The greatest fights of the greatest heavyweights

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 17 Jul 2005, 14:21

Of the greatest heavies of all time what were their 5 best wins? I'll start the ball rolling with Ali:

Muhammad Ali
1964 - Sonny Liston TKO 7, Miami
1965 - Sonny Liston KO 1, Lewiston
1974 - George Foreman KO 8, Zaire
1975 - Joe Frazier TKO 14, Phillippines
1978 - Leon Spinks UD 15, New Orleans

dnahar32 · Post by **dnahar32** » 17 Jul 2005, 15:39

Considering that the Liston rematch may have been fixed, I would go with Ali's destruction of Cleveland Williams and his footwork that night. I've never seen Ali look better.

Ali won the Spinks fight almost by default (Spinks partied away after the first win) and past his prime. I would substitute Ali's win over Oscar Bonavena. To go into deep waters with the fighter that gave Frazier hell and 1 fight removed from a 3 1/2 year layoff was much more impressive. If he doesn't tough out that fight, Ali-Frazier would have been significantly less important.

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 17 Jul 2005, 16:02

I did wonder about the Liston rematch, and whether to include the 60's wins over Williams or Terrell instead. I include the Spinks rematch mainly because of Ali's age at the time making it such a good achievement.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 17 Jul 2005, 17:14

ive decided to do five best fights.

Rocky Marciano:

1951: Joe Louis KO 8
1952: Jersey Joe Walcott KO 13
1954: Ezzard Charles W 15u
1954: Ezzard Charles KO 8
1955: Archie Moore KO 9

Joe Louis

1935: Max Baer KO 4
1938: Max Schmelling KO 1
1941: Abe Simon TKO 13
1941: Billy Conn KO 13
1948: Jersey Joe Walcott KO 11

Ezzard Charles:

1942: Charley Burley W 10u - fight at middleweight
1947: Lloyd Marshall KO 2
1948: Archie Moore KO 8
1951: Jersey Joe Walcott II W 15u
1954: Rocky Marciano L 15u

Jersey Joe Walcott:

1946: Jimmy Bivins W 10s
1947: Joe Louis L 15s
1951: Ezzard Charles KO 7
1952: Ezzard Charles W 15u
1952: Rocky Marciano KO'd 13

George Foreman:

1973: Joe Frazier TKO 2
1974: Ken Norton TKO 2
1976: Ron Lyle KO 5
1976: Joe Frazier TKO 5
1994: Micheal Moorer KO 10- i have to put this on there

Larry Holmes:

1978: earnie shavers W 12u
1978: Ken Norton W 15s
1979: Earnie Shavers TKO 11
1981: Trevor Berbick W 15u
1982: Gerry Cooney TKO 13

Mike Tyson:

1986: Trevor Berbick TKO 2
1987: Pinklon Thomas TKO 6
1988: Larry Holmes TKO 4
1988: Tony Tubbs TKO 2
1988: Micheal Spinks KO 1

Sonny Liston:

1959: Cleveland Williams TKO 3
1960: Zora Folley KO 3
1960: Eddie Machen W 12u
1962: Floyd Patterson KO 1
1963: Floyd Patterson KO 1

Joe Frazier:

1967: George Chuvalo TKO 4
1969: Jerry Quarry TKO 7
1970: Jimmy Ellis TKO 4
1970: Bob Foster KO 8
1971: Muhammad ALi W 15u

Jack Dempsey:

1919: Jess Willard TKO 3
1921: Georges Carpentier KO 4
1923: Luis Angel Firpo TKO 2
1923: Tommy Gibbons W 15u
1927: Jack Sharkey KO 7

Lennox Lewis:

1992: Donavan Razor Ruddock KO 2
1997: Andrew Golota KO 1
1999: Evander Holyfield W 12u
2001: Hasim Rahman KO 4
2002: Mike Tyson KO 8

[/b]

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 17 Jul 2005, 17:15

those are my five best fights/ best wins. so even though louis and foreman didnt preform well against walcott and moorer, those wins get recognition cause walcott was a great champion and foreman was 45.

Hesketh Vampire · Post by **Hesketh Vampire** » 17 Jul 2005, 17:23

George Foreman
1973 - Joe Frazier TKO 2, Jamaica
1974 - Ken Norton TKO 2, Venezuela
1976 - Ron Lyle KO 5, Las Vegas
1990 - Gerry Cooney TKO 2, Atlantic City
1994 - Michael Moorer KO 10, Las Vegas

Not at all sure about including the Cooney win over a whole bunch of other fights, but it was George's first really "live" opponent of the comeback, and Cooney shook George up pretty good in the first round.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 18 Jul 2005, 02:13

James J Braddock
(The Bulldog of Bergen, The Hope of The Irish Future, Cinderella Man)

1) 15 round UD over Max Baer
2) 10 round SD over Tommy Farr
3) 10 round decision on points over John Henry Lewis
4) 2 round TKO over Gerald Tuffy Griffith
5) 15 UD over Art Lasky

ps: i bought both books on JJB , one written by micheal c. delisa, and one written by jeremy schaap... they are both excellent excellent boxing reads, not just if ur a JJB fan but a boxing fan in general..or if u just love american heroes, and tales of courage

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 18 Jul 2005, 10:50

Dempsey- People point to his more famous title wins over Firpo, Williard, and the Orchid Man but he had better wins against better opponents before he won the title.

Billy Miske ND-W10

Fred Fulton KO-1

Bill Brennan KO6

Tommy Gibbons W15

Battling Levinsky KO3

Here's Joe Frazier:

Jimmy Ellis KO 4

Jerry Quarry TKO 7

Muhammad Ali W15

Oscar Bonavena W10

Buster Mathis KO 11

Joe Louis:

Max Schmeling KO 1

Max Baer KO 4

Lou Nova KO6

Arturo Godoy KO8

Jersey Joe Walcott KO 11

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 18 Jul 2005, 18:57

nice... i LOVE dempsey thanks for the input

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 19 Jul 2005, 13:14

dempseyfire, i defiently think dempseys win over willard should be in there. it was the biggest beating in heavyweight history and giant willard was the favorite. dempsey just took the much larger man apart proving size isnt as big a deal. his firpo win must ocunt cause it was a classic battle and firpo was the hardest hitter he had faced. and he got up from 2 KD's to win.

dempseyfire wrote [/quote] Here's Joe Frazier:

Jimmy Ellis KO 4

Jerry Quarry TKO 7

Muhammad Ali W15

Oscar Bonavena W10

Buster Mathis KO 11

Joe Louis:

Max Schmeling KO 1

Max Baer KO 4

Lou Nova KO6

Arturo Godoy KO8

Jersey Joe Walcott KO 11

i disgree about frazier bonevane w10 deciison. frazier was floored twice and nearly lost the close decision. frazier was youn and defintely not one of his better fights. fraziers rematch with bonevena should be on there. he dominated bonaven for 15 rounds. and i dont think his KO of buster mathi should be on there. the fight was close when frazierk onocked him out. fraziers TKO 4 win over a prime chuvalo was better cause frazier went out their and took apart a fighter who was rarely stopped in his career.

as for joe louis, his win over tough abe simon was better than lou nova cause simon was the better challenger and simon was big powerful and louis dominated him for 13 reounds. also , louis win over conn should count cause louis showed the heart and brains in that match by knocking conn out late when he needed to. also no one had come close to beating conn for years and conn was an all time great

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 19 Jul 2005, 18:40

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:dempseyfire, i defiently think dempseys win over willard should be in there. it was the biggest beating in heavyweight history and giant willard was the favorite. dempsey just took the much larger man apart proving size isnt as big a deal. his firpo win must ocunt cause it was a classic battle and firpo was the hardest hitter he had faced. and he got up from 2 KD's to win.

dempseyfire wrote

Here's Joe Frazier:

Jimmy Ellis KO 4

Jerry Quarry TKO 7

Muhammad Ali W15

Oscar Bonavena W10

Buster Mathis KO 11

Joe Louis:

Max Schmeling KO 1

Max Baer KO 4

Lou Nova KO6

Arturo Godoy KO8

Jersey Joe Walcott KO 11

i disgree about frazier bonevane w10 deciison. frazier was floored twice and nearly lost the close decision. frazier was youn and defintely not one of his better fights. fraziers rematch with bonevena should be on there. he dominated bonaven for 15 rounds. and i dont think his KO of buster mathi should be on there. the fight was close when frazierk onocked him out. fraziers TKO 4 win over a prime chuvalo was better cause frazier went out their and took apart a fighter who was rarely stopped in his career.

as for joe louis, his win over tough abe simon was better than lou nova cause simon was the better challenger and simon was big powerful and louis dominated him for 13 reounds. also , louis win over conn should count cause louis showed the heart and brains in that match by knocking conn out late when he needed to. also no one had come close to beating conn for years and conn was an all time great

[/quote]

Williard was 38, coming off of 3 years inactivity, under-estimated his challenger, and overweight. The carnage provided for good press and drama but beating he had much better wins then against old Jess.

Firpo was dramatic but mainly a one-sided beating save the KD out of the ropes when the South American shoves Jack out of the ring. Firpo was a press job hyped by Doc Kearns but in reality an extreamly crude brawler with next to no boxing skill who made his record off of shot HWs. Also, earlier victims Morris and Fulton (and maybe even Brennan) hit just as hard as Firpo.

I included his first fight against Bonavena b/c it showed how great Joe really was, coming back from the brink of a KO loss to comfortably win the fight on my scorecard. And this was Joe's 12 PROFESSIONAL FIGHT!!! Can you imagine any contender of the past 20 years facing a top, hard punching guy like Oscar in under 15 fights? Only Oleg Masgaev did something as crazy and he got knocked out in all those fights . . .

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 19 Jul 2005, 18:44

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

dempseyfire wrote

Joe Louis:

Max Schmeling KO 1

Max Baer KO 4

Lou Nova KO6

Arturo Godoy KO8

Jersey Joe Walcott KO 11

as for joe louis, his win over tough abe simon was better than lou nova cause simon was the better challenger and simon was big powerful and louis dominated him for 13 reounds. also , louis win over conn should count cause louis showed the heart and brains in that match by knocking conn out late when he needed to. also no one had come close to beating conn for years and conn was an all time great

[/quote]

Conn was great but still a light HW. Louis had an off night and straightened out and knocked Conn out.

Nova was a much better fighter then Simon. I don't know where you get that Abe was the better challenger . . .he was a gentle giant without great power for his size. Buddy Baer was a better win for Louis then Simon. In fact, both Nova and Baer beat Simon.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 19 Jul 2005, 19:20

dempseyfire wrote:
Here's Joe Frazier:

Jimmy Ellis KO 4

Jerry Quarry TKO 7

Muhammad Ali W15

Oscar Bonavena W10

Buster Mathis KO 11

I sure hope that isn't in any order...because Frazier's win over Ali may be the biggest win of any heavyweight fight in history...

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 19 Jul 2005, 23:33

calm down sweet scientist it isnt. and it certainly wanst the biggest upset in heavyweight history.

douglas beating tyson is far great upset. frazier was undefeated and a champion and had taken out most of the challengers while ali hadnt fough in 3 years then came back to stop quarry and have a hard time with bonevena.

braddock over baer huge upset. ali over foreman was. frazier over ali wasnt.

dempsey fire, i still think jess willard was the best heavyweight he beat, and i think firpos right hand was more powerful punch than any other heavyweights he beat.

and as for louis i agree with u, after looking up and watching again, i came to ur conclusion . nova was the better out of simon and buddy baer. lou was pretty good and knocked out twice an aging max baer who was past his prime but still good neough to knock out galento. he did KO an undefeated abe simon who wasnt too expierenced. however i could make a case for galento since he KOed nova.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 19 Jul 2005, 23:34

and conn should be on there. conn was one of the greatest light-H and louis didnt fight too bad of a fight, its conn fought a great fight and masterplan and this fight showed louis heart. it was one of louis best wins and 2nd most famous win

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 20 Jul 2005, 10:42

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:calm down sweet scientist it isnt. and it certainly wanst the biggest upset in heavyweight history.

douglas beating tyson is far great upset. frazier was undefeated and a champion and had taken out most of the challengers while ali hadnt fough in 3 years then came back to stop quarry and have a hard time with bonevena.

braddock over baer huge upset. ali over foreman was. frazier over ali wasnt.

dempsey fire, i still think jess willard was the best heavyweight he beat, and i think firpos right hand was more powerful punch than any other heavyweights he beat.

and as for louis i agree with u, after looking up and watching again, i came to ur conclusion . nova was the better out of simon and buddy baer. lou was pretty good and knocked out twice an aging max baer who was past his prime but still good neough to knock out galento. he did KO an undefeated abe simon who wasnt too expierenced. however i could make a case for galento since he KOed nova.

If you read more about Miske, Brennan, Fulton etc. I think you'll agree Williard was def. not the best HW Jack beat.

Regarding Nova, it's not who beat who. Nova was the best all around fighter of that group of B. Baer, Simon, Galento etc.
He was a good puncher, had very solid skills, and a good chin.
Galento was a great puncher and took a great punch but he was very limited skill-wise.
Simon actually had decent skills for a big man but was not a huge puncher.
Buddy Baer had a big punch and ok skills but was not nearly as refined as Nova.

witherspoon · Post by **witherspoon** » 20 Jul 2005, 11:00

Here's top 5 for terrible tim:
1: WON 12 LARRY HOLMES

2: won 5 J.L Gonzalez
3: won 12 G.Page
4: won 11 F.Bruno
5: won 1 A.Eklund

Friedie · Post by **Friedie** » 17 Oct 2005, 10:22

Max Schmeling:

1936 Joe Louis (K.o. 12)
1931 Young Stribling (t.K.o. 15)
1932 Mickey Walker (t.K.o. 8 )
1929 Johnny Risko (t.K.o. 9)
1937 Harry Thomas (K.o. 8 )

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 17 Oct 2005, 12:31

dnahar32 wrote:I would go with Ali's destruction of Cleveland Williams and his footwork that night. I've never seen Ali look better.

That sure says alot about Ali, doesn't it.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 17 Oct 2005, 13:09

Decagon wrote:Is the author of this topic trying to suggest that Leon Spinks was a great heavyweight? If so, someone please tell me how to use the "ignore" list on this topic.

I think he's simply refering to the historical significance of the win over Spinks.