Boxing in 2011 is rubbish.

[ALI]

I don't agree that the year has been rubbish, I agree the top promoters should be more open to matching their fighters together and there may not have been many wow factor super fights for Joe Public to embrace but an overall look at the sport from my view seems pretty healthy, here are some of the fights I've enjoyed this year I've probably missed loads but off the top of my head;

Ortiz vs Berto, Sturm vs Macklin, Murray v Mitchell, Wolak vs Rodriguez, Arce vs Vazquez Jr , Mares vs Agbeko, Rios v Acosta, Lopez vSalido, Marquez vs Concepcion, Gamboa v Solis, Buckland vs Sykes 2, Barret v Tua 2, Hall v McDonnell, Miranda v Viloria, Alexander vs Matthysse, Maidana v Morales ,Groves v Degale, Aaron v Webb, Darchinyan v Perez, Cotto v Mayorga, Haye v Wlad, Katsidis v Guerrero

The trouble with boxing is that it could always be better, in other sports its all mapped out and guaranteed, year in year out. In football its the league + cups, europe, world cup. In tennis the slams come around 4 times a year. In athletics you have all sorts of championships lined up. Cricket, rugby, motor racing, its all lined up and gauranteed, the best taking on the best, exactly what sport is all about. In boxing nothing is gauranteed and we are usually always left wanting.

Multiple champions of equal measure in the same division is not working, just imagine the world cup ending after the quarter finals with the 4 winning teams being declared 'a world champion'...... What next, maybe one or two of the world champions will play each other at some point to see who is the 'real' champion, then again, maybe they'll never play each other, we'll just have to wait and see. Fcuk me that would really draw in the punters!

Three major sanctioning bodies, all corrupt as hell, are governing our sport. Its absolute nonsense, but it suits the greedy promoters who's priority and motivation will always be money driven. I cannot see it changing until we get one united, non corrupt, governing body to govern our sport. It will never happen though, not in my lifetime.

[Final round]

I don't agree that the year has been rubbish, I agree the top promoters should be more open to matching their fighters together and there may not have been many wow factor super fights for Joe Public to embrace but an overall look at the sport from my view seems pretty healthy, here are some of the fights I've enjoyed this year I've probably missed loads but off the top of my head;

Ortiz vs Berto, Sturm vs Macklin, Murray v Mitchell, Wolak vs Rodriguez, Arce vs Vazquez Jr , Mares vs Agbeko, Rios v Acosta, Lopez vSalido, Marquez vs Concepcion, Gamboa v Solis, Buckland vs Sykes 2, Barret v Tua 2, Hall v McDonnell, Miranda v Viloria, Alexander vs Matthysse, Maidana v Morales ,Groves v Degale, Aaron v Webb, Darchinyan v Perez, Cotto v Mayorga, Haye v Wlad, Katsidis v Guerrero

The trouble with boxing is that it could always be better, in other sports its all mapped out and guaranteed, year in year out. In football its the league + cups, europe, world cup. In tennis the slams come around 4 times a year. In athletics you have all sorts of championships lined up. Cricket, rugby, motor racing, its all lined up and gauranteed, the best taking on the best, exactly what sport is all about. In boxing nothing is gauranteed and we are usually always left wanting.

Multiple champions of equal measure in the same division is not working, just imagine the world cup ending after the quarter finals with the 4 winning teams being declared 'a world champion'...... What next, maybe one or two of the world champions will play each other at some point to see who is the 'real' champion, then again, maybe they'll never play each other, we'll just have to wait and see. Fcuk me that would really draw in the punters!

Three major sanctioning bodies, all corrupt as hell, are governing our sport. Its absolute nonsense, but it suits the greedy promoters who's priority and motivation will always be money driven. I cannot see it changing until we get one united, non corrupt, governing body to govern our sport. It will never happen though, not in my lifetime.

Completely agree with the multiple belt schtick bollocks it devalues the meaning of champion and makes a mockery of reaching the pinnacle of the sport.

That's it but you're right it will NEVER happen funnily enough I asked allegedly what was the one thing he would change in the sport and this is what he said surprisingly

[ALI]

I don't agree that the year has been rubbish, I agree the top promoters should be more open to matching their fighters together and there may not have been many wow factor super fights for Joe Public to embrace but an overall look at the sport from my view seems pretty healthy, here are some of the fights I've enjoyed this year I've probably missed loads but off the top of my head;

Ortiz vs Berto, Sturm vs Macklin, Murray v Mitchell, Wolak vs Rodriguez, Arce vs Vazquez Jr , Mares vs Agbeko, Rios v Acosta, Lopez vSalido, Marquez vs Concepcion, Gamboa v Solis, Buckland vs Sykes 2, Barret v Tua 2, Hall v McDonnell, Miranda v Viloria, Alexander vs Matthysse, Maidana v Morales ,Groves v Degale, Aaron v Webb, Darchinyan v Perez, Cotto v Mayorga, Haye v Wlad, Katsidis v Guerrero

The trouble with boxing is that it could always be better, in other sports its all mapped out and guaranteed, year in year out. In football its the league + cups, europe, world cup. In tennis the slams come around 4 times a year. In athletics you have all sorts of championships lined up. Cricket, rugby, motor racing, its all lined up and gauranteed, the best taking on the best, exactly what sport is all about. In boxing nothing is gauranteed and we are usually always left wanting.

Multiple champions of equal measure in the same division is not working, just imagine the world cup ending after the quarter finals with the 4 winning teams being declared 'a world champion'...... What next, maybe one or two of the world champions will play each other at some point to see who is the 'real' champion, then again, maybe they'll never play each other, we'll just have to wait and see. Fcuk me that would really draw in the punters!

Three major sanctioning bodies, all corrupt as hell, are governing our sport. Its absolute nonsense, but it suits the greedy promoters who's priority and motivation will always be money driven. I cannot see it changing until we get one united, non corrupt, governing body to govern our sport. It will never happen though, not in my lifetime.

Completely agree with the multiple belt schtick bollocks it devalues the meaning of champion and makes a mockery of reaching the pinnacle of the sport.

That's it but you're right it will NEVER happen funnily enough I asked allegedly what was the one thing he would change in the sport and this is what he said surprisingly

Really, i'm also surprised he said that. Titles help gernerate money and create more opportunutiy for fighters (thats obviously the main arguement against eliminating them). Warren and Hatton milked that WBU trinket like nothing i'd ever seen before. The WBO has been Warren's biggest ally over the years. Strange that he'd vote to get rid of them given how they have benifited him over the years.

[Final round]

The trouble with boxing is that it could always be better, in other sports its all mapped out and guaranteed, year in year out. In football its the league + cups, europe, world cup. In tennis the slams come around 4 times a year. In athletics you have all sorts of championships lined up. Cricket, rugby, motor racing, its all lined up and gauranteed, the best taking on the best, exactly what sport is all about. In boxing nothing is gauranteed and we are usually always left wanting.

Multiple champions of equal measure in the same division is not working, just imagine the world cup ending after the quarter finals with the 4 winning teams being declared 'a world champion'...... What next, maybe one or two of the world champions will play each other at some point to see who is the 'real' champion, then again, maybe they'll never play each other, we'll just have to wait and see. Fcuk me that would really draw in the punters!

Three major sanctioning bodies, all corrupt as hell, are governing our sport. Its absolute nonsense, but it suits the greedy promoters who's priority and motivation will always be money driven. I cannot see it changing until we get one united, non corrupt, governing body to govern our sport. It will never happen though, not in my lifetime.

Completely agree with the multiple belt schtick bollocks it devalues the meaning of champion and makes a mockery of reaching the pinnacle of the sport.

That's it but you're right it will NEVER happen funnily enough I asked allegedly what was the one thing he would change in the sport and this is what he said surprisingly

Really, i'm also surprised he said that. Titles help gernerate money and create more opportunutiy for fighters (thats obviously the main arguement against eliminating them). Warren and Hatton milked that WBU trinket like nothing i'd ever seen before. The WBO has been Warren's biggest ally over the years. Strange that he'd vote to get rid of them given how they have benifited him over the years.

Yeah I suppose like anyone in business he works within the current system in a way whats best for him and his fighters in terms of £££ but in an ideal world he can see what would be best for the sport.

[J]

on a side note anyone know how (Khaosai Galaxy 9th boxer) actually was named after?

theres an internet biscuit in it for first right answer.

[Final round]

on a side note anyone know how (Khaosai Galaxy 9th boxer) actually was named after?

theres an internet biscuit in it for first right answer.

A nightclub?

[Deno1986]

Another ufc thread ZZZZzzzzzz, bore off guys. Go troll a UFC / MMA forum because these attempts to "sell " ufc to boxing fans are just becoming embarrassing....

If you read the opening post properly you would see it is a thread regarding current day promoting in boxing with a slight reference to UFC. A lot of posters skimmed over the post, seen "UFC" being mentioned and their boxing defense mechanism kicked into action without taking into account what the opening poster is trying to state.

The Carl Froch reference is spot on in my opinion. Froch would have been a household name across the British Isles 15-20 years ago but it's only the hardcore and over interested casual fan that know about him. It's a bad state of affairs when his missus draws him more attention than his promoter does.

I don't watch UFC and I don't intend to but they have tapped into a market that boxing authorities and promotors took for granted over the years. In terms of a marketing strategy, they have bloody geniuses working for them to be able to get a viewing public like they have, and all in a relatively short period of time.

I did read the post and also the thread of the post "Boxing in 2011 is rubbish" think thats a discredit to the sport itself. I have not the faintist clue who is fighting in the mma / ufc world and to be honest i will not be losing sleep over that fact.

Galaxy stated in his opening post:

“Its because the promoters are all crap.

Watching UFC a bit recently I was struck at the "clarity" of the whole product, stories and characters are established quickly and clearly. X is a bad guy so we see him generally acting like a pudendum, Y is a good guy, so we see him making with the nice nice. They then make sure the audience knows both guys history, giving a story as to how we got to this point where these 2 guys are fighting (Boxing promoters are horrible at doing this, its like they have to keep it a secret) show them knocking some people out and its done.”

Well I think there are a lot of hardworking boxing promoters out there that do their best to ensure their fighter gets the publicity they deserve, so to make a sweeping statement and state they are all shit is very inflammatory!! Secondly in my local there has been loads of talk about bellew and Clev, and these aren’t even avid boxing fans just casual sport watchers. Nothing was said about UFC though….

Boxing doesn’t need to resort to painting X as a bady and Y as goody, generally because boxing fans understand that the sport is not that simplistic or child like. Boxing is about who has the better skills to compete and ultimately win on their ability…Thank you and goodnight

Now that's a better post than your original one and I agree with you in parts.

Boxing is different to the likes of UFC and WWF (or whatever they call it) but it still needs to be promoted and sold to the mainstream properly and effectively. I guarantee amongst the majority of kids/teenagers these days, boxing is a distant second to UFC. I see evidence of that in my hometown where there are now only 2 boxing gyms as opposed to 4 that were there 10 years ago and there are 4 MMA gyms full of young lads and lasses.

The small hall promoters do a fantastic job but it's the bigger promoters that are shooting the sport in the foot with their greed. Practically every boxing card in America is PPV and I guarantee that will creep into Britain over the next few years. In fact it has started already with the likes of allegedly coming onto the scene.

Boxing is like a cheating girlfriend that you keep forgiving. Despise and love it at the same time.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

. Nothing was said about UFC though….

Besides saying "I don't particularly like MMA" ?

Well I think there are a lot of hardworking boxing promoters out there that do their best to ensure their fighter gets the publicity they deserve

yes, but they are failing to get said publicity, working hard doesn't mean you are any good.

I have been working hard trying to become the President of France for the last 15 years, but i have had not managed to achieve it.

Boxing doesn’t need to resort to painting X as a bady and Y as goody, generally because boxing fans understand that the sport is not that simplistic or child like. Boxing is about who has the better skills to compete and ultimately win on their ability…Thank you and goodnight

Laughable, utterly laughable. "Boxing doesn’t need to resort to painting X as a bady and Y as goody" has to be the single most misguided comment i've ever read on here.

"Boxing is about who has the better skills to compete and ultimately win on their ability…Thank you and goodnight"

oh yes, what a clincher! that showed me, and others!!

FFS


Benn - Eubank


Benn - Eubank

Ill keep pasting that until one of "you people" figures it out why exactly folks still talk about it today.

That "great" 2nd fight at Old Trafford?...

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

in fairness to KG living overseas we dont get to see the british title fights or rarely....

You make it sound like are living together.

Which I must say is a lovely image.

[J]

on a side note anyone know how (Khaosai Galaxy 9th boxer) actually was named after?

theres an internet biscuit in it for first right answer.

A nightclub?

correct.


have a biscuit.

[J]

in fairness to KG living overseas we dont get to see the british title fights or rarely....

You make it sound like are living together.

Which I must say is a lovely image.

perhaps we are, ive never noticed the wife having a dick until now though.

what a shock that was. tape broke.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

in fairness to KG living overseas we dont get to see the british title fights or rarely....

o


You make it sound like are living together.

Which I must say is a lovely image.

perhaps we are, ive never noticed the wife having a dick until now though.

what a shock that was. tape broke.

I can't think of which ladyboy story i was going to post here, there are far too many.

I once wrote an text for a ladyboy that was being sent to her client as she didnt speak great english.

I found out that client in question just happened to be former Holywood star David Carradine.

3 days later he was found dead in his hotel room in Bangkok.

True story.

[Counter-puncher]

aaah, ladyboys.

[Hook1]

. Nothing was said about UFC though….

Besides saying "I don't particularly like MMA" ?

Well I think there are a lot of hardworking boxing promoters out there that do their best to ensure their fighter gets the publicity they deserve

yes, but they are failing to get said publicity, working hard doesn't mean you are any good.

I have been working hard trying to become the President of France for the last 15 years, but i have had not managed to achieve it.

Various promoters put on decent cards, granted a few don't, but that doesn't justify your earlier statement saying they are all crap..

Boxing doesn’t need to resort to painting X as a bady and Y as goody, generally because boxing fans understand that the sport is not that simplistic or child like. Boxing is about who has the better skills to compete and ultimately win on their ability…Thank you and goodnight

Laughable, utterly laughable. "Boxing doesn’t need to resort to painting X as a bady and Y as goody" has to be the single most misguided comment i've ever read on here.

what is laughable? Get on topic and state your point...

"Boxing is about who has the better skills to compete and ultimately win on their ability…Thank you and goodnight"

oh yes, what a clincher! that showed me, and others!!

FFS


Benn - Eubank


Benn - Eubank

Ill keep pasting that until one of "you people" figures it out why exactly folks still talk about it today.

That "great" 2nd fight at Old Trafford?...

You keep on saying about this fight, to be honest some boxers are liked more than others and result in good v bad by default. Not every single fight is that way aand they still get talked about regardless.

[Final round]

on a side note anyone know how (Khaosai Galaxy 9th boxer) actually was named after?

theres an internet biscuit in it for first right answer.

A nightclub?

correct.


have a biscuit.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

. Nothing was said about UFC though….

Besides saying "I don't particularly like MMA" ?

Well I think there are a lot of hardworking boxing promoters out there that do their best to ensure their fighter gets the publicity they deserve

yes, but they are failing to get said publicity, working hard doesn't mean you are any good.

I have been working hard trying to become the President of France for the last 15 years, but i have had not managed to achieve it.

Various promoters put on decent cards, granted a few don't, but that doesn't justify your earlier statement saying they are all crap..

Boxing doesn’t need to resort to painting X as a bady and Y as goody, generally because boxing fans understand that the sport is not that simplistic or child like. Boxing is about who has the better skills to compete and ultimately win on their ability…Thank you and goodnight

Laughable, utterly laughable. "Boxing doesn’t need to resort to painting X as a bady and Y as goody" has to be the single most misguided comment i've ever read on here.

what is laughable? Get on topic and state your point...

"Boxing is about who has the better skills to compete and ultimately win on their ability…Thank you and goodnight"

oh yes, what a clincher! that showed me, and others!!

FFS


Benn - Eubank


Benn - Eubank

Ill keep pasting that until one of "you people" figures it out why exactly folks still talk about it today.

That "great" 2nd fight at Old Trafford?...

You keep on saying about this fight, to be honest some boxers are liked more than others and result in good v bad by default. Not every single fight is that way aand they still get talked about regardless.

Go and name me 1 genuinely big fight in history that wasn't essentially marketed as "Good Vs Evil" The oldest story in the world.

You will never get it, will you?

Its hard to argue with someone like you, who cannot grasp basic concepts.

Go and find out what "Promotion" "Context" "Successful" "Docking" and "Fisting" mean.


Then get back to me.

[Giancarlo]

o


You make it sound like are living together.

Which I must say is a lovely image.

perhaps we are, ive never noticed the wife having a dick until now though.

what a shock that was. tape broke.

I can't think of which ladyboy story i was going to post here, there are far too many.

I once wrote an text for a ladyboy that was being sent to her client as she didnt speak great english.

I found out that client in question just happened to be former Holywood star David Carradine.

3 days later he was found dead in his hotel room in Bangkok.

True story.

Not as good as the other 'true story' about you and Greavsie flashing each other in a public toilet.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

Another ufc thread ZZZZzzzzzz, bore off guys. Go troll a UFC / MMA forum because these attempts to "sell " ufc to boxing fans are just becoming embarrassing....

If you read the opening post properly you would see it is a thread regarding current day promoting in boxing with a slight reference to UFC. A lot of posters skimmed over the post, seen "UFC" being mentioned and their boxing defense mechanism kicked into action without taking into account what the opening poster is trying to state.

The Carl Froch reference is spot on in my opinion. Froch would have been a household name across the British Isles 15-20 years ago but it's only the hardcore and over interested casual fan that know about him. It's a bad state of affairs when his missus draws him more attention than his promoter does.

I don't watch UFC and I don't intend to but they have tapped into a market that boxing authorities and promotors took for granted over the years. In terms of a marketing strategy, they have bloody geniuses working for them to be able to get a viewing public like they have, and all in a relatively short period of time.

I think the sport / business of boxing forgot what it was selling.

Lets take Tyson Fury, for example. Why would anyone in their right minds pay to watch him paw his way around the ring for half an hour?

There is a lot of bad promoting being done for a boring product.

Not a great combination.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

perhaps we are, ive never noticed the wife having a dick until now though.

what a shock that was. tape broke.

I can't think of which ladyboy story i was going to post here, there are far too many.

I once wrote an text for a ladyboy that was being sent to her client as she didnt speak great english.

I found out that client in question just happened to be former Holywood star David Carradine.

3 days later he was found dead in his hotel room in Bangkok.

True story.

Not as good as the other 'true story' about you and Greavsie flashing each other in a public toilet.

Both are 100% true, no joke.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

I dont agree with your theory that before each fight we should get a run down of each fighters character, all that good guy bad guy crap would bore the tits of me. Can you imagine watching Wimbledon with that sort of nonsense in the build up? Its not neccessary, this is not WWF. Though i am a big fan of Showtimes fight camp 360, i really loved the insight that offered to what goes on behind the scenes etc. 24/7 i also enjoy, but its really just the Floyd Mayweather show and i find him to be a bit of a childish brat with some sort of ADHD going on. The guys a tool and that show could offer much more than it curently gives.

Isnt 24/7 and 360FC a run down of each fighters character?

Yes, that is a part of the shows and i personally like it, if it is kept real. The general idea of 24/7 and 360 is to give a behind the scenes look at what goes on in the fighters camps (and lifes) in the build up to a big fight. Its not WWF, where they are trying to create or shape a persons character:

"X is a bad guy so we see him generally acting like a pudendum, Y is a good guy, so we see him making with the nice nice."

Yeah, right D

Yes, 24/7 is not at all like WWF, where they are trying to create or shape a persons character..........

I don't know where to begin with that one.....

Its a real as all other reality TV. IE not at all.


Come on, get real..............

[Final round]

Besides saying "I don't particularly like MMA" ?
yes, but they are failing to get said publicity, working hard doesn't mean you are any good.

I have been working hard trying to become the President of France for the last 15 years, but i have had not managed to achieve it.

Various promoters put on decent cards, granted a few don't, but that doesn't justify your earlier statement saying they are all crap..
Laughable, utterly laughable. "Boxing doesn’t need to resort to painting X as a bady and Y as goody" has to be the single most misguided comment i've ever read on here.

what is laughable? Get on topic and state your point...

"Boxing is about who has the better skills to compete and ultimately win on their ability…Thank you and goodnight"

oh yes, what a clincher! that showed me, and others!!

FFS


Benn - Eubank


Benn - Eubank

Ill keep pasting that until one of "you people" figures it out why exactly folks still talk about it today.

That "great" 2nd fight at Old Trafford?...

You keep on saying about this fight, to be honest some boxers are liked more than others and result in good v bad by default. Not every single fight is that way aand they still get talked about regardless.

Go and name me 1 genuinely big fight in history that wasn't essentially marketed as "Good Vs Evil" The oldest story in the world.

You will never get it, will you?

Its hard to argue with someone like you, who cannot grasp basic concepts.

Go and find out what "Promotion" "Context" "Successful" "Docking" and "Fisting" mean.


Then get back to me.

Ok we get it you're disenchanted with the sport and want everyone to see the light and join you in your condemnation...

In fact you've inspired me to join a porn forum ( if such things exist *ahem ) and bemoan at the lack of plot and personality in the skin flicks of today

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

You keep on saying about this fight, to be honest some boxers are liked more than others and result in good v bad by default. Not every single fight is that way aand they still get talked about regardless.

Go and name me 1 genuinely big fight in history that wasn't essentially marketed as "Good Vs Evil" The oldest story in the world.

You will never get it, will you?

Its hard to argue with someone like you, who cannot grasp basic concepts.

Go and find out what "Promotion" "Context" "Successful" "Docking" and "Fisting" mean.


Then get back to me.

Ok we get it you're disenchanted with the sport and want everyone to see the light and join you in your condemnation...

In fact you've inspired me to join a porn forum ( if such things exist *ahem ) and bemoan at the lack of plot and personality in the skin flicks of today

I think people actually do, do that.

[Hook1]

Besides saying "I don't particularly like MMA" ?
yes, but they are failing to get said publicity, working hard doesn't mean you are any good.

I have been working hard trying to become the President of France for the last 15 years, but i have had not managed to achieve it.

Various promoters put on decent cards, granted a few don't, but that doesn't justify your earlier statement saying they are all crap..
Laughable, utterly laughable. "Boxing doesn’t need to resort to painting X as a bady and Y as goody" has to be the single most misguided comment i've ever read on here.

what is laughable? Get on topic and state your point...

"Boxing is about who has the better skills to compete and ultimately win on their ability…Thank you and goodnight"

oh yes, what a clincher! that showed me, and others!!

FFS


Benn - Eubank


Benn - Eubank

Ill keep pasting that until one of "you people" figures it out why exactly folks still talk about it today.

That "great" 2nd fight at Old Trafford?...

You keep on saying about this fight, to be honest some boxers are liked more than others and result in good v bad by default. Not every single fight is that way aand they still get talked about regardless.

Go and name me 1 genuinely big fight in history that wasn't essentially marketed as "Good Vs Evil" The oldest story in the world.

You will never get it, will you?

Its hard to argue with someone like you, who cannot grasp basic concepts.

Go and find out what "Promotion" "Context" "Successful" "Docking" and "Fisting" mean.


Then get back to me.

What I do grasp is that you can't take anybody's opinion apart from your own...and that you can only argue a point by trying to imply that the other person is incompetent and does not understand the subject matter

A fight off the top of my head would be Hagler V Hearn, no good v bad there.

[J]

HATTON PACQUIO another.

[Kilburn]

Watching UFC a bit recently I was struck at the "clarity" of the whole product, stories and characters are established quickly and clearly. X is a bad guy so we see him generally acting like a pudendum, Y is a good guy, so we see him making with the nice nice. They then make sure the audience knows both guys history, giving a story as to how we got to this point where these 2 guys are fighting (Boxing promoters are horrible at doing this, its like they have to keep it a secret) show them knocking some people out and its done.

The audience knows who, why, where, when.

I couldn't agree more with this statement.

What I also love about the UFC is the way the fighter is who he is and that's it. The match making is usually of such a high standard it's almost like a video game in its reliability. The other week I was watching a phenomenal battle between Dan Henderson and Shogun Rua, and apart from during the usual pre fight stats, I don't think there was one mention of the fact that one guy was 42 and the other 29. This was name against name, that's all you needed to know. You trusted the match making to be of the highest order, and so it proved yet again.

I don't know how boxing can expect to attract new fans when a match between the 2 best fighters can't be made. It's bad enough that the match itself is unlikely to live up to the hype in the event that it did happen (neither can win by KO, Mayweather virtually impossible to hit with a clean shot) but now Pacquiao's reputation has taken a real dent while they both move towards their mid thirties.

I only pray Deontay Wilders is the next Riddick Bowe!