Did Haye's lack of fights at h/w contribute to his downfall?

[SteveDow]

Since Haye moved up to the heavyweight division in 2008 after the Maccarinelli victory (barring the 1 round ko of Bonin in 2007 of course) he had 4 fights in 3 years prior to Klitschko. Barrett in November 2008, Valuev in November 2009, Ruiz in April 2010 and Harrison in November 2010.

I'm wondering how much this distinct lack of activity contributed to the loss against Klitschko. I'm not saying he would have won had he been busier but this few fights in a new division against what, to be honest, was poor opposition generally cannot be good preparation for facing a genuine heavyweight champion.

Clearly Haye took the fast track route for money reasons given that had he lost before winning the title and getting to Klitschko then the paydays would not have been as great but, from a fighting point of view, this fasttrack route was a mistake in my view.

I think Haye should have fought as follows:

September 2008 (no need for an 8 month break after Maccarinelli, a 6 month break would have been fine but I was fairly happy with Barrett as a first real opponent given he had just come off a good win against Tye Fields).

December 2008: He should have had another little step up here against somebody like Tony Thompson who is a decent technical boxer and fringe contender who could have gained him a bit of exposure in America and given him different things to think about.

March 2009: I'd have then gone for somebody like Eddie Chambers who is faster than Thompson and has a decent punch and in my view is a slight step up from Thompson.

June/July 2009: Chris Arreola/Sam Peter big puncher and someone who may have at least tested Haye's chin at the weight and again big names who would have gained Haye further exposure.

November 2009: Valuev to get the Heavyweight title. I feel that Haye could well have stopped Valuev had he had the fights listed above first.

March/April 2010: Ruiz as mandatory.

September 2010: Harrison as a cashing out fight would have been more acceptable here as he would have gained more experience.

February 2011: Chageav/Povetkin: Another big step up against guys who are viewed as world class and would have both given Haye a tough challenge.

July 2011: Klitschko.

Clearly it would have been difficult to make all of these fights but this would have given him a genuine education at the weight and made him better equipped to deal with Klitschko than he was. Yes people can say he may have lost and then would never have got the Klitschko fight but at least he would have known what level he was at from a purely fighting viewpoint.

Thoughts?

[Counter-puncher]

my opinion- no. i don't think heavyweight 'seasoning' would have helped. i think he was always basically going to have a smash'n'grab-raid type of strategy at heavyweight, and i don't think he would need a lot more fights to 'finetune' that 'style'.

also more fights would probably = more wear and tear. maybe even a broken big toe.

[alexpaterson]

I would of liked to see him more active as a Heavyweight and fight more deserving challengers but in all honesty I don't think it would of made a difference to the result against Klitschko.

[mkirkhope]

I do think being more active in the division (if winning) would have given him more of a resume to fall back on and therefore a bigger case to ask Wlad for a rematch but no, I don't think the schedule you describe would have made any difference on Sat night. If anything I think he might have got found out along the way and not made it to Wlad at all.

[THE MESSIAH]

No, it was a raid and get out before he was beaten.

No toe amount of fights would have helped.

HE IS JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

[paul12342]

I thought his fight with barrett started things of ok. Valuev however i felt was difficult to gauge as i felt he was a massive lump but with no real boxing ability. Ruiz i felt was at the end of his career and harrison was never gonna be a competitive match no matter what.

i dont think it was the lack of fights more the lack of quality opposition! He shouldnt of been fighting harrison as a warm up for a unification fight.

[Horse]

No toe amount of fights would have helped.

Is that meant to be a pun?

[Spiker]

I think haye would of done the same on the night no matter what or who he had fought at heavy.
As soon as he felt Klits strength he shut up shop.
Maybe Haye believed his own hype and thought he would win after beating the big hairy mofo.
Truth is he is a cruiserweight and should get back down to that division where he can win. He can redeem himself then.

[Finn]

I thought his fight with barrett started things of ok. Valuev however i felt was difficult to gauge as i felt he was a massive lump but with no real boxing ability. Ruiz i felt was at the end of his career and harrison was never gonna be a competitive match no matter what.

i dont think it was the lack of fights more the lack of quality opposition! He shouldnt of been fighting harrison as a warm up for a unification fight.

X 2

[Finn]

I think haye would of done the same on the night no matter what or who he had fought at heavy.
As soon as he felt Klits strength he shut up shop.
Maybe Haye believed his own hype and thought he would win after beating the big hairy mofo.
Truth is he is a cruiserweight and should get back down to that division where he can win. He can redeem himself then.

whats the point - who gives a monkeys about the CW division?

[Spiker]

I think haye would of done the same on the night no matter what or who he had fought at heavy.
As soon as he felt Klits strength he shut up shop.
Maybe Haye believed his own hype and thought he would win after beating the big hairy mofo.
Truth is he is a cruiserweight and should get back down to that division where he can win. He can redeem himself then.

whats the point - who gives a monkeys about the CW division?

Isnt it better to be a champion than an also ran??

[hurlock]

i think hayes style is the problem.when you strip everything away he is just a single shot clubber who likes to prowl on the outside & pounce in & try to end a contest with a single punch without getting into a fight & is pretty sloppy.
people can criticise his tactics v wlad but he was dwarfed & going for victory could of got him really hurt.

[oliverfennell]

More fights against smaller to medium-sized heavyweights would have had people believing in Haye more and would have deflected much of the pre-Klitschko criticisms, but for me it was conspicuous that he was a completely different animal against larger heavies, and I don't think that would have changed no matter how many contests he had in the division.

Vs Bonin, Barrett, Ruiz - exciting, bombs-away aggression

Vs Valuev, Harrison, Klitschko - cautious, low-output counter-puncher/pot-shotter

[Final round]

More fights against smaller to medium-sized heavyweights would have had people believing in Haye more and would have deflected much of the pre-Klitschko criticisms, but for me it was conspicuous that he was a completely different animal against larger heavies, and I don't think that would have changed no matter how many contests he had in the division.

Vs Bonin, Barrett, Ruiz - exciting, bombs-away aggression

Vs Valuev, Harrison, Klitschko - cautious, low-output counter-puncher/pot-shotter

That's the long and short of it literally.

[Dan Dares]

i think hayes style is the problem.when you strip everything away he is just a single shot clubber who likes to prowl on the outside & pounce in & try to end a contest with a single punch without getting into a fight & is pretty sloppy.

When he unloads, it can be very sloppy indeed (pardon the pun). When he decided to go to work against Harrison, and bearing in mind it wasn't exactly a moving target, it didn't look impressive at all.

[Finn]

More fights against smaller to medium-sized heavyweights would have had people believing in Haye more and would have deflected much of the pre-Klitschko criticisms, but for me it was conspicuous that he was a completely different animal against larger heavies, and I don't think that would have changed no matter how many contests he had in the division.

Vs Bonin, Barrett, Ruiz - exciting, bombs-away aggression

Vs Valuev, Harrison, Klitschko - cautious, low-output counter-puncher/pot-shotter

That's the long and short of it literally.

x 2 although when he smells a finsih he does tend to go for it.

[hurlock]

i think hayes style is the problem.when you strip everything away he is just a single shot clubber who likes to prowl on the outside & pounce in & try to end a contest with a single punch without getting into a fight & is pretty sloppy.

When he unloads, it can be very sloppy indeed (pardon the pun). When he decided to go to work against Harrison, and bearing in mind it wasn't exactly a moving target, it didn't look impressive at all.

i thought the same. it was wild & erratic & almost desperate while aud jost froze :!: it was like watching an amateur boxing club show.

[rooq]

He certainly would have got more respect if he took this approach, but he would also be risking the big payday against Wlad. I dont understand why some people ever considered him as the man to "save" the HW division when he had no intention of sticking around.

[DIRT SUGAR]

Stand next to David Haye... stand next to Klitschko and you'll think... 'Actually he did alright because Vlad's bloody massive!'

I think it was just a case of a good biggun beating a good littlun. I do think Haye could have been more active, but he's never been the busiest of fighters so he was never going to be a six-fight a year fighter and when you're fighting or championship belts these days I think it's more difficult as these fights are big events and they have to fit in with all the other fights, TV, stadia and the financial arrangements that go into just making such big fights.

Yes Haye was disappointing against Klitshcko, but considering how active he'd been as a heavyweight and the advantage Vlad had in size, weight and just pure heavyweight experience - on paper one could arguably say it was a mismatch - and still, Haye didn't come out of it too badly. Beaten, but not beaten up and he gave a Vlad at the top of his game one of his most difficult nights.

Yes, Haye talked such a big fight and the outcome made it all the more disappointing. No doubt he must look at himself in the mirror and be disappointed... but in the cold light of day and as a piece of business, I bet one look at his bank account and I don't think he'll think he did too shabbily.