If Ali of Manila met Frazier of FOTC, what happens?

[ThatOne]

He should have had points taken away for that, but the fight was still quite close.

Frazier/Ali 1 was like Duran/Leonard 1. There was no possible alternative fight plan. Nothing was going to keep Duran or Frazier from getting in tight, nothing on earth. That kind of aggression isn't something you can bring day after day, they were both absolute peak athletes on those nights and there isn't a damn thing Ali or Leonard could do but take their ass whippings like men and come back for revenge later. They both did just that and neither had a thing to be ashamed in the fights when they got the shit beat out of them. But that's exactly what happened to both of them.

I couldn't disagree with your assessment more but I will let you have the last word as this conversation will quickly descend into name calling.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He should have had points taken away for that, but the fight was still quite close.

Frazier/Ali 1 was like Duran/Leonard 1. There was no possible alternative fight plan. Nothing was going to keep Duran or Frazier from getting in tight, nothing on earth. That kind of aggression isn't something you can bring day after day, they were both absolute peak athletes on those nights and there isn't a damn thing Ali or Leonard could do but take their ass whippings like men and come back for revenge later. They both did just that and neither had a thing to be ashamed in the fights when they got the shit beat out of them. But that's exactly what happened to both of them.

I couldn't disagree with your assessment more but I will let you have the last word as this conversation will quickly descend into name calling.

Those assessments are as close to fact as an opinion can get. But that is a fine place to move on. Good for you.

[ThatOne]

Life is too short. I could literally bump a thread for a year but sometimes discipline and persistence must succumb to reasoned judgement.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Life is too short. I could literally bump a thread for a year but sometimes discipline and persistence must succumb to reasoned judgement.

Agreed, I wish you better luck on your second attempt at letting me have the last word.

[ThatOne]

:idea:

I let you have the last word on your analysis and conclusions.

I was just making a global point about what is important and what isn't.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

:idea:

I let you have the last word on your analysis and conclusions.

I was just making a global point about what is important and what isn't.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

nah ThatOne you're wrong on this one. Saad has it perfect.

Hearns/Hagler is another one and he is my favorite fighter. There was no way Hearns could have played the Motor City Cobra that night. Not like he wanted to, but there are times when even the most brilliant of boxers are forced into a war or they will get run out of the ring.

[Ambling Alp]

Really? Coming from the guy who thinks Pernell Whitaker regularly threw 1000 punches a fight.
Did it ever occur to you that you are biased against Ali?
I atleast back up with what I say. I don't have to resort to as a rebuttal.

Not at all, Ali was my favorite fighter growing up. I like him. As for backing up what you say, that's silly. You just regurgitate the same rubbish anytime Ali comes up. You think he was diminished in 71, I don't. Neither of us will ever change our minds.

Whitaker threw a ton of punches, that is factual.

Oh now you like Ali. Yeah right. You rip him in post after post. At least be honest. How fake can you get?

I actaully say why I have an opinion about something. The best you can do is come up with some crap how he wasn't as durable before the layoff. And nothing else. I don't really care if I change your mind. I am just stating my opinion like other people do. I judge Ali like I do any other fighter. If I say something about him that is inconsistent with what I have said about someone else in a similar situation, let me know.

Just because someone has a different opinion about someone than you do does not make them biased. You hate Ali and Leonard. Just because someone says something good about them doesn't make them biased. I like A liand Leonard. I don't crtiticize them much becasue there isn't much to criticize. They were 2 of the best of all time. Other fighters I like I do criticize on occasion. I also like Danny Lopez. I don't think he should be in the Hall of Fame and have said so. I like Tim Tomasek and think he was a tomato can. I like Mathew Saad Muhammad but don't think he was as good as Dwight Qawi who I don't care either way about.

Name a fighter and I will tell you if I like him or not and good I think he was. I use the same criteria to rate a fighter for everyone whether I like them or not.

It's factual that Whitaker threw a lot of punches? Wow.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I've never said I hated Ali, you just turn into such a sobby pussy during any discussion about him that you make your own assumptions to suit your moronic claims. I haven't ripped him apart at all in this thread.

He was my absolute favorite fighter as a child. As the years have passed his actions outside of the ring have sullied my feelings about him as a man. But I will always like and respect him as a fighter. He just wasn't beating Joe Frazier on that particular night. No matter how much you want to distort the truth or point fingers while you howl at the moon.

I hate Leonard's guts but that doesn't keep me from judging his talents objectively. Once again, your insane nuthugging just can't handle any criticism of those two fighters. It's quite sad and pathetic.

Why would I name any fighter? I'm saying you can't say or even read a critical word about either of them without turning into an irrational woman in need of a maxi-pad. You're quite knowledgeable and even reasonable about other fighters. Everybody that disagrees with me isn't biased, you are biased. As biased as any human who has ever lived. I've had endless arguments with you when we start out agreeing like one of the Leonard/Hagler threads. Eventually something will hurt your feelings because it isn't complimentary enough and there isn't anything left but Irrational Alp huffing and puffing in the honor of his man.

And as far as Whitaker, what a fantastic example of your ability to offer a counter-point as opposed to the weak one worded responses you detest so much from me. And yes, in his prime he threw shot after shot. Perhaps if you watched some other fights instead of festering over any word about your beloved Ali you would know it for yourself.

Here are the compubox records for punches landed. I wish there was no compubox as people use it as a tool to score fights when the element of human error is high. But it can serve a purpose like shutting you up on one point and offering the proof you so desperately seek from all posts that don't come from you. Nothing involving opinions here. I'm RIGHT and You Are WRONG. Lets see you admit that.

http://compuboxonline.com/recordbook.php

[Ambling Alp]

You are the one with the smart aleck remarks every time someone disagrees with one of your pearls of wisdom.

Really 3 fights? How about the rest of his career? You said he thew 1000 punches a fight. Even if those 3 fights he didn't throw 1000 fight he wouldn't have thrown 1000 punhes if he had a good %.

It's fine for you like Duran, Whitaker, Saad Muhammad or Hearns who recently said that you love. But when I like someone that you don't it's nuthugging. (for the record, I like Hearns and saad Muhammad, neutral with Whitaker, despise Duran.)

Why would I ask you name names? I will give you an honest answer if I like them or not and how good I think they are. Many of the fighters that I like are not as good as those I don't like. Some are, some aren't. . And I won't be fake like you are with Ali.

As for Ali and Leonard, please find all of the pro Ali or Leonard threads that I have started. There was one in 6 years. I just sometimes respond to something that I strongly disagree with. I do it in a nice way and have something to back it up. I don't just respond with a and think I gave a great rebutttal.

You have ripped Ali on many threads. Are you really going to deny that? Stop being fake. Even on this thread you said he was not as durable in his prime as he was in 1971 after a 3 and a half year layoff. That is total BS. I called you on it and you didn't even try to counter that.

As for for your other comments, grow up. It's time.

[hhaehre]

You are the one with the smart aleck remarks every time someone disagrees with one of your pearls of wisdom.

Really 3 fights? How about the rest of his career? You said he thew 1000 punches a fight. Even if those 3 fights he didn't throw 1000 fight he wouldn't have thrown 1000 punhes if he had a good %.

Are you saying Whitaker didn't throw a lot of punches?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You are the one with the smart aleck remarks every time someone disagrees with one of your pearls of wisdom.

Really 3 fights? How about the rest of his career? You said he thew 1000 punches a fight. Even if those 3 fights he didn't throw 1000 fight he wouldn't have thrown 1000 punhes if he had a good %.

It's fine for you like Duran, Whitaker, Saad Muhammad or Hearns who recently said that you love. But when I like someone that you don't it's nuthugging. (for the record, I like Hearns and saad Muhammad, neutral with Whitaker, despise Duran.)

Why would I ask you name names? I will give you an honest answer if I like them or not and how good I think they are. Many of the fighters that I like are not as good as those I don't like. Some are, some aren't. . And I won't be fake like you are with Ali.

As for Ali and Leonard, please find all of the pro Ali or Leonard threads that I have started. There was one in 6 years. I just sometimes respond to something that I strongly disagree with. I do it in a nice way and have something to back it up. I don't just respond with a and think I gave a great rebutttal.

You have ripped Ali on many threads. Are you really going to deny that? Stop being fake. Even on this thread you said he was not as durable in his prime as he was in 1971 after a 3 and a half year layoff. That is total BS. I called you on it and you didn't even try to counter that.

As for for your other comments, grow up. It's time.

Lets see if you can admit that Whitaker threw a lot of punches. Then we can move on to the rest of this retarded post.

Since you live on your high horse and are always begging for me to delve into your glorious post history. Why don't you show me where I am always ripping on Ali? Since I do it all the time. Saying I think he was more durable in 71 than he was in his youth is ripping on him? So anything that doesn't agree with you is a vicious insult towards Ali? You called me on it? All you did was disagree, there was nothing of substance from you."Boo-hoo-hooo Ali lost in 71 so something was obviously wrong, boo-hoo-hoo my pussy aches."

That's why you're such a pathetic little man. All you do is try and twist words while you cry like a bitch. Try and work on that before giving any advice on growing up. But I'm sure you will just come back with another post from your soap box filled with lies and delusional claims of objectivity.

It's actually hilarious to anyone that you truly think you're not an overzealous fan to the 1,000th power. You should see some of the pm's I've gotten laughing at your posts in this thread. So yes Alp, we are amused.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You are the one with the smart aleck remarks every time someone disagrees with one of your pearls of wisdom.

Really 3 fights? How about the rest of his career? You said he thew 1000 punches a fight. Even if those 3 fights he didn't throw 1000 fight he wouldn't have thrown 1000 punhes if he had a good %.

Are you saying Whitaker didn't throw a lot of punches?

In typical Alp fashion I guess he is going to say that he didn't average 1,000 punches a fight instead of laughing at the notion that he threw a lot of punches. No surprise there, he couldn't admit he was wrong if it won him the lottery. I wont begrudge him much there, that isn't my strong suit either. But it will be interesting to see if he can manage to do it with evidence right in his face. I'd like to think I'm above being that petty. At the very least he should drop it.

[ThatOne]

He was my absolute favorite fighter as a child. As the years have passed his actions outside of the ring have sullied my feelings about him as a man."

-Saad Off The Deck

Yeah, the young Ali had a dark side but I don't think anybody should be judged by their worst moment.

When the hikers were released from Iran the other day they specifically named the "great" (their words) Muhammad Ali as being one of the people specifically instrumental for their release.

Back in 87 Muhammad Ali was at the federal court house in Orlando testifying as a character witness for one of his friends. During one of the breaks he sat at the cafeteria and signed autographs for everbody that wants one. My mom who passed away in 2008 worked there.
My mom got on line and when it was turn to get an autograph she said "my son loves you". He asked her my name and autographed an envelope my mom gave him to sign. That's all she had. My mom said he couldn't be more gracious. This wasn't a "card show". He essentially gave a free "card show". It's the little things that define all of us; the famous and the obscure.

There's lots of instances like the above.

Saad, I respect your opinion but I ask you to reconsider it.

And I am very biased when it comes to Ali .

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You ask me to reconsider my feelings? Sorry, that will never happen. Great fighter, but he was more of an asshole than people like to admit. Not that I have any ill will towards him. But the reverence from my youth faded as I aged. He would still be in my top 50 favorite fighters.

Floyd Mayweather signs autographs for hours too.

[ThatOne]

I won't belabor the point but there are instances of him doing really great things like paying $100,000.00 in 1970 dollars to keep a Jewish nursing home open, being one of the first visitors to visit Ken Norton in the hospital after his near fatal car accident, and offering himself in 1979 as a hostage in exchange for our American hostages in Teheran, and doing the same thing recently in the case of the three American hikers who were taken hostage in Iran.

As for his treatment of some of his opponents, specifically Joe Frazier, his actions were deplorable. He also was disrespectful of Floyd Patterson but not to the same degree...

[yancey]

"And I am very biased when it comes to Ali". ThatOne


Well, take the ribbon from my hair.

[yancey]

But good on you for admitting it.

[ThatOne]

"And I am very biased when it comes to Ali". ThatOne


Well, take the ribbon from my hair.

Candor is such a valuable commodity it should be universal.