Toole. The Oscar winning movie “Million Dollar Baby” was made from that book.
Two or three hours later Mad Dog made 146, so the fight is on. Later on in afternoon, I was sitting with Pat Russell who was to be the main event referee; as we were sitting there Mad Dog came over to our table to talk trash, about how he was going knock Frankie out. I told him that that was okay with me. That either way I would walk out with the winner, he asked me “whatcha ya mean, whatcha ya mean?”; I told him; you and Frankie are my fighters, he tells me “I am not your fighter”. I than told him that for tonight’s fight I own 10 % of him, Pat Russell told him that that was true; he then walked away muttering.

The fight went all Frankie’s way. He stopped Mad Dog in the ninth round. After the fight in the dressing room I told Frankie that we needed to talk about his boxing career and where he was going from here, well the rest is history.

Afterward I was in the hotel bar having a drink with some friends and fans of Frankie when Chuck Bodak and Jerry Boyed came up to me and asked me if I have seen Mad Dog, I said no, what happened I asked them “The S-B didn’t pay us”... The Mad Dog was long gone….

Great story, Frank. And for you and Frankie Jr. a happy ending.
This one goes in your book, for sure!

Yes it will Rick, that of course is if I ever write one...

> frank all the ingredients are there. for a great book LA boxing history. YOur boxing past and son swhat more could u ask for...

[kikibalt]

Great story, Frank. And for you and Frankie Jr. a happy ending.
This one goes in your book, for sure!

Yes it will Rick, that of course is if I ever write one...

> frank all the ingredients are there. for a great book LA boxing history. YOur boxing past and son swhat more could u ask for...

Well Greg, the problem is that I am not a writer.....

[coach greg v]

Yes it will Rick, that of course is if I ever write one...

> frank all the ingredients are there. for a great book LA boxing history. YOur boxing past and son swhat more could u ask for...

Well Greg, the problem is that I am not a writer.....

> what are all these little stories I am reading put them all together a best seller.....rick too

[coach greg v]

> frank all the ingredients are there. for a great book LA boxing history. YOur boxing past and son swhat more could u ask for...

Well Greg, the problem is that I am not a writer.....

> what are all these little stories I am reading put them all together a best seller.....rick too

> if u and rick say put all ur thoughts that u have already written and say called the book "Memories of the Olympic or ringside in LA. seems like theres alot of stuff already written I don't know...

[coach greg v]

Well Greg, the problem is that I am not a writer.....

> what are all these little stories I am reading put them all together a best seller.....rick too

> if u and rick say put all ur thoughts that u have already written and say called the book "Memories of the Olympic or ringside in LA. seems like theres alot of stuff already written I don't know...

>Heres a lite sunday boxing story for you. A guy comes into newmans about 330pm. It's a little early the place heated up around 430pm. One of the managers asked if I would work with this guy. So I show him some stance. The mirror, the bags, jump rope the whole 9 yards. Hes a older guy. So I work with him 3 more days he thanks me for my work. 3 months later I am in a book store and there is this book BOXING FOR BEGINNERS.Yep hes the author showing all the moves. Hes on all the local stations talking about boxing. Hes even been hired by a tv station to be the boxing authority. When the old newmans gym was in trouble he assigned to cover it. He would not even speak to me but another trainer got him by saying by the way how many boxing matchs have u had? Where did u learn all the stuff in that book? They made him look like a fool and soon he faded out of the picture......on another thought I was reading about what george benton said on how there are no more good trainers out there. maybe true but boxing is also a different sport. it no longer ranks as number 2 sport next to baseball. I like teddy atlas i think hes a good trainer but listening to him explain to me what 6 yr old understands is annoying. the spanish stations tell it like it is.

[Rick Farris]

Kiki wrote: "Well Greg, the problem is that I am not a writer....."
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Neither am I. But we seem to be fooling a few people?

[kikibalt]

Kiki wrote: "Well Greg, the problem is that I am not a writer....."
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Neither am I. But we seem to be fooling a few people?

[raylawpc]

Nope!!

I hope he does!

I do too!! He has everything it takes. This is a good thing, I believe.

I encouraged him to do it when we were discussing it at the CBHOF banquet. Every tape I've seen of him shows a very technically skilled fighter. I enjoyed talking to him; he expresses himself very well. I've only met Frankie the one time, so it's more of a gut feeling, but I think he'd be a good trainer.

[raylawpc]

Yes it will Rick, that of course is if I ever write one...

> frank all the ingredients are there. for a great book LA boxing history. YOur boxing past and son swhat more could u ask for...

Well Greg, the problem is that I am not a writer.....

Hire a ghost writer!

[kikibalt]

> frank all the ingredients are there. for a great book LA boxing history. YOur boxing past and son swhat more could u ask for...

Well Greg, the problem is that I am not a writer.....

Hire a ghost writer!

I am afraid of ghosts....