Nick Peet ''Stephen Smith Ruined By Joe Gallagher''

[Cotto16]

Liverpool boxing writer Nick Peet tweeted

Love Stephen Smith, ruined by Joe Gallagher... Most overrated coach in British Boxing... Devastated... Swifty was world class...

http://twitter.com/#!/Peety_FOeditor

WOW. Thats a bold statement.

[15829]

Liverpool boxing writer Nick Peet tweeted

Love Stephen Smith, ruined by Joe Gallagher... Most overrated coach in British Boxing... Devastated... Swifty was world class...

http://twitter.com/#!/Peety_FOeditor

WOW. Thats a bold statement.

i agree wioth nick peet, am a big smith fan but hes neglecting his boxing and trying to fight like john murray, zero head movement

[jBacca]

On recent form I'd agree with Nick.

Stephen hasn't shown any of the boxing ability that he has. He's turned into a pressure fighter and while it works for some, it obviously doesn't work for others.

Hopefully we get to see what Stephen really can do, I don't think he'll show his potential if he stays under Gallagher though.

[stevek3lly]

It is hard to agree that Joe is the most overrated trainer out there when he has the quality of camp that he has. You do not build up a stable as good as he has being overrated. He might have areas to work on and can improve on things, but hey so can some much more experienced trainers.

Remember Joe is still a bit of a pro novice only working the corner in just over 50 fights and a lot of that was simple wins. Nights like Saturday need to be learned from and improved on.

[wrimc]

It is hard to agree that Joe is the most overrated trainer out there when he has the quality of camp that he has. You do not build up a stable as good as he has being overrated. He might have areas to work on and can improve on things, but hey so can some much more experienced trainers.

Remember Joe is still a bit of a pro novice only working the corner in just over 50 fights and a lot of that was simple wins. Nights like Saturday need to be learned from and improved on.

I agree with what you are saying but how many of his fighters can afford these lessons?

[LeedsLad]

One defeat - let's all blame the trainer

Nah, he just didn't perform on the night and was well beaten..... he can bounce back, needs to work on his defence, his ring discipline and also fighting in close.

One loss doesn't make him a bum, but it's important that he goes back to the drawing board and works on things, which I'm sure he knows.

I'd like to see him back in the ring within two months, though it's unlikely - a quick six round knockover, or maybe a couple - then straight back into title contention.

[idle talk]

IMO I don't think Stephens fighting the way he should be, hes mixing it up and loading up too much for me, instead of nicking rounds and looking good. I think he will come back alot better! He is quality. More head movement and lateral body movement like Kevin Mitchell.

[15829]

One defeat - let's all blame the trainer

Nah, he just didn't perform on the night and was well beaten..... he can bounce back, needs to work on his defence, his ring discipline and also fighting in close.

One loss doesn't make him a bum, but it's important that he goes back to the drawing board and works on things, which I'm sure he knows.

I'd like to see him back in the ring within two months, though it's unlikely - a quick six round knockover, or maybe a couple - then straight back into title contention.

its the manner of the defeat and smith not using his better boxing skills

[LeedsLad]

One defeat - let's all blame the trainer

Nah, he just didn't perform on the night and was well beaten..... he can bounce back, needs to work on his defence, his ring discipline and also fighting in close.

One loss doesn't make him a bum, but it's important that he goes back to the drawing board and works on things, which I'm sure he knows.

I'd like to see him back in the ring within two months, though it's unlikely - a quick six round knockover, or maybe a couple - then straight back into title contention.

its the manner of the defeat and smith not using his better boxing skills

That's obviously a concern, he just doesn't fight often enough.... which is a problem for all Warren fighters.

Simpson can drag practically anyone into a scrap so it didn't concern me at first, but a few things on Saturday were alarming, and would have been win or lose.

[15829]

he looked flat from round 1 the writing was on the wall, i scored every round to selby ive never seen smith box so badly ever something just wasnt right, selbys with warren now so hopefully a rematch wonnt be hard to arrange

[LeedsLad]

He did look flat I agree.

Was it the weight? I don't think he looks particularly tight but you never know.

Hopefully Simpson gets the first shot at Selby, then Smith gets the winner.

[15829]

i think maybe he thought after the simpson fights that selby was less of a challenge and under prepared, but smith is not a gallagher type of fighter hes a boxer and its like hes becoming a murray clone

[frankgreaves]

IMO any trainer should be able to adapt to the particular boxers skills, or lack of!! Smith is clearly capable of boxing better than he did, he has the skills to do so, we've seen him do so! No head movement on saturday, moved in straight lines all night! That said, fair play to Selby, who was / is very underrated, he is very sharp, punches much harder than his record suggests & has a style that can be hard to fathom out! It was disappointing to see swifty boxing in the same style as Murray as he is better than that, IMO the "I'll walk thru anything you throw" style can only take you so far unless you are MASSIVE at the weight, make the weight easy & have a GRANITE GRANITE GRANITE chin & even then we see those type of fighters come unstuck at the top level (katsidis, murray etc etc). There has to be a middle ground, yes pressure, but educated pressure with head movement before & AFTER you let your shots go. I see so many fighters that throw punches then just hang around to be hit?? Why?? Throw, move, start again. Move, throw, defend, move. Don't just stand to be hit!!

[LeedsLad]

I think the issue with pressure fighters is that they need a dig in order to succeed the further up in level they go.... Hatton (for example) was banging over domestic opponents with relative ease generally, and also in his WBU run - mostly against ''European class'' kinda fighters, despite many of them being American.

Without the dig to get the opponent's respect they can be outboxed and counterpunched much easier, an opponent is more likely to meet them in the middle of the ring and have a war.

Smith has the added problem of being a particularly weak inside fighter, favouring holding rather than working in close.

It does seem that our trainers generally can be pretty easily typecast in terms of how their fighters go about their work.

Gallagher - pressure fighters
Booth - runners
Ingle - switch hitters
Graham - body punchers
Nelson - high work rate

Obviously there's a few blurred lines here but a general theme can be established, that's contrary to other trainers such as Roach who tend to work with the tools they are given and make them the best package they can.

I'm not saying for one minute that Americans are better, in fact quite the opposite.

Steward has struggled with a fair few fighters, and Mayweather sr completely disarmed Oscar for instance.

[ArtOfWar]

Smith isn't big enough, physically strong enough and he doesn't hit hard enough to fight the way he did Saturday. Why try and be a pressure fighter when your skill set is clearly set out for you to be a boxer?

[themadmariner]

The thing that would concern me is that in the corner at the end of the 7th round Glalagher told Smith that he was doing fine, but just needed to get caught less.

I know the trainer has to motivate his fighter, but surely he must have known Smith wasn't winning the fight and should have been telling him to either try something different or improve his work.

Whilst Smith has to accept his own failings caused the loss, surely some of the blame has to be attached to Gallagher too?

[dbf]

Smith barely resembled the boxer that was a standout amateur. The thing that surprises me about Gallagher is that he has a long background in developing amateur boxers, so why when they turn pro is he changing quality stylists into pressure fighters?

I don't subscribe to the "you need to plant your feet more as a pro" - it just ruins some good amateurs style when they turn over and they struggle with people they would have played with using their am style. Granted, they need to be better conditioned to do 4,6,8 10 or 12 rounds but their style could remain fundementally the same.

Paquiao and Khan both utilise more amateur styles - lots of footwork, stinging combinations and more in and out style.

[DIRT SUGAR]

I think Smith's another case of a fighter thrown in to 12-round title fights too early and there's only one way you're going to go if you're not quite ready and that's down. Two really hard fights against Simpson. Not surprised he was flat. Needs careful rebuilding and to work on his defence.

[bad mamma jamma]

u dont need a trainer to tell you to move your feckin head more. its down to the boxer on this occasion IMO. he took selby lightly and could not adapt after he found out it was going to be harder that he thought.

[cutthecacklebullyup]

I think Smith's another case of a fighter thrown in to 12-round title fights too early and there's only one way you're going to go if you're not quite ready and that's down. Two really hard fights against Simpson. Not surprised he was flat. Needs careful rebuilding and to work on his defence.

you might have a point m8 similar profile to that of paul appleby in terms of records and decent amatuer pedigrees then flung into hard twelve rounders after 11 or 12 fights only to look drained and sluggish there after in fights both were expected to win.hopefully see appleby back to his best against walsh after lay off and big billy [am the greatest] nelson,s help!

[Bomber 1]

You can't blame trainers, what I will say is, I've known Stephen a long time and trained alongside him a long and what I will say is that he's one of the fittest kids I've ever trained with! He is so driven and works so hard! That's why me and pricey were so shocked that he looked flat after a round! Imho I think he has pushed himself too much! It is a fine line in overtraining and getting it just right, Selby had the fight tactics spot on and should be credited..

I think Stephen will learn from this, it's come close to happening to me a few times, when I've had dates moved and one thing or another goes wrong, it must be said, a loss can be the making of some fighters and I don't need to mention there names cos there is so many! When your as driven as Stephen is the only way is up IMO...

[derry]

You can't blame trainers, what I will say is, I've known Stephen a long time and trained alongside him a long and what I will say is that he's one of the fittest kids I've ever trained with! He is so driven and works so hard! That's why me and pricey were so shocked that he looked flat after a round! Imho I think he has pushed himself too much! It is a fine line in overtraining and getting it just right, Selby had the fight tactics spot on and should be credited..

I think Stephen will learn from this, it's come close to happening to me a few times, when I've had dates moved and one thing or another goes wrong, it must be said, a loss can be the making of some fighters and I don't need to mention there names cos there is so many! When your as driven as Stephen is the only way is up IMO...

i agree with bomber i trained and sparred with ste for a few years when he first turned pro he is the fittest person i have ever seen and have never seen a runner like him , a bad night at the office , one defeat wont make him a bad fighter he will be back stronger and trust me he will win many more titles have always said it to people hes the best person i have ever sparred his workrate and varierty of shots is world class , head up swift and get back were you beleng mate to the top

[whiskey]

Gallagher knows that if your taking plaudits from winning, then you need to take responsibility for losing.

But Selby is the one who needs discussing, he is simply a man with a style to beat Smith, who fought the wrong fight given his style and skill set. He mis-applied himself and didn't fight to his own strengths.

Like Bellew says, it's a wake-up call.

But regardless that was a heavy heavy loss. He was banjo'd. Those type of losses don't improve anyone I'm sad to report. His ability to take a shot could affect him mentally. He could lose confidence as a result.

[jBacca]

You can't blame trainers, what I will say is, I've known Stephen a long time and trained alongside him a long and what I will say is that he's one of the fittest kids I've ever trained with! He is so driven and works so hard! That's why me and pricey were so shocked that he looked flat after a round! Imho I think he has pushed himself too much! It is a fine line in overtraining and getting it just right, Selby had the fight tactics spot on and should be credited..

I think Stephen will learn from this, it's come close to happening to me a few times, when I've had dates moved and one thing or another goes wrong, it must be said, a loss can be the making of some fighters and I don't need to mention there names cos there is so many! When your as driven as Stephen is the only way is up IMO...

Tony, regardless of Stephen looking flat, don't you think the tactics were wrong?

I think there was once or twice where Swifty actually threw a 4/5 punch combination up close as opposed to the telegraphed left/right hooks. They were very brief moments but as we know, Stephen could do this all night. Instead we got to see Stephen try and bully his way through Selby which proved his undoing in my eyes (as opposed to looking flat).

[bripez]

But regardless that was a heavy heavy loss. He was banjo'd. Those type of losses don't improve anyone I'm sad to report. His ability to take a shot could affect him mentally. He could lose confidence as a result.

Good point.