everyone talks about the upset of bonecrusher over witherspoon but i think this was a big upset.
thomas was undefeated, and in the prime of his life. he had drew with experienced contender champ coatzee while still pretty young, and coatzee in his next fight Kaoed dokes to win title. he then beat undefeated champ tim witherspoon and defended it against former WBA champ miek weaver by stopping weaver.
and berbick was knocked out by bernado mercado in the 1st round by one punch, and drew with leroy caldwell. got his first title shot when he knocked out john tate in 9. he then gave decent preformance against holmes taking him the distance and not getting shut out. he then beat ali, and undefeated page, only to lose two in a row to renaldo snipes and st gordon. he really did desrve a title shot having just beat david bey and mitch green.
but he went out their and upset thomas with a close unanimopus decision.
how do u guys score that fight??? how did berbick beat thomas, what stradegies did he use. never saw the fight.
Trevor Berbick vs Pinklon Thomas
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
...the thing i remember most about this fight is when pink came back to his corner one handler kept saying "you aint trying"....and in a late round when he heard the same thing pink said, "what do you want me to do" and this handler said "damned if i know"
as for the fight itself berbeck kept charging in and pink didn't have that excellent jab of his going well...he landed some good shots though but berbeck shook them off and kept coming.
i really don't see this as a big upset...only because neither fighter was that well known or very highly regarded...compared to others mentione here.
as for the fight itself berbeck kept charging in and pink didn't have that excellent jab of his going well...he landed some good shots though but berbeck shook them off and kept coming.
i really don't see this as a big upset...only because neither fighter was that well known or very highly regarded...compared to others mentione here.
Berbick was very underrated... he was very strong and had a style which his opponents found awkawrd. Though he usually stood square on he wasn't easy to hit and had good power himself.
People often forget that Berbick was the first to take Holmes the distance in a title defence.... the first to beat Greg Page.... etc.
He beat Thomas in a simular way to how he beat Page in that he forced the fight, outhustled and outmusceled thomas and also used his own jab very well at times..... all in all he fought a very clever fight.
One of Berbicks cornermen if I remember rightly was none other than 'The Hawk' Kid Gavilan himself!... which must have been pretty inspiring for Berbick.
People often forget that Berbick was the first to take Holmes the distance in a title defence.... the first to beat Greg Page.... etc.
He beat Thomas in a simular way to how he beat Page in that he forced the fight, outhustled and outmusceled thomas and also used his own jab very well at times..... all in all he fought a very clever fight.
One of Berbicks cornermen if I remember rightly was none other than 'The Hawk' Kid Gavilan himself!... which must have been pretty inspiring for Berbick.
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overhand_right
- Heavyweight
The only person in this thread who seems to have a clue here is Silkov.
1. Pinklon Thomas was on heroin in his TEENS. once he quit cold turkey he never went back, so dont try blaim his loss to Berbick on cocaine.
2. My man jaclems mind seems to be decaying rapidly because our Oracle here says neither man was highly regarded. Jaclem at the time Pinklon Thomas was the most highly regarded heavy IN THE WORLD!!!
In 85 after he iced Weaver he was held above Larry Holmes by the public and boxing press. The general opinion was that Holmes was sliding & Pinky was numero uno.
3. Berbicks style may not have been pretty but he was a top heavyweight. Sometimes he was hot & cold but when he was hot he had the ability to ice John Tate & David Bey, outhustle Mitch Green & Greg Page, and beat the hell out of Muhammad Ali. The guy was powerful with a very awkward but effective defence and offence.
In the fight he got on Pinkys chest & did a similar job as he did to Greg Page. The guy was too powerful to hold off, and he landed too many eye catching combinations of left hooks to body & head that had Pinkys head reeling.
Berbick beat up the guy who was top heavy in the world regardless fo whether he underestimated him, so why dont you give him some credit since almost all of you by your own admission never saw the fight or have only watched edited highlights
LOL!
1. Pinklon Thomas was on heroin in his TEENS. once he quit cold turkey he never went back, so dont try blaim his loss to Berbick on cocaine.
2. My man jaclems mind seems to be decaying rapidly because our Oracle here says neither man was highly regarded. Jaclem at the time Pinklon Thomas was the most highly regarded heavy IN THE WORLD!!!
In 85 after he iced Weaver he was held above Larry Holmes by the public and boxing press. The general opinion was that Holmes was sliding & Pinky was numero uno.
3. Berbicks style may not have been pretty but he was a top heavyweight. Sometimes he was hot & cold but when he was hot he had the ability to ice John Tate & David Bey, outhustle Mitch Green & Greg Page, and beat the hell out of Muhammad Ali. The guy was powerful with a very awkward but effective defence and offence.
In the fight he got on Pinkys chest & did a similar job as he did to Greg Page. The guy was too powerful to hold off, and he landed too many eye catching combinations of left hooks to body & head that had Pinkys head reeling.
Berbick beat up the guy who was top heavy in the world regardless fo whether he underestimated him, so why dont you give him some credit since almost all of you by your own admission never saw the fight or have only watched edited highlights
LOL!
Its true that Pinky was regarded as the top heavy in the world by many when he met Berbick as Holmes was fading. Berbick was a very good fighter... I actually rate Tysons ko of Trevor as probably his finest performance... though having said that Berbick fought the entirely wrong fight that night trying to trade with Tyson!.overhand_right wrote:The only person in this thread who seems to have a clue here is Silkov.
1. Pinklon Thomas was on heroin in his TEENS. once he quit cold turkey he never went back, so dont try blaim his loss to Berbick on cocaine.
2. My man jaclems mind seems to be decaying rapidly because our Oracle here says neither man was highly regarded. Jaclem at the time Pinklon Thomas was the most highly regarded heavy IN THE WORLD!!!
In 85 after he iced Weaver he was held above Larry Holmes by the public and boxing press. The general opinion was that Holmes was sliding & Pinky was numero uno.
3. Berbicks style may not have been pretty but he was a top heavyweight. Sometimes he was hot & cold but when he was hot he had the ability to ice John Tate & David Bey, outhustle Mitch Green & Greg Page, and beat the hell out of Muhammad Ali. The guy was powerful with a very awkward but effective defence and offence.
In the fight he got on Pinkys chest & did a similar job as he did to Greg Page. The guy was too powerful to hold off, and he landed too many eye catching combinations of left hooks to body & head that had Pinkys head reeling.
Berbick beat up the guy who was top heavy in the world regardless fo whether he underestimated him, so why dont you give him some credit since almost all of you by your own admission never saw the fight or have only watched edited highlights
LOL!
By the way I do have Berbick vs Thomas and its a very good fight!....
8) 
..overhand...my mind still has occasional lucid moments but thank you for your concern.
at the time of the fight i thought pink was the best heavyweight in the world and thought he'd be around at that level for a long time. i wasn't aware....at the time of the fight in question...of his problems.
when i said he was not that highly regarded i was comparing him to joe louis, baer, tyson at the time of the douglas fight..and others on the list, i meant he was not as famous to the general public....for one thing boxing was not nearly as big a sport as it had been. when louis lost to schmeling it made the front pages of newspapers...and not just sports page coverage.
virtually everyone hd heard of louis, baer etc. but if you had asked the average person after the thomas/berbick fight who those names were you'd have gotten a lot of "who...never heard of them" replies.
tyson..though in an era when boxing was getting less and less coverage was still famous and considered by many to be invincible so the fight with douglas was a huge upset. most people didn't even know who douglas was.
perhaps i should have chosen my words more carefully in my original response, but i am reading proust now in french and don't have as much time to write here as i have had previously.
by the way, overhand, i am (seriously) flattered your reference to me as "my man"
at the time of the fight i thought pink was the best heavyweight in the world and thought he'd be around at that level for a long time. i wasn't aware....at the time of the fight in question...of his problems.
when i said he was not that highly regarded i was comparing him to joe louis, baer, tyson at the time of the douglas fight..and others on the list, i meant he was not as famous to the general public....for one thing boxing was not nearly as big a sport as it had been. when louis lost to schmeling it made the front pages of newspapers...and not just sports page coverage.
virtually everyone hd heard of louis, baer etc. but if you had asked the average person after the thomas/berbick fight who those names were you'd have gotten a lot of "who...never heard of them" replies.
tyson..though in an era when boxing was getting less and less coverage was still famous and considered by many to be invincible so the fight with douglas was a huge upset. most people didn't even know who douglas was.
perhaps i should have chosen my words more carefully in my original response, but i am reading proust now in french and don't have as much time to write here as i have had previously.
by the way, overhand, i am (seriously) flattered your reference to me as "my man"
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dempseyfire
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5534
- Joined: 29 Oct 2003, 22:56
Berbick simply outworked Thomas.
Berbick was not a good boxer but was tough, had great stamina, and was very strong (but not a big puncher)
Thomas had athletic talent and a strong jab but he fought in a straight up, one dimensional style. He brought back his left VERY low after he jabbed and, partially due to his late start in boxing, never had much in the arsenal if one got past or neutralized his left hand.
Both were good but far from great HWs. They are rightfully remembered as B class fighters in a low era for HW boxing in the 80s.
Berbick was not a good boxer but was tough, had great stamina, and was very strong (but not a big puncher)
Thomas had athletic talent and a strong jab but he fought in a straight up, one dimensional style. He brought back his left VERY low after he jabbed and, partially due to his late start in boxing, never had much in the arsenal if one got past or neutralized his left hand.
Both were good but far from great HWs. They are rightfully remembered as B class fighters in a low era for HW boxing in the 80s.
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Sweet Scientist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 13 Oct 2003, 18:19
I always thought Thomas had problems with drugs a long time after he was a teenager...cocaine & heroin are 2 different things...overhand_right wrote:
1. Pinklon Thomas was on heroin in his TEENS. once he quit cold turkey he never went back, so dont try blaim his loss to Berbick on cocaine.
...Thomas never proved that to me...another story of unfulfilled, squandered potential, I always thought...Berbick beat up the guy who was top heavy in the world
You were like what, 4 years old, if that... I'm sure you remember what the general opinion was.overhand_right wrote:2. My man jaclems mind seems to be decaying rapidly because our Oracle here says neither man was highly regarded. Jaclem at the time Pinklon Thomas was the most highly regarded heavy IN THE WORLD!!!
In 85 after he iced Weaver he was held above Larry Holmes by the public and boxing press. The general opinion was that Holmes was sliding & Pinky was numero uno.
What's your source for Pinklon Thomas being #1 by general consensus?
Thomas was a converted leftie (or so I remember) and had a very good jab. Like most converts he was generally able to dictate a fight but didn't have the authority in his right hand to stop opponents who were game enough to walk into the left, or slip it.
I was a big Holmes fan in the 1980s but he was trying to go 50-0 without facing the top people around. He also sponsored the IBF by taking their title so Pinky could win his WBC belt. KO magazine in the 1980s were hailing Thomas as the #1. The Ring, quite rightsully, still held on to the man who beat the man concept and had Larry as number 1.
At the time I thought Thomas and Witherspoon (although he seemed to suffer from a lack of motivation and lost to people he really should have beaten) looked the best challengers.
It was a shock when he lost to Berbick.
Tyson beat him in one of his best ever displays. That night Tyson established his jab, took his time and then blew him out once the opportunity arose. I think that was peak Tyson.
Thomas was a good fighter. Wasn't he ahead on the scorecards when he lost to Holyfield?
I was a big Holmes fan in the 1980s but he was trying to go 50-0 without facing the top people around. He also sponsored the IBF by taking their title so Pinky could win his WBC belt. KO magazine in the 1980s were hailing Thomas as the #1. The Ring, quite rightsully, still held on to the man who beat the man concept and had Larry as number 1.
At the time I thought Thomas and Witherspoon (although he seemed to suffer from a lack of motivation and lost to people he really should have beaten) looked the best challengers.
It was a shock when he lost to Berbick.
Tyson beat him in one of his best ever displays. That night Tyson established his jab, took his time and then blew him out once the opportunity arose. I think that was peak Tyson.
Thomas was a good fighter. Wasn't he ahead on the scorecards when he lost to Holyfield?
Pinklon was a very good heavy, but like Dokes, didn't fight enough top notched competition.For someone of his talent, his spotlight was very brief.wouter wrote:Yes he was a good fighter, but he failed to win a round against HolyfieldEzzard wrote:Thomas was a good fighter. Wasn't he ahead on the scorecards when he lost to Holyfield?
Re: Trevor Berbick vs Pinklon Thomas
I just watched this fight over the weekend. What a good
and under rated fight @!
Thomas started strong and built up a good lead, but obviosly
his distratctions in his personal life-professional life took
something away from his stamina and pop.
Singing, acting, managing others all spreads one thin at
an elite level.
Thomas' jab looked good early and landed hard.
Berbick is a strong and awkward fighter who like many of
the other 80s HW elite is bagged and only remembered for
losses (ie Tyson fight).
I recall reading how 'boring' this fight was according to some
boxing expert. They can kiss my ass, as I really enjoyed this
fight. Maybe as they sniffed some brill cream and fantasised
over Sullivan's under wear it appeared boring...but for me
it was a good fast paced H W bout.
and under rated fight @!
Thomas started strong and built up a good lead, but obviosly
his distratctions in his personal life-professional life took
something away from his stamina and pop.
Singing, acting, managing others all spreads one thin at
an elite level.
Thomas' jab looked good early and landed hard.
Berbick is a strong and awkward fighter who like many of
the other 80s HW elite is bagged and only remembered for
losses (ie Tyson fight).
I recall reading how 'boring' this fight was according to some
boxing expert. They can kiss my ass, as I really enjoyed this
fight. Maybe as they sniffed some brill cream and fantasised
over Sullivan's under wear it appeared boring...but for me
it was a good fast paced H W bout.
Re: Trevor Berbick vs Pinklon Thomas
Agreed, I remember watching this at the time and thought it was a very good battle, if that fight happened in say 2005-8 given the current state of the heavyweights it would probably be looked at as the heavyweight fight of the latter part of the decade.Robinson wrote:I just watched this fight over the weekend. What a good
and under rated fight @!
Thomas started strong and built up a good lead, but obviosly
his distratctions in his personal life-professional life took
something away from his stamina and pop.
Singing, acting, managing others all spreads one thin at
an elite level.
Thomas' jab looked good early and landed hard.
Berbick is a strong and awkward fighter who like many of
the other 80s HW elite is bagged and only remembered for
losses (ie Tyson fight).
I recall reading how 'boring' this fight was according to some
boxing expert. They can kiss my ass, as I really enjoyed this
fight. Maybe as they sniffed some brill cream and fantasised
over Sullivan's under wear it appeared boring...but for me
it was a good fast paced H W bout.
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Goodnight, Irene
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9463
- Joined: 24 Sep 2007, 04:43
Re: Trevor Berbick vs Pinklon Thomas
^^^That gives me a thread idea 
Re:
Im sorry your very wrong on point 1. Pinkon did an extensive interview with one of the east coast rags in the late 90's when he was 39. He said that the period of prior to the berbick fight and up to the tyson one he went totally crazy on blowing all his money on doin drugs. Thats why he seemed to age so prematurely in the ring and outside the ring in that period 86-88. He seemed to be a crack addict walking fighting on memory.overhand_right wrote:The only person in this thread who seems to have a clue here is Silkov.
1. Pinklon Thomas was on heroin in his TEENS. once he quit cold turkey he never went back, so dont try blaim his loss to Berbick on cocaine.
2. My man jaclems mind seems to be decaying rapidly because our Oracle here says neither man was highly regarded. Jaclem at the time Pinklon Thomas was the most highly regarded heavy IN THE WORLD!!!
In 85 after he iced Weaver he was held above Larry Holmes by the public and boxing press. The general opinion was that Holmes was sliding & Pinky was numero uno.
3. Berbicks style may not have been pretty but he was a top heavyweight. Sometimes he was hot & cold but when he was hot he had the ability to ice John Tate & David Bey, outhustle Mitch Green & Greg Page, and beat the hell out of Muhammad Ali. The guy was powerful with a very awkward but effective defence and offence.
In the fight he got on Pinkys chest & did a similar job as he did to Greg Page. The guy was too powerful to hold off, and he landed too many eye catching combinations of left hooks to body & head that had Pinkys head reeling.
Berbick beat up the guy who was top heavy in the world regardless fo whether he underestimated him, so why dont you give him some credit since almost all of you by your own admission never saw the fight or have only watched edited highlights
LOL!
Re: Trevor Berbick vs Pinklon Thomas
This is also why Dundee and he had the falling out > because he was
using again.
Once he kicked it (again) didnt Dundee and him get back together
thereafter only to lose to Tyson and Holy.
I personally think that besides his drug problems thomas should have
waited until after his boxing career to pursue managing fighters,
singing and acting. At his level he really needed to focus and spend
time on his own boxing, the Berbick fight which he was winning well with
that nice jab, decent in fighting and right hand passed him by when his
stamina ran out and the ever tenacious and awkward Berbick kept on
storming on.
using again.
Once he kicked it (again) didnt Dundee and him get back together
thereafter only to lose to Tyson and Holy.
I personally think that besides his drug problems thomas should have
waited until after his boxing career to pursue managing fighters,
singing and acting. At his level he really needed to focus and spend
time on his own boxing, the Berbick fight which he was winning well with
that nice jab, decent in fighting and right hand passed him by when his
stamina ran out and the ever tenacious and awkward Berbick kept on
storming on.
Re: Trevor Berbick vs Pinklon Thomas
Thomas just had exceptional style. His physique was superior to even Ken Norton, his jab was imperious and he could really move and jab for a big guy. Of all the talented 80's HW's Thomas is the one who disapointed and underachieved the most. Its always a oxymoron talking about a guy who became Heavyweight champion of the world as an underachiever but thats what he was.
Of the 1990's crop Bruce Seldon was the one who disapointed me the most. He had such exception athletisicm but seemingly on the surface of it had a glass jaw and poor determination in the big ones.
Of the 1990's crop Bruce Seldon was the one who disapointed me the most. He had such exception athletisicm but seemingly on the surface of it had a glass jaw and poor determination in the big ones.
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Goodnight, Irene
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9463
- Joined: 24 Sep 2007, 04:43
Re: Trevor Berbick vs Pinklon Thomas
Thomas' physique never superceded Norton's. In which fights? He was a titleist, too --- never champion, in the true sense of the word. I feel compelled to point that out.mugabi wrote:Thomas just had exceptional style. His physique was superior to even Ken Norton, his jab was imperious and he could really move and jab for a big guy. Of all the talented 80's HW's Thomas is the one who disapointed and underachieved the most. Its always a oxymoron talking about a guy who became Heavyweight champion of the world as an underachiever but thats what he was.
Of the 1990's crop Bruce Seldon was the one who disapointed me the most. He had such exception athletisicm but seemingly on the surface of it had a glass jaw and poor determination in the big ones.
Re: Trevor Berbick vs Pinklon Thomas
I think you can make a case for most of the 80's titleists as being the most talented, others will tell you it was Dokes, Witherspoon, Page or Tubbs, all down to opinion I guess. If Dokes put his shoulder through his punches more then I'd go with him, he really did have talent.mugabi wrote:Thomas just had exceptional style. His physique was superior to even Ken Norton, his jab was imperious and he could really move and jab for a big guy. Of all the talented 80's HW's Thomas is the one who disapointed and underachieved the most. Its always a oxymoron talking about a guy who became Heavyweight champion of the world as an underachiever but thats what he was.
Of the 1990's crop Bruce Seldon was the one who disapointed me the most. He had such exception athletisicm but seemingly on the surface of it had a glass jaw and poor determination in the big ones.
As for Bruce Seldon, well he had all the moves, until someone hit him back.
Re: Trevor Berbick vs Pinklon Thomas
Your absoultely spot on.
When choosing Thomas, I did think of Dokes as well as being in my opinion just behind pinklon. Dokes in his fights with weaver had some of the fastest hands Ive ever seen for a HW. Absolutely blistering on a par with Ali in the 60's. he could punch and take a punch too.Had a great record in the 80's despite substance abuse etc
Again I state the obvious,the 80's was full of talented HW's, even supposedly c and d list guys like james quick Tillis and mitch Green were super talented.
Razor Ruddock was incredible, Tony Tucker as well as the more obvious guys like greg page, witherspoon, williams, tubbs, marvis frazier,tyrell biggs and larry holmes, spinks etc.
The russians these days dont have the same talent,skill, or power ratio to body weight but they are specimins in their own right, its just i dont think any of them could have handled a razor ruddock or a frank bruno in his peak.
When choosing Thomas, I did think of Dokes as well as being in my opinion just behind pinklon. Dokes in his fights with weaver had some of the fastest hands Ive ever seen for a HW. Absolutely blistering on a par with Ali in the 60's. he could punch and take a punch too.Had a great record in the 80's despite substance abuse etc
Again I state the obvious,the 80's was full of talented HW's, even supposedly c and d list guys like james quick Tillis and mitch Green were super talented.
Razor Ruddock was incredible, Tony Tucker as well as the more obvious guys like greg page, witherspoon, williams, tubbs, marvis frazier,tyrell biggs and larry holmes, spinks etc.
The russians these days dont have the same talent,skill, or power ratio to body weight but they are specimins in their own right, its just i dont think any of them could have handled a razor ruddock or a frank bruno in his peak.
Re: Trevor Berbick vs Pinklon Thomas
In essence Norton, Holmes, even Ali when he regained the title
from Spinks were just titlists...
How do we pick and chose which is the legitimate title and which
is not.
'lineage'...?
from Spinks were just titlists...
How do we pick and chose which is the legitimate title and which
is not.
'lineage'...?