Ramon Castillo
-
ralph cathcart
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 13 Jul 2005, 12:40
Ramon Castillo
I am writing to follow up regarding the updating of the BOXREC data base for my father Ramon Castillo. Ramon Castillo, the son of Jamaican parents, was raised in Cuba. He turned pro at 16 and his first fight was against Dativo Fuentes in 1924. It was a one round KO. Newspapers state that his record from 1924 to 1948 was 154 wins with only 5 losses. He was brought to the U.S. by Gene Tunney's manager, Doc Bagley. From 1924 to 1928 my father only had one loss out of his first 54 fights. See Everlast Record book 1929. He then fought primarily in Europe (France and Spain) as a featherweight/lightweight from 1928 to 1937, where he beat many of the European champs in the lightweight, welter and middleweight divisions, including Jose de la Pena, Tomas Cola, Pedro Antonio, Angel Tejeiro, Angel Martinez, Piedrahita and Fritz Reppel. Circa 1936 he was beating Gustave Tigre Humery (French champ) when he was disqualified on a foul, thus losing chance at Tony Conzoneri. My father beat Black Pico in 1945 when he was close to forty years old. I have faxed relevant copies of Everlast Record book 1929 and Ring Record Book 1947 to BOXREC so that one of the editors can update his record. Please let me know if you have any questions. Also, thanks for correctly showing that my father won his fight against Battling Dozier (Newspaper decision not a No Decision) as stated in Everlast. Also, the loss to Eddie Kid Whalen was a DQ on a foul, and my father did not lose to Harry Wallach in 1925 (it was a draw). Also, he did not fight Mickey Flahive, I believe that was a Ramon Costello. If there is anyone who is familiar with my father's career or could assist me in obtaining info, please let me know. There are records of a fighter named Ray Castillo fighting until 1953. Could that be my father? His license expired in 1948. I would also be happy to answer any questions about my father's career as well. P.S. the draw mentioned in Everlast 1929 against california Joe Gans is Baby Joe Gans,
One Castillo fought Peter sung sometime before 1927, likely the same fighter.
We have 3 fighters with that nmame in the database -- perhaps all three records belong to the same man.
I will see if Cuban boxing expert Enrique Encinosa can add anything.
What would help is if you can provide date of birth, and date and place of death -- we might be able to find an obit that leads to additional info.
I'll chec over Everlast also.
We have 3 fighters with that nmame in the database -- perhaps all three records belong to the same man.
I will see if Cuban boxing expert Enrique Encinosa can add anything.
What would help is if you can provide date of birth, and date and place of death -- we might be able to find an obit that leads to additional info.
I'll chec over Everlast also.
-
ralph cathcart
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 13 Jul 2005, 12:40
Ramon Castillo - disciple of kid charol
Thanks mike. The Ramon Castillo that fought Peter Sung is a different person, a middleweight. Ramon Castillo was born April 7, 1907 and fought as a feather/lightweight for most of his career. Welter at the end, although he usually fought welters and middleweights. Everlast Records 1928 and 1929 has his birthdate as August 31, 1905, which is incorrect. Castillo's real last name is Cathcart, he's the son of Jamaican parents that moved to Cuba. The entries for Ramon Castillo on the database against Sammy White and M. Cherubin Durocher, are correct. The entry against Eddie Kid Whalen is incorrect, it was not a loss on points, but rather a DQ on an alleged foul. Also, I believe the entry against Mickey Flahive is incorrect, the correct boxer is Ramon Costello, not Castillo. The entries in the 1940's are correct against Black Pico. I look forward to hearing from the cuban expert!
WRITE ME AT
[email protected]
AND SEND ME COPIES OF WHATEVER YOU HAVE AND I WILL EDIT. ALSO I HAVE PHOTOS OF CASTILLO THAT I WILL GLADLY SCAN AND SEND YOU.
ENRIQUE ENCINOSA
[email protected]
AND SEND ME COPIES OF WHATEVER YOU HAVE AND I WILL EDIT. ALSO I HAVE PHOTOS OF CASTILLO THAT I WILL GLADLY SCAN AND SEND YOU.
ENRIQUE ENCINOSA
-
ralph cathcart
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 13 Jul 2005, 12:40
Record update of Ramon Castillo/The Cuban Barron
Many kudos to Enrique Encinosa, Editor for Cuban boxers. He has tirelessly updated the BoxRoc database with over sixty fights for Ramon Castillo! Please take a look. So far we have over 64 fights, however he had over 150 in U.S., France, Spain, Austria and Hungary! We will continue to keep those interested posted.
Looking again -- I may be wrong on the Alis fight -- but the Jack McVey bout is listed in Everlast as an exhibition
Also -- thee of the bouts for Ramon Castillo are already in the database under Ray Costello http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=184591
All three fights appear in Ramon Castillo's record in Everlast -- so I beleive the Ray Costello is Ramon Castillo -- newspaper work is needed!
I am going to sic NY expert Jack Kincaid on this one.
Also -- thee of the bouts for Ramon Castillo are already in the database under Ray Costello http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=184591
All three fights appear in Ramon Castillo's record in Everlast -- so I beleive the Ray Costello is Ramon Castillo -- newspaper work is needed!
I am going to sic NY expert Jack Kincaid on this one.
Actually, Mike, the Alis fight was probably featherweight Ramon Castillo, who gave away a lot of weight often. He was a gypsy road warrior who did not seem bothered spotting 20 pounds to an opponent. Being tall, the difference was probably in the weight and not in the reach. The featherweight Castillo seems to have been a lightweight who fought all up to middles and slimmed down to feather and fought Morasen and bantam Black Pico.
I don't think middleweight Castillo was a globe trotter or much of a main event fighter. The only fight for him is against Sung and he was probably a prelim opponent. He is not mentioned anywhere in my clippings except for the Sung file, which you have.
The Kid Chocolate bio does mention that Castillo was also known as Costello but the Chocolate bio has some glaring mistakes...
I don't think middleweight Castillo was a globe trotter or much of a main event fighter. The only fight for him is against Sung and he was probably a prelim opponent. He is not mentioned anywhere in my clippings except for the Sung file, which you have.
The Kid Chocolate bio does mention that Castillo was also known as Costello but the Chocolate bio has some glaring mistakes...
Last edited by enrique on 02 Aug 2005, 18:50, edited 1 time in total.
Besides all I've said above, I am now wondering if middleweight Castillo and feather Castillo are the same person, since we only have one fight for middleweight Castillo... whom we assume a middle since he appears in Sung's Jamaican Gleaner clipping, but could have been lighter giving away weight..
Also, feather Castillo fought bigger men most of his career and Sung started out as a lighter weight who grew into a middleweight. Sung and Castillo were active fighters from the "interior" provinces of Cuba and the Sung-Castillo fight is undated as per the Gleaner article, so it could have taken place in 1925 in either Las Villas -Sung's province- or Oriente- Castillo's province. Also, Sung and Castillo are both part of that group of very tough Cubans -Sung, Castillo, Eliseo Quintana, Serafin Centeno- who trotted all over fighting anyone. It's very likely that they would have clashed with each other.
How about consolidating the fight into The Cuban Barron's record with a comment additional to the already existing one regarding the source, stating: Bout needs further verification.
Although some sources list Castillo as Costello, I would wait before consolidating records, until we have further info on Ramon Costello.
What do you think, Mike?
Also, feather Castillo fought bigger men most of his career and Sung started out as a lighter weight who grew into a middleweight. Sung and Castillo were active fighters from the "interior" provinces of Cuba and the Sung-Castillo fight is undated as per the Gleaner article, so it could have taken place in 1925 in either Las Villas -Sung's province- or Oriente- Castillo's province. Also, Sung and Castillo are both part of that group of very tough Cubans -Sung, Castillo, Eliseo Quintana, Serafin Centeno- who trotted all over fighting anyone. It's very likely that they would have clashed with each other.
How about consolidating the fight into The Cuban Barron's record with a comment additional to the already existing one regarding the source, stating: Bout needs further verification.
Although some sources list Castillo as Costello, I would wait before consolidating records, until we have further info on Ramon Costello.
What do you think, Mike?
Continuing to ramble -for the third time in a row.
Based on the info we have I moved the Sung -Castillo match to Ramon Castillo's record with the comment: Date, round and venue unknown. This information comes from a Sung record published in Jamaica's Daily Gleaner in July 1927. Sung's opponent is likely to be The Cuban Baron, Ramon Castillo, a featherweight who often fought welters and middles.
As far as Castillo and Costello being one and the same the Kid Chocolate bio -in Spanish- quotes "Nocaut" -a Cuban magazine from 1932- that states that Castillo -a road warrior- had settled momentarily in Budapest, with a line that says "Castillo who calls himself Costello and is known in the nocturnal world as the Cuban Baron..."
Based on the info we have I moved the Sung -Castillo match to Ramon Castillo's record with the comment: Date, round and venue unknown. This information comes from a Sung record published in Jamaica's Daily Gleaner in July 1927. Sung's opponent is likely to be The Cuban Baron, Ramon Castillo, a featherweight who often fought welters and middles.
As far as Castillo and Costello being one and the same the Kid Chocolate bio -in Spanish- quotes "Nocaut" -a Cuban magazine from 1932- that states that Castillo -a road warrior- had settled momentarily in Budapest, with a line that says "Castillo who calls himself Costello and is known in the nocturnal world as the Cuban Baron..."
Last edited by enrique on 02 Aug 2005, 18:56, edited 1 time in total.
Continuing to ramble -for the third time in a row.
Based on the info we have I moved the Sung -Castillo match to Raqmon Castillo's record with the comment: Date, round and venue unknown. This information comes from a Sung record published in Jamaica's Daily Gleaner in July 1927. Sung's opponent is likely to be The Cuban Baron, Ramon Castillo, a featherweight who often fought welters and middles.
As far as Castillo and Costello being one and the same the Kid Chocolate bio -in Spanish- quotes "Nocaut" -a Cuban magazine from 1932- that states that Castillo -a road warrior- had settled momentarily in Budapest, with a line that says "Castillo who calls himself Costello and is known in the nocturnal world as the Cuban Baron..."
I agree with Mike De lisa that we should do more homework, although as pointed out in another one of these board messages, the costello fights are consolidated with Castillo in the Everlast book... so that's two pieces of info linking Castillo and Costello.
So what do you guys think?
Based on the info we have I moved the Sung -Castillo match to Raqmon Castillo's record with the comment: Date, round and venue unknown. This information comes from a Sung record published in Jamaica's Daily Gleaner in July 1927. Sung's opponent is likely to be The Cuban Baron, Ramon Castillo, a featherweight who often fought welters and middles.
As far as Castillo and Costello being one and the same the Kid Chocolate bio -in Spanish- quotes "Nocaut" -a Cuban magazine from 1932- that states that Castillo -a road warrior- had settled momentarily in Budapest, with a line that says "Castillo who calls himself Costello and is known in the nocturnal world as the Cuban Baron..."
I agree with Mike De lisa that we should do more homework, although as pointed out in another one of these board messages, the costello fights are consolidated with Castillo in the Everlast book... so that's two pieces of info linking Castillo and Costello.
So what do you guys think?
I have enlsited the aid of Jack Kincaid and we are meeting at the NYPL on Thursday. I am pretty sure the Costello who fought Wallach (3 fights in Boxrec) is ramon Castillo. Also, there is another armory fight for a ray castillo that fits as well.
Re Sung -- same thing -- only I would place it early 1924 -- that is, in Cuba before Castillo came to the States.
I will go through the few issues of Boxeo, from barcelona, to see if anything else turns up. I sure would like to look at any clippings available.
Re Sung -- same thing -- only I would place it early 1924 -- that is, in Cuba before Castillo came to the States.
I will go through the few issues of Boxeo, from barcelona, to see if anything else turns up. I sure would like to look at any clippings available.
-
ralph cathcart
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 13 Jul 2005, 12:40
Ramon Castillo/Peter Sung
Enrique and Mike:
I don't believe the Peter Sung fight is Ramon Castillo. Several newspaper articles say Castillo's FIRST professional fight was against Dativo Fuente, including Castillo himself. The first fight against Fuentes was in 1924. Also, my father did not return to the carribean for almost nine years when he left for the states in 1924. Thus, the fight could not have occurred with my father after 1924. Lastly, my father stated that he obtained the name Castillo from a friend in boxing, because he was too young to turn pro. Perhaps that's the Castillo listed against Sung.
I don't believe the Peter Sung fight is Ramon Castillo. Several newspaper articles say Castillo's FIRST professional fight was against Dativo Fuente, including Castillo himself. The first fight against Fuentes was in 1924. Also, my father did not return to the carribean for almost nine years when he left for the states in 1924. Thus, the fight could not have occurred with my father after 1924. Lastly, my father stated that he obtained the name Castillo from a friend in boxing, because he was too young to turn pro. Perhaps that's the Castillo listed against Sung.
-
ralph cathcart
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 13 Jul 2005, 12:40
Ramon Castillo
Please see my post re: Peter Sung. Extremely doubtful that Peter Sung ever fought Ramon Castillo. Ralph cathcart.
Ralph, the Castillo-Sung fight is more than probable because:
1. The date in Sung's record on the Jamaica Gleaner is 1927, listing fights from 1922-1927 for Sung. The Sung victory over Castillo is not given a date in the clipping but is entirely posible in 1924, when both were active young pros in Cuba. No one is disputing the Dativo Fuentes as Castillo's first fight, but it is entirely possible that they fought at some time in that first year.
2. Geographical proximity. Sung fought out of Sancti-Spiritus and Castillo out of Santiago. These cities are within a few hours of each other and it was common for fighters to trade leather in different venues. The proximity provides a feasible probability.
3. Level of activity. Sung and Castillo were very active fighters. Each had over 100 fights in their careers. They were willing to fight anywhere and anyone, without coddling, so it makes it likely they would have clashed at least once and maybe several times.
4. Weight. Castillo was a featherweight who could come in at lightweight and fought every one from bantam to middle. Sung started as lightweight and matured into a middle. Their weights in 1924 were certainly within the featherweight to junior welter level which also would have made the fight feasable.
5. After doing some assembly of featherweight Castillo's record we have several dozen fights. The other Castillo has only the Sung fight. If after Ramon left Cuba we had one -or more- dated fights in Cuba for Castillo II, we could argue they were different people. We don't have that so one could assume they are one and the same.
Based on that data, I believe the Cuban Baron fought Sung.
There's also a very solid possibility that Castillo was also Costello, as per different sources -like the Chocolate bio- that so state it. "Nocaut" -a Cuban magazine from 1932- states "Castillo who calls himself Costello and is known in the nocturnal world as the Cuban Baron..."
Let's see what Mike comes up with at the New York Public library on Thursday.
1. The date in Sung's record on the Jamaica Gleaner is 1927, listing fights from 1922-1927 for Sung. The Sung victory over Castillo is not given a date in the clipping but is entirely posible in 1924, when both were active young pros in Cuba. No one is disputing the Dativo Fuentes as Castillo's first fight, but it is entirely possible that they fought at some time in that first year.
2. Geographical proximity. Sung fought out of Sancti-Spiritus and Castillo out of Santiago. These cities are within a few hours of each other and it was common for fighters to trade leather in different venues. The proximity provides a feasible probability.
3. Level of activity. Sung and Castillo were very active fighters. Each had over 100 fights in their careers. They were willing to fight anywhere and anyone, without coddling, so it makes it likely they would have clashed at least once and maybe several times.
4. Weight. Castillo was a featherweight who could come in at lightweight and fought every one from bantam to middle. Sung started as lightweight and matured into a middle. Their weights in 1924 were certainly within the featherweight to junior welter level which also would have made the fight feasable.
5. After doing some assembly of featherweight Castillo's record we have several dozen fights. The other Castillo has only the Sung fight. If after Ramon left Cuba we had one -or more- dated fights in Cuba for Castillo II, we could argue they were different people. We don't have that so one could assume they are one and the same.
Based on that data, I believe the Cuban Baron fought Sung.
There's also a very solid possibility that Castillo was also Costello, as per different sources -like the Chocolate bio- that so state it. "Nocaut" -a Cuban magazine from 1932- states "Castillo who calls himself Costello and is known in the nocturnal world as the Cuban Baron..."
Let's see what Mike comes up with at the New York Public library on Thursday.
Ramon Castillo vs Angel Tejeiro
Hello, I am the grandson of Angel Tejeiro, Spanish boxer that, on the June 13, 2005 message, is said to have been beaten by Ramon Castillo (also included in the boxrec database). It’s no big deal, but just for the accuracy of the records, please note that Tejeiro and Castillo fought two times, and in both times Tejeiro obtained the victory by points. There was a first appointment on December 13, 1927, postponed to December 23, in which Castillo had some kind of problem to fight and was finally replaced by Pedro Antonio (as can be checked in the 1927-12-18 edition of the newspaper El Mundo Deportivo, page 1, available at www.elmundodeportivo.es/hemeroteca; also in the 1928-12-24 edition of La Vanguardia, page 16, available at www.lavanguardia.es/hemeroteca). The first fight Tejeiro-Castillo took place on 1928-01-18 with the aforementioned result of victory by points for Tejeiro (Mundo Deportivo, 1928-01-16 page 1, and 1928-01-20 page 1; same web reference); the second fight took place on 1928-05-25 and Castillo fought in the place of Isidro Perez, lightweight champion of Spain (Mundo Deportivo, 1928-05-27, p2). By the way, these internet sources are of a great value for anyone looking for info from boxers who fought in Spain. Kind regards, anyway, and I’m glad to seen that the old glories are still somehow present.
R. Tejeiro
R. Tejeiro