ArtOfWar wrote:
Exactly. No one worth his salt is gonna come to shitty f**king Sheffield. Typical British promotional talk. All the big names get mentioned and then Norman no name steps through the ropes. Wake me up when one of these fights actually get's made, because I don't see him doing anything without a mandatory position with one of the sanctionaing bodies. That's gonna be Brook's only route to the top. He doesn't have the drawing power to do it any other way.
You might normally have a point re. big fights being talked up over here only to get someone substandard instead but I have a hunch this won't happen with Brook. For one Sky have just lost a fair portion of their world class and 'name' fighters to allegedly with Mitchell, Burns, Chisora, DeGale, Groves, Saunders, Gavin, Bellew, Cleverly, etc plus Fury is tied up with 5, Khan with Primetime (and not on great terms with Sky ATM), Haye's stock having fallen and retirement seemingly on the horizon and who knows where Matt Macklin will find him self TV wise now he is with Di Bella. Between Matchroom, Hatton and Maloney they have plenty of solid guys who are unlikely to become marquee names (Arron, Rees, Vassell, Crolla, Buckland, Sykes, Munro, Booth, Jeffries, Hall, McDonnell, Rhodes, Murray, Hatton jnr, Purdy, Theophane, Foster, Haskins, etc would all fall into this category IMO). Froch is obviously a huge name for them now (ironic given how long they ingnored him!) but barring him they really have no other 'big' names after Barker's brave defeat (although Quigg, Framton and Price all may make big moves next year). Therefor Brook is probably Sky's biggest star behind Froch right now and I can see them investing heavily in him, no matter how many fans he draws in Sheffield, they will look to build him into a TV star (Adam Smith's bwas doing his best to start this Sat night!).
Along with Sky's desire to re-build will be the huge opportunity Hearn now has to grab the Sky attention space left by Warren's move and look to establish himself big style. Both he and Sky will pump money into Brook and I'll bet you £20 that you'll see plenty of Brook trailed on Sky Sports in the next few months. I'd be unsurprised to see a significant wad of cash put aside for Warren's Sky dates to getting Brook a marquee name in his first fight in 2012, either to tempt Senchenko over, or more likely to see a Malignaggi type opponent lured to a big UK venue. Money talks, and their will be serious cash available from Matchroom and Sky to push Brook along.
I think your missing the point with Sky. They've made the moves they have, because they don't give a s**t about boxing and are spenDing less and less on it. There is absolutely no way they are gonna stump up the cash needed to subsidize a fight between Kell Brook and any big name opponant for a fight in the UK. Senchenko isn't a big name either. He's only being brought up because he holds a title.
It isn't abount Senchenko being a big name over here, he is a big enough name in the Ukraine to stay over there and make a tidy living defending his title against complete bums (at least at World title level). Hence if Brook wants to fight him he'll either have to force a mandatory or tempt him over with a good pay day. Obviously they are not going to pay a fortune to bring over a Berto, Ortiz, etc but they will have to spend a few quid to get over Malignaggi or similar.
Also I think YOU are missing the point with Sky, yes they have looked to cut a few costs but look at the size of boxing staff they have, the production quality, Ringside, etc - not cheap. Compare that with Bunce's boxing hour last night (no critisism of Bunce, who I like, or allegedly who have brought back a popular show) but it looked like it was filmed in an abandoned canteen in siome ex-USSR base in Siberia! Sky has been in boxing for 20 years and will be for a good while yet, but they need an end product which bar Froch and the Prizefighter they don't have after Warren jumped ship. Trust me, though they may not be spending as much as they have in the past, they will invest in Brook, they way the cards have fallen in the last 12 months they need him.
ArtOfWar wrote:
Exactly. No one worth his salt is gonna come to shitty f**king Sheffield.
Calm down, dear.
Depends how big the name has to be. Vivian Harris came to Doncaster to fight Witter for the WBC title.
Not a mega, mega name, granted and I know he was the challenger but it could happen...
I'm almost certain it will happen Ian. I agree, it won't be a Berto, Ortiz, etc but it will be a 'name' or Senchenko and it won't be cheap. Hearn has deep pockets and although he won't go daft he'll invest in his blue chip fighters. Rightly or wrongly (rightly in my eyes) he sees Brook as this and Sky (unless they plan on binning boxing altogether, which is far fetched) need to have a few poster boys for their boxing with Warren off-ski. I'd bet on Price and Brook being given the big push, more Prizefighters and a peace offering to Khan and Goldenboy to achieve this.
ArtOfWar wrote:
Exactly. No one worth his salt is gonna come to shitty f**king Sheffield.
Calm down, dear.
Depends how big the name has to be. Vivian Harris came to Doncaster to fight Witter for the WBC title.
Not a mega, mega name, granted and I know he was the challenger but it could happen...
Glad a few ive seen in Sheffield managed to endure the 'stench', from Brendan sticking his neck out with Lindell Holmes at Bramall Lane to Kalule at city hall to Woods' baby steps and then watching the best of British, Naz,Collins,Haye,Thompson,JC,Hatton etc etc. surely they were worth their salt?
keithmoonhangover wrote:
So he has to improve to earn your support?
I need to see some substance Keith.
You have to see substance from a fighter..... So, by that rationale, you can't support any debutant?
Incorrect thought Keith.
I dont realy watch prelims unless I have watched the fighter in the ams. (Audley Haye, Barker etc) IF I have wtached from the ams my keen eye can usualy spot whether they have it or n not, I havent saw Brook in a real fight yet therefore I cant get into his vibe as it's all very much his way and not an even matchup (yet)
Also I try not to watch to much British boxing as it mostly depresses me.
keithmoonhangover wrote:
So you'll only support him if he is a success?
No if he shows me something that I havent seen from him yet.
Jon, how do you find time to run your Multi-Millionaire pound business empire in Scotland and post on Boxrec so much at the same time and are you still planning to buy Boxrec.com?
Everything I don is mostly self sufficient so I come and go as please but here's the best bit.....YOU CAN GET BOXREC ON YOUR PHONE! Does this amaze you or did you already know this?
What makes you think that we intend to buy Boxrec?
No way on earth he fights Alexander in December. Alexander made over a million dollars of Matthysse in the summer, no way he gets that for a Brook fight at this stage so zero chance of that happening.
Mike Jones is fighting Lujan on 3 December so that isn't happening.
Malignaggi fights this weekend so very unlikely he fights in December, plus i bet he'd want a bucket load of money.
The opponent will be someone who Brook can showcase himself against & they'll say nobody wants to fight him...
El Raincoat wrote:No way on earth he fights Alexander in December. Alexander made over a million dollars of Matthysse in the summer, no way he gets that for a Brook fight at this stage so zero chance of that happening.
Mike Jones is fighting Lujan on 3 December so that isn't happening.
Malignaggi fights this weekend so very unlikely he fights in December, plus i bet he'd want a bucket load of money.
The opponent will be someone who Brook can showcase himself against & they'll say nobody wants to fight him...
There's not even an expressed intention to fight a big name in December. Just a fight to, as you say, showcase him.
But I don't even think this will happen - fine if it does, though.
Jon Saxon wrote:
I need to see some substance Keith.
You have to see substance from a fighter..... So, by that rationale, you can't support any debutant?
Incorrect thought Keith.
I dont realy watch prelims unless I have watched the fighter in the ams. (Audley Haye, Barker etc) IF I have wtached from the ams my keen eye can usualy spot whether they have it or n not, I havent saw Brook in a real fight yet therefore I cant get into his vibe as it's all very much his way and not an even matchup (yet)
Also I try not to watch to much British boxing as it mostly depresses me.
Do you rate Barker? And did you rate him before the Martinez fight?
El Raincoat wrote:No way on earth he fights Alexander in December. Alexander made over a million dollars of Matthysse in the summer, no way he gets that for a Brook fight at this stage so zero chance of that happening.
Mike Jones is fighting Lujan on 3 December so that isn't happening.
Malignaggi fights this weekend so very unlikely he fights in December, plus i bet he'd want a bucket load of money.
The opponent will be someone who Brook can showcase himself against & they'll say nobody wants to fight him...
There's not even an expressed intention to fight a big name in December. Just a fight to, as you say, showcase him.
But I don't even think this will happen - fine if it does, though.
The headline on the home page I miss took. I thought from seeing that, that's who they wanted next.
fizzjambo wrote:
You might normally have a point re. big fights being talked up over here only to get someone substandard instead but I have a hunch this won't happen with Brook. For one Sky have just lost a fair portion of their world class and 'name' fighters to allegedly with Mitchell, Burns, Chisora, DeGale, Groves, Saunders, Gavin, Bellew, Cleverly, etc plus Fury is tied up with 5, Khan with Primetime (and not on great terms with Sky ATM), Haye's stock having fallen and retirement seemingly on the horizon and who knows where Matt Macklin will find him self TV wise now he is with Di Bella. Between Matchroom, Hatton and Maloney they have plenty of solid guys who are unlikely to become marquee names (Arron, Rees, Vassell, Crolla, Buckland, Sykes, Munro, Booth, Jeffries, Hall, McDonnell, Rhodes, Murray, Hatton jnr, Purdy, Theophane, Foster, Haskins, etc would all fall into this category IMO). Froch is obviously a huge name for them now (ironic given how long they ingnored him!) but barring him they really have no other 'big' names after Barker's brave defeat (although Quigg, Framton and Price all may make big moves next year). Therefor Brook is probably Sky's biggest star behind Froch right now and I can see them investing heavily in him, no matter how many fans he draws in Sheffield, they will look to build him into a TV star (Adam Smith's bwas doing his best to start this Sat night!).
Along with Sky's desire to re-build will be the huge opportunity Hearn now has to grab the Sky attention space left by Warren's move and look to establish himself big style. Both he and Sky will pump money into Brook and I'll bet you £20 that you'll see plenty of Brook trailed on Sky Sports in the next few months. I'd be unsurprised to see a significant wad of cash put aside for Warren's Sky dates to getting Brook a marquee name in his first fight in 2012, either to tempt Senchenko over, or more likely to see a Malignaggi type opponent lured to a big UK venue. Money talks, and their will be serious cash available from Matchroom and Sky to push Brook along.
I think your missing the point with Sky. They've made the moves they have, because they don't give a s**t about boxing and are spenDing less and less on it. There is absolutely no way they are gonna stump up the cash needed to subsidize a fight between Kell Brook and any big name opponant for a fight in the UK. Senchenko isn't a big name either. He's only being brought up because he holds a title.
It isn't abount Senchenko being a big name over here, he is a big enough name in the Ukraine to stay over there and make a tidy living defending his title against complete bums (at least at World title level). Hence if Brook wants to fight him he'll either have to force a mandatory or tempt him over with a good pay day. Obviously they are not going to pay a fortune to bring over a Berto, Ortiz, etc but they will have to spend a few quid to get over Malignaggi or similar.
Also I think YOU are missing the point with Sky, yes they have looked to cut a few costs but look at the size of boxing staff they have, the production quality, Ringside, etc - not cheap. Compare that with Bunce's boxing hour last night (no critisism of Bunce, who I like, or allegedly who have brought back a popular show) but it looked like it was filmed in an abandoned canteen in siome ex-USSR base in Siberia! Sky has been in boxing for 20 years and will be for a good while yet, but they need an end product which bar Froch and the Prizefighter they don't have after Warren jumped ship. Trust me, though they may not be spending as much as they have in the past, they will invest in Brook, they way the cards have fallen in the last 12 months they need him.
They are not gonna get Malignaggi over here at all. So who is this 'similar' you speak of?
Sky are not gonna pay big bucks for a boxer who doesn't sell tickets. Barry Hearn is gonna have to find another way to stump up the cash and I don't see where that comes from without tv money.
So like I said originally Brook's route to the top will be to get himself in a mandatory position for a title and then wait for Barry/Eddie Hearn to get it enforced. Then it all comes down to an agreement being made or purse bids. Now when you look at the title holders only Senchenko is a realisitc possibility to come to the UK and you yourself stated he isn't a big name here. And who cares if he's big in Ukraine. That means absolutely nothing in the big picture.
ArtOfWar wrote:
I think your missing the point with Sky. They've made the moves they have, because they don't give a s**t about boxing and are spenDing less and less on it. There is absolutely no way they are gonna stump up the cash needed to subsidize a fight between Kell Brook and any big name opponant for a fight in the UK. Senchenko isn't a big name either. He's only being brought up because he holds a title.
It isn't abount Senchenko being a big name over here, he is a big enough name in the Ukraine to stay over there and make a tidy living defending his title against complete bums (at least at World title level). Hence if Brook wants to fight him he'll either have to force a mandatory or tempt him over with a good pay day. Obviously they are not going to pay a fortune to bring over a Berto, Ortiz, etc but they will have to spend a few quid to get over Malignaggi or similar.
Also I think YOU are missing the point with Sky, yes they have looked to cut a few costs but look at the size of boxing staff they have, the production quality, Ringside, etc - not cheap. Compare that with Bunce's boxing hour last night (no critisism of Bunce, who I like, or allegedly who have brought back a popular show) but it looked like it was filmed in an abandoned canteen in siome ex-USSR base in Siberia! Sky has been in boxing for 20 years and will be for a good while yet, but they need an end product which bar Froch and the Prizefighter they don't have after Warren jumped ship. Trust me, though they may not be spending as much as they have in the past, they will invest in Brook, they way the cards have fallen in the last 12 months they need him.
They are not gonna get Malignaggi over here at all. So who is this 'similar' you speak o
Sky are not gonna pay big bucks for a boxer who doesn't sell tickets. Barry Hearn is gonna have to find another way to stump up the cash and I don't see where that comes from without tv money.
So like I said originally Brook's route to the top will be to get himself in a mandatory position for a title and then wait for Barry/Eddie Hearn to get it enforced. Then it all comes down to an agreement being made or purse bids. Now when you look at the title holders only Senchenko is a realisitc possibility to come to the UK and you yourself stated he isn't a big name here. And who cares if he's big in Ukraine. That means absolutely nothing in the big picture.
Your missing the point re. Senchenko. Him being a draw in the Ukraine is important as it means that a) it isn't going to be easy to win purse bids, if it goes to that, for Hearn as his own promoter knows he can shell out a few quid and still make money through TV and ticket sales over there and b) since Senchenko can get good paydays in the Ukranine he is less likely to be tempted over here for a voluntary.
Also I think you are overstating Malignaggi's earning power in the States. Goldenboy are not investing in Malignaggi as a future champion. They know he has name recognition in NY which may help with cards there in the future and they are using him to pad the telivised section of undercards against no-marks so they can get the four fights HBO require. Malignaggi's best hope is that he is being fattened up for a Golden boy prospect at 147, possibly Alexander or a Ortiz comebac, maybe even Mosely if they think they can drain a few more dollars for Shane if they can get him a creditable win first.
Plus there are a few Malignaggi alikes in the sense that they are not valued as a future champion by their promotors rather a way of getting someone else's career going. As I've already mentioned Top Rank use Alphonso Gomez just like this with Cotto, then Golden boy with Alvarez.
If Brook fights on 17th December it'll be against a threatless name and it will be to boost his profile in the States. It'll also be used to advertise him to Goldenboy, Top Rank, etc and see if they can get a US promoter involved with him as well. Thus a Malignaggi or Gomez is very feasible for next year in the UK.
Finally bare in mind Matchroom have serious financial clout, greater than any other European promotor should they wish to use it. If Eddie really wants to push his boxing (and let's face it he does) he now has loads of dates on Sky available with very few stars around for them. He basically has them over a barrell if they have any interest in boxing for the next 12-18 months as bar Price he has all the potential draws available to them. Plus whether Brook draws a live croud at the moment is irrelevant. Haye didn't draw a crowd, neither did Naz, or Lewis or many others when they broke through. What matters is will they attract a TV audience and Matchroom believe Brook will, as do Sky. Equally that will be what tempts any US promotors.
Jon Saxon wrote:
I need to see some substance Keith.
You have to see substance from a fighter..... So, by that rationale, you can't support any debutant?
Incorrect thought Keith.
I dont realy watch prelims unless I have watched the fighter in the ams. (Audley Haye, Barker etc) IF I have wtached from the ams my keen eye can usualy spot whether they have it or n not, I havent saw Brook in a real fight yet therefore I cant get into his vibe as it's all very much his way and not an even matchup (yet)
Also I try not to watch to much British boxing as it mostly depresses me.
If you don't watch much British boxing, then why don't you move to the Current Scene Forum.
El Raincoat wrote:No way on earth he fights Alexander in December. Alexander made over a million dollars of Matthysse in the summer, no way he gets that for a Brook fight at this stage so zero chance of that happening.
Mike Jones is fighting Lujan on 3 December so that isn't happening.
Malignaggi fights this weekend so very unlikely he fights in December, plus i bet he'd want a bucket load of money.
The opponent will be someone who Brook can showcase himself against & they'll say nobody wants to fight him...
There's not even an expressed intention to fight a big name in December. Just a fight to, as you say, showcase him.
But I don't even think this will happen - fine if it does, though.
Ian I am 75% sure that this will happen.
He wasn't marked or really put through any test in the fight at the weekend so week off and then training 7/8 weeks he will have a showcase fight as not sure Malignaggi will come out of the fight this weekend without any scrapes or a broken hand.
American's need to know who Kell is and this will ultimately possibly lead to a Brook/Jones fight in the future as both unbeaten in similar amount of fights etc. ( Jones should have 1 loss to Soto-Karass though IMO)
King Geedorah wrote:Both Brook and Matthew Hatton are in the Viacheslav Senchenko sweepstakes. Whoever gets him is likely to net a W and a fight with Amir Khan when Khan makes his 147lb debut as he'll need a title going into a fight with Floyd.
Kell is likely to tick over in Dec then try for that WBA.
Never mind the unbelievable story of Dewey...further down the column he reveals how much Senchenko's promoter is prepared to bid to ensure he stays at home!
