Glyn Leach wrote:Good debate and while I share Flex's inherent distrust towards the suited and booted image, Eddie is a slick, approachable and likeable pro — rather like his dad. I think it's great that Eddie and the Warren brothers have broken onto the scene, they may be relatively inexperienced but they have a wealth of experience to call on and the backing of promotional outfits already with strong infrastructures intact to which they can hopefully bring a fresh outlook.
As for 'poaching', that's just what happens, isn't it — in most areas of life people will go for the best deal available. Like Mickey Duff said, if you want loyalty buy a dog.
I think Martinez might be a bit overrated too. Looking at it, he beat Pavlik (not all that) and Williams was possibly more overrated than his abilities warranted, look at his recent form. Maravilla is an excellent fighter, no question, but I agree with Camcas, he isn't 'true elite' at this stage
agree, i certainly think the supposed 'no3 p4p' tag is going the game a bit
Bit surprised by some of the criticisms. Barker is old enough and seasoned enough for this fight. If he’s not ready now then he’ll never be. And if defeat ruins him then he would probably never have the right stuff to make it.
Win or lose this one I think he has the right stuff.
I think Martinez is a fine boxer who would do well against any of the champions of my life time. When Barker’s on his pipe and in his slippers he’ll be able to pull out the story of sharing a ring with Martinez. Hopefully, it’ll be about the night he beat him.
This has to be a better career trajectory then fighting a nobody for a vacant title someone dreamt up.
Camcas wrote:People overate Martinez so much here its funny.
Explain why?
People are talking about him as P4P number 3 which he is nowhere near IMO. Hes only ever fought two world class fighters (Williams and Pavlik) both of them weren't at there best when he fought them, (maybe Williams was in the first fight). The second Williams fight was admitedly very impressive, but people seem to be rating him on just that fight which is why he gets overated so much
Camcas wrote:People overate Martinez so much here its funny.
Explain why?
example, 'he's p4p no3'
I'd have Marquez, to name but one, ahead of him.
But Camcas specifically said people "here". What I don't see on here is people proclaiming him as the 'second coming', just a clearly established world-level fighter who is a proven operator at a level several above any Barker's operated in to date. Hence concerns that Darren will be out of his depth. It's one of those cases where I'm sure those of us who think that would love to be proven wrong as he's clearly a decent guy, but it's hardly a mad view to think it.
Camcas wrote:People overate Martinez so much here its funny.
Explain why?
People are talking about him as P4P number 3 which he is nowhere near IMO. Hes only ever fought two world class fighters (Williams and Pavlik) both of them weren't at there best when he fought them, (maybe Williams was in the first fight). The second Williams fight was admitedly very impressive, but people seem to be rating him on just that fight which is why he gets overated so much
Dzinziruk is world class, though not elite and Martinez dominated and destroyed him
But Camcas specifically said people "here". What I don't see on here is people proclaiming him as the 'second coming', just a clearly established world-level fighter who is a proven operator at a level several above any Barker's operated in to date. Hence concerns that Darren will be out of his depth. It's one of those cases where I'm sure those of us who think that would love to be proven wrong as he's clearly a decent guy, but it's hardly a mad view to think it.
I didn't specifically mean this thread, just people claming he is 3rd P4P is ridiculous. He is a world class fighter, but not an elite P4P fighter is what im saying
People are talking about him as P4P number 3 which he is nowhere near IMO. Hes only ever fought two world class fighters (Williams and Pavlik) both of them weren't at there best when he fought them, (maybe Williams was in the first fight). The second Williams fight was admitedly very impressive, but people seem to be rating him on just that fight which is why he gets overated so much
Dzinziruk is world class, though not elite and Martinez dominated and destroyed him
Dzinziruk hasn't beaten anyone of real quality maybe Daniel Santos, and another thing Dzinziruk is a light Middleweight not a Middleweight like Martinez
But Camcas specifically said people "here". What I don't see on here is people proclaiming him as the 'second coming', just a clearly established world-level fighter who is a proven operator at a level several above any Barker's operated in to date. Hence concerns that Darren will be out of his depth. It's one of those cases where I'm sure those of us who think that would love to be proven wrong as he's clearly a decent guy, but it's hardly a mad view to think it.
I think its more surprising that boxing writers seem to be giving Darren a genuine chance. Martinez might not be Barcelona but he is a big Champions League club. Darren is mid-table Premier League. Who's the southpaw Darren's fought that gives him such confidence. Bendall? There might be something in the line someone said about Darren taking the opportunity/payday while its there due to him knowing with his injuries he won't have much longer in the sport. Fair play to him if that is the case.
One thing Eddie said that has to be respected is the money they're committed to losing on boxing in the short term at least. You've got to think Brook is being paid much more than he's bringing in. Groves could at least pay his way in ticket sales you'd think if he's in big fights.
I do disagree on MW original post somewhat concerning Darren Barker. Its not as if Eddie put a gun to Darren's head to sign for this fight. Darren, whether its for financial reasons or a (and I hope it is) a geniune confidence he can pull it off, wanted this fight. Hennessy didn't deliever it, and lets be honest - didn't look close to delivering it. Had Darren more exposure would he have been a 25/1 underdog against a 35 year old ex Light Middleweight (N/B I think Martinez is the bee knees just playing devils advocate). Barker aint a bad fighter - would probably start at even money against Macklin who, in many people's eyes, should be a world champion. Yet Darren has seemed to have fallen into the Matthew Hatton, Gary Lockett bracket of fighters with given no chance.
Whilst I favour Martinez heavily what I mean is Darren would start as underdog (in the states) against fighters he should beat and against fighters who bookies would give more a chance vs Martinez.
Hennessy has a good relationship with the WBC, but it has also taken him a long time for his fighters to get that first crack at the title. Look how long Froch, Eastman and Witter were holding the #1 position. John Murray - highly ranked for years didn't even seem to enter negotations for a world title. It does seem once a Hennessy fighter gets a chance though, second and third chances come quickly (Froch / Witter being prime examples). Barker was 28 and all it seemed Hennessy was delivering was the EBU title time and time again.
I do however completely agree with not understanding the "love" for Eddie regarding the apparent turn around of future in Carl Froch.... all of this credit Froch is getting now, all of these "opportunities" were already in PLACE under his previous promoter (who I feel worked wonders, alongside Saurland, to make sure two fighters who had LOST their previous fight fought for the full version of the WBC title). I personally feel Eddie is getting easy money there.... yes, they are on Sky now - and yes Matchroom have a great relationship with Sky, but it would have been the same had he signed with Warren or Hatton.
Sid-the-hat wrote: Who's the southpaw Darren's fought that gives him such confidence. Bendall?
pretty sure Barker's had a fair amount of sparring with top lefties, for what that's worth..... Gomez?
Lots of top leftie sparring and fighting as an amateur (England captain amongst other accolades). And I'm not saying Dzinziruk is amazing but he is by today's standards world-class
jameswilson wrote:It's an absolute outrage that someone is getting praise isn't it.
Well, yes, unless it's me, in which case it would be completely justified.
But seriously, all Ed's done is throw money at a couple of the UK's top fighters and grabbed them after all the hard work been's done. Then makes a flash novice move and throws his man straight to the wolves.
jameswilson wrote:It's an absolute outrage that someone is getting praise isn't it.
Well, yes, unless it's me, in which case it would be completely justified.
But seriously, all Ed's done is throw money at a couple of the UK's top fighters and grabbed them after all the hard work been's done. Then makes a flash novice move and throws his man straight to the wolves.
Martinez is incredibly good, but people talk as though he is unbeatable at the weight, possibly even unfightable. Every fighter has a style they will struggle against and both Darren and Matchroom must feel pretty confident he has that style RE Martinez. Kudos to them for that and all we can do as fans is sit back and watch it unravel. We will not know if it was a masterstroke or not until after the bell goes for round 1.
But Camcas specifically said people "here". What I don't see on here is people proclaiming him as the 'second coming', just a clearly established world-level fighter who is a proven operator at a level several above any Barker's operated in to date. Hence concerns that Darren will be out of his depth. It's one of those cases where I'm sure those of us who think that would love to be proven wrong as he's clearly a decent guy, but it's hardly a mad view to think it.
I didn't specifically mean this thread, just people claming he is 3rd P4P is ridiculous. He is a world class fighter, but not an elite P4P fighter is what im saying
Ezzard wrote:If he’s not ready now then he’ll never be.
Sorry fella, but that's nonsense. How does his recent history constitute adequate preparation for this title shot?
29 should be his peak. He’s unlikely to get that much better. To be Middleweight champ (sports blue ribbon division) then you have got to be a bit special. This is his chance. Step up and take it. Barker is as ready now as he’ll ever be. And if he is going to get better then he’ll learn more from a fight with Martinez than anyone else in the division.
Ezzard wrote:Barker is as ready now as he’ll ever be.
Disagree completely. And referring to his age as constituting his peak is ridiculous as it varies dramatically from individual to individual - you only have to look at Martinez to see that as he's way past his supposed peak based on age, but the reality is that he's peaking now in his mid-30s.
Ezzard wrote:Barker is as ready now as he’ll ever be.
Disagree completely. And referring to his age as constituting his peak is ridiculous as it varies dramatically from individual to individual - you only have to look at Martinez to see that as he's way past his supposed peak based on age, but the reality is that he's peaking now in his mid-30s.
Yes, but you have to make a decision based on something. 29 won’t be far off however it turns out.
- If he’s already peaked then he’s got no time to lose and should take the fight
- If he’s peaking now then this represents his best moment and he should take the fight
- If he is yet to peak then this experience will help him become a better fighter
Ezzard wrote:If he is yet to peak then this experience will help him become a better fighter
Again, you simply can't make this assumption. The wrong fight at the wrong time can ruin a fighter and we can all cite examples of that off the top of our heads.
