Does everyone think Ward will beat Froch?

[J]

Magee was about 5 years ago, and Froch snapped his thumb in the second round. We drove down to NHS direct on the Sat morning and it was like a football. He got in pinned during the week after the fight.

With regards the Kessler win, god the headbutts were nasty. Very nasty.

Kessler's one of the nicest fellas in boxing, so when he declare's Ward was intentionally headbutting and holding him, combined with the footage - then you can't give Ward plaudits for that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Puxp2Lv6QU

kessler was too nice, I cant see carl taking that shit without dishing some back either. and this is the nub of it for me, we dont really know how ward is when someone gives it to him. by hook or by crook. I i were carl id smack in the bollox early let him know he aint gonna get away with that bullshit getting some back.

[jameswilson]

Depends on your definition on "regular" I guess, but it was over here and the current scene. We got a lot of posters from Nottingham way who support him quite a lot. Nowt wrong with that.

apophenic is one such poster I have had discussions about Froch about.... good constructive discussions I might add.

I guess you can say my downer goes back futher than the Abraham fight.... however, its not a personal downer at all.... always been a response to a forum member. Froch was involved in two close fights before the Abraham fight. I'm not in a minority (I wouldn't have thought) in seeing that Froch lost both of these fights.... and my downer stems from there and the "he can do no wrong" viewpoint of a minority of forum members.... entitled to their view (and they put their viewpoints articulately), as I am mine.... doesn't mean I don't want him to win against Ward - I am looking forward to the fight.

I just disagree with some forum members on a few things Froch related.

1) Dirrell fight.
2) Kessler fight (I agree with the judges).
3) Overinflating of the Abraham fight.... GREAT GREAT Performance, but signfies a #1 Super Middleweight ranking? Not in my book, especially after Ward did a similar job.
4) I give Hennessy more dues than most in getting on the Super 6, getting a US profile, and especially getting him a second chance at the full WBC title - I did think the timing of the promotion change and his attitude about Mick "Mick was always just my representative, I've never been promoted" wasn't that nice - but yet, the majority seemed to hail this attitude and were saying "about time to".... this off course happened after the Abraham fight.

I guess when some of us don't hail our #1 fighter we are seen as having some personal jelous vendetta... I used to think the same of people continuing to champion Witter vs Hatton.

Just on your last point I don't think it's a case of you not hailing the no1 fighters, it's a case I think of never actually hailing anyone. Serious question who are your favourite boxers, in all the years I'v posted here I don't have a clue who you support? Only who you don't support because I see you posting about their achievments not being all that for various reasons (vacant titles, years of poor opposition etc.) I'm not saying you have to support someone because you don't, but with the (at times) celebration I seemed to detect from you after (not straight after) Froch's loss to Kessler I'd have thought you'd have someone out there that you support through thick and thin.

[stujones]

I don't support any per se.... Like everyone, I respect all fighters and have many whose style and ability I rate higher than others. I don't think I've defended anyone through thick and thin.... If I think a fighter I admire greatly loses, I will say it. If a fighter I admire fights poorly I will say it. Although, I would say the three fighters who I have been more "positive" about in debates here (mainly with KG) and I thought they have been more "anti" (constructive "anti" I will say) are Khan, DLH (even today posts!) and Tyson. I hope I don't potray myself as a "nuthugger" of these, just sometimes disagree when people are being over critical. Like Froch, I would say these three fighters polorises opinion.... Is Khan still a chinny accident waiting to happen, does he still only want to fight non punchers or past it ex champions? Was DLH a well marketed fighter who never won against a prime elite fighter, did he lose twice to Mosley? And Tyson's career's is full of ifs, buts and maybes.

You probably wouldn't see a single negative post in my archive about Manny Pacquiao since the first Morales fight (hard to be negative about him) or many about Floyd Mayweather - I even defended the DLH fight (which I thought he lost) based on the size difference. Often defended against the viewpoint that Floyd needed to fight Margarito, cause at the time who had Margarito beaten to warrant such a high opinion.

I hope I didn't go in the round by round card "yeah.... come on Kessler" - certainly didn't mean to. I celebrated that decision, cause IMO it was the correct decision (home town or not) and I felt Froch fought a very poor fight - didn't get going until it was way too late. I celebrated what I think to be a fair decision.

I for one will never slag off just who Froch has fought in his last 7 fights coming up.... Its like a whose who of the current Super Middleweight devision and pisses all over Bute in that respect. What I haven't liked though its as if people have forgotton half way through this run there is a L. But yet more people seem to have Froch ahead of Kessler in the rankings than don't. Adam Smith described the top 10 today as "obviously Ward and Froch at #1 and #2"... I don't think it is obvious at all. If Froch wins, then yes.... it will be obvious #1 and #2 (with Froch at clear #1).

[jameswilson]

I don't support any per se.... Like everyone, I respect all fighters and have many whose style and ability I rate higher than others. I don't think I've defended anyone through thick and thin.... If I think a fighter I admire greatly loses, I will say it. If a fighter I admire fights poorly I will say it. Although, I would say the three fighters who I have been more "positive" about in debates here (mainly with KG) and I thought they have been more "anti" (constructive "anti" I will say) are Khan, DLH (even today posts!) and Tyson. I hope I don't potray myself as a "nuthugger" of these, just sometimes disagree when people are being over critical. Like Froch, I would say these three fighters polorises opinion.... Is Khan still a chinny accident waiting to happen, does he still only want to fight non punchers or past it ex champions? Was DLH a well marketed fighter who never won against a prime elite fighter, did he lose twice to Mosley? And Tyson's career's is full of ifs, buts and maybes.

You probably wouldn't see a single negative post in my archive about Manny Pacquiao since the first Morales fight (hard to be negative about him) or many about Floyd Mayweather - I even defended the DLH fight (which I thought he lost) based on the size difference. Often defended against the viewpoint that Floyd needed to fight Margarito, cause at the time who had Margarito beaten to warrant such a high opinion.

I hope I didn't go in the round by round card "yeah.... come on Kessler" - certainly didn't mean to. I celebrated that decision, cause IMO it was the correct decision (home town or not) and I felt Froch fought a very poor fight - didn't get going until it was way too late. I celebrated what I think to be a fair decision.

I for one will never slag off just who Froch has fought in his last 7 fights coming up.... Its like a whose who of the current Super Middleweight devision and pisses all over Bute in that respect. What I haven't liked though its as if people have forgotton half way through this run there is a L. But yet more people seem to have Froch ahead of Kessler in the rankings than don't. Adam Smith described the top 10 today as "obviously Ward and Froch at #1 and #2"... I don't think it is obvious at all. If Froch wins, then yes.... it will be obvious #1 and #2 (with Froch at clear #1).

Fair enough. I just remember you giving it the 'does Froch still really think he beat Kessler?' in one thread a while back as if it was the clearest cut decision ever and it left me thinking 'well loads of the press at ringside had Froch anyway.'

[stujones]

Fair enough. I just remember you giving it the 'does Froch still really think he beat Kessler?' in one thread a while back as if it was the clearest cut decision ever and it left me thinking 'well loads of the press at ringside had Froch anyway.'

I didn't like (and still don't) how Froch didn't give Kessler any credit and just made it out like a complete hometown decision. For me I thought Kessler won and clear, can see why some have it close - for me I don't think there were more than 5 rounds that could go for Froch.

Just my view of the fight. Excellent fight back by Carl, but a frustrating performance where he left it a bit too late.

At the end of the day though, doesn't really matter what he says after the performance - it is how he fights after - and he learned from that defeat very very well indeed. Masterful against Abraham and did saw home a victory against the ever game Johnson - tip my hat off in how he has fought back since. Just wish he, and maybe others, give Kessler a bit more credit for their war.

[whiskey]

Fair enough. I just remember you giving it the 'does Froch still really think he beat Kessler?' in one thread a while back as if it was the clearest cut decision ever and it left me thinking 'well loads of the press at ringside had Froch anyway.'

I didn't like (and still don't) how Froch didn't give Kessler any credit and just made it out like a complete hometown decision. For me I thought Kessler won and clear, can see why some have it close - for me I don't think there were more than 5 rounds that could go for Froch.

Just my view of the fight. Excellent fight back by Carl, but a frustrating performance where he left it a bit too late.

At the end of the day though, doesn't really matter what he says after the performance - it is how he fights after - and he learned from that defeat very very well indeed. Masterful against Abraham and did saw home a victory against the ever game Johnson - tip my hat off in how he has fought back since. Just wish he, and maybe others, give Kessler a bit more credit for their war.

Do you think Kessler does not give Andre Ward any credit and just made out it was a hometown decision ?

[damianhucker1]

Fair enough. I just remember you giving it the 'does Froch still really think he beat Kessler?' in one thread a while back as if it was the clearest cut decision ever and it left me thinking 'well loads of the press at ringside had Froch anyway.'

I didn't like (and still don't) how Froch didn't give Kessler any credit and just made it out like a complete hometown decision. For me I thought Kessler won and clear, can see why some have it close - for me I don't think there were more than 5 rounds that could go for Froch.

Just my view of the fight. Excellent fight back by Carl, but a frustrating performance where he left it a bit too late.

At the end of the day though, doesn't really matter what he says after the performance - it is how he fights after - and he learned from that defeat very very well indeed. Masterful against Abraham and did saw home a victory against the ever game Johnson - tip my hat off in how he has fought back since. Just wish he, and maybe others, give Kessler a bit more credit for their war.

being a nottingham lad im naturally a big froch fan , but on this particular subject i agree with you , personally i scored it to kessler by 1 round and thought i was possibly even being biased towards froch by scoring it that way .

[crusader]

I have no idea how it's going to go. The common opponent, Kessler, having watched the fight again recently I thought Froch lost that just by fighting like a nutter, neglecting defence and throwing wild punches. He almost fell over at one point he looked so off balance. Still, fighting badly he had Kessler rocked and put him out of action for a while. He put him out of the tournament anyway. I thought the scoring was bullsh*t. It didn't reflect how close a fight it was.

Again, I thought Ward got all he could handle with Sakio Bika and it was close. Carl Froch is a better fighter than Sakio. Also, like others are saying, Ward went to points with Green, Johnson KO'd Green, and Froch beat Johnson. I know you shouldn't read too much into that, but you can't help but read something.

I know everyone's picking Ward, but then almost everybody picked Abraham to beat Froch too. I had Carl to win that one, I'm pleased to say, but I'm having trouble seeing Carl beating Ward. I absolutely hope I'm wrong.

I don't think that a KO victory is necessarily more impressive than a thrashing that endures for the full distance, and therefore I don't think Johnson's victory over Green is more impressive than Ward's victory over Green when other factors are considered.

Ward is not a power puncher, so he won't stop most of his top 15 opponents. He did, however, outclass Green in every single round and pretty much made him his bitch. Johnson stopped Green, but he was down on the cards at the time of the stoppage and overall had a much tougher time with Green than Ward did. I can see the logic in many of the criticisms of Ward that have been raised, but Johnson/Green example is tenuous due to a flawed interpretation of the bouts, and the very indirect nature of Froch's relationship with Green and Ward's relationship with Johnson. A much stronger case (with shortcomings, of course) is made by looking at Froch’s and Ward’s performances against common opponents, and in these terms Ward comes out superior to Froch--excuses or not—due to their respective showings against The Viking Warrior.

On the other hand, Froch has one of the best recent resumes in all of boxing, so he is superior to Ward in terms of the overall quality of opposition they have defeated, and a strong case can be made that Froch dominated AA more than Ward did. The latter point attenuates the common opponent argument and the former point suggests that bar one fight Ward hasn’t been doing anything that Froch wouldn’t be capable of .

I like Ward to win a close decision, but I'm not having trouble envisioning a Froch victory. They're very evenly matched, but I think that Ward's significant speed advantage will be the difference.

[goldenears]

it's a terrific fight - the nearest comparison is Carl's fight with Dirrell who is also quick and slick, but Ward a level above. Carl will have to be busier and take it to him, try to drag him into war at times, shut the ring down, but it won't be easy to do that.

If Ward gets dirty then Carl will match him, and in his defence, Carl has shown he CAN box long in last couple of fights and also that he will take punches to land punches and Ward won't hurt him with one punch.

I do think Kessler edged Carl out, but that was a fantastic fight between two warriors who can both mix it and box, this is a totally different challenge and all depends if Carl can get to Ward and not let Andre dictate from distance in a Mayweather-esque counter punching style - I think he's the toughest fighter Ward has faced and we'll know a lot more when Carl lands a couple of early shots and how Ward reacts.

[Dan Dares]

It will be the hardest fight Ward's ever had. 50/50 for me. Come on the Cobra.