Amen.Cholo wrote:Charlie, Thanks so much for the Info on your dads career, I love to watch the old-timers they were well schooled fighters who fought hard and often..CNorkusJr wrote:
Paul, My father had nothing but high praise for Archie when he fought him.
He didnt mention that Archie played mind games with him, probably not needed on a few levels.:
I would think that Willie Pastrano posed more of a threat to Archie and the LtheavyWeight title for each. My father did not pose a threat to Archie's LtHeavy Wt. title as they fought as Heavies.
Archie actually weighed-in more than they father for their fight.
Archie probably wanted to get into Pastrano's head more at that time.
Archie did have a sense of humor too,and it could be just a little "funning" before the media also,that Pastrano didnt like.
And secondly, my father's fight with Archie occurred in 1958,at the close of my father's career. My father was a far cry from his prime in 1954, and this fight along with the Pastrano fight was seen as a "payoff" for the years he put on a good show.
Still possessing a KO punch,and can still draw tickets to his matches,and followers on TV (both fights on National TV) the IBC put the fights together to give my father a big "payday" for playing the game over the years,and making money for the organization. My father still was claiming a shot for Patterson if he could get by Moore or Pastrano, and would probably get one(my father and Patterson were close friends), but realistically was a huge uphill battle to get by Moore & Pastrano at this time in his career. He was relying on one lucky shot or left hook to either's head, both of them knew that and did well to prevent that from happening.
But to answer your question, Moore was a gentleman throughout and my father conveyed that too me.I think Archie understood why this fight was put together, and obliged. The fight game was always a complex study of who was fighting who for the biggest $$$$$$
all around. It's the only thing that remains constant between ALL eras of boxing.
And in ALL of boxing history-perplexes all those involved in boxing on how a Pac-man vs Mayweather fight is not happening as we speak. It goes against all the heavy tide in the sports industry.
Bottom line here: Boxing as well as all sports is a ENTERTAINMENT industry. Matches are put together that will draw the biggest dollars out there from the public and everyone goes home happy." Names & titles are interchangeable"-to paraphrase a quote by Frankie Carbo.
Even more money is made on rematches and trilogies.It boggles ones mind on how Mayweather (Mr. so-called Money) isnt playing to the logic here. My personal belief is that he might feel in his heart he is going to relinguish his titles to him and doesnt want to do that right now. In the fifties,when boxers were NOT as rich as boxers of today,some boxers would sell their souls for a fat pay day.Hence,the business of Carbo and the boys.Unfortunely, they were an untruthful-unreliable bunch who stole boxers blind of their purses.
Classic American West Coast Boxing
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Greatest sports figures in L.A. history, No. 11: Tommy Lasorda
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_ ... sorda.html
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_ ... sorda.html
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Thank You guys for your kind comments.Yes, they were very well schooled by the Best there was then. I know you guys have been around a long time and probably know this already... Amateurs separate the men from the boys after one receives his first punch in the nose. My father said as a Marine in bootcamp-every serviceman thought he was the toughest SOB on earth and since killing was his new field,that he too can now fight in a roped off square on dirt. After getting punched in the nose the first time-it became a line drawn in the sand if he would do that again,unless he was forced to.
If a successful amateur, one tries the Gloves tournaments out in the nation. That could push a amateur up a level or two to maybe compete pro if he looked good.
Pro is now a difficult level-with longer Rds (3 mins) and longer fights 4-6 rds. Many try to get past that level. If a good manager and trainer can get you to steady undercards and steady training, you could be a Class-B fighter back then. with hard work and a hard chin that can take a shot by better opponents-you can actually get the press to recognize you.
Keep in mind here there were only 8 Wt Classes back then. Great fighters fell into these 8 only. Many Classes were 15-20 fighters deep with Class A fighters (as defined by Nat Fleischers Ring Book)and Ring Mag.Hopefully, with Tv coming along, you were exposed now Nationwide to a legion of fans,and if you can put on exciting shows-the bottom line- you kept getting TV roles with better money and a piece of the gate.
TV had its drawbacks-it killed live crowds unless it was a Championship. But TV in 1954 paid each main eventer $5,000 plus piece of gate-minus expenses(10% mgr-3% each corner and cutman)then the taxman(which is another story unto itself). Some fighters had a bill to pay at the training gym too-sometimes mgrs paid it.
The mob worked in many different ways. It always wasn't fixed fights-black and white. Many Gray areas. In my fathers case-because he was a banger-a KO artist- a fan thriller as you might say-they used him differently. He didnt have to go into the tank ever. He never dealt first-hand with the mob. How they made money off of him was easy. The betting odds set by Frank Costello.
If you look at the articles- and the articles I have here not posted-my father was ALWAYS the underdog. No matter who he fought, no matter what streak he ran,he was always the underdog. And any betting man knows if you bet the underdog and wins-you can pull in some cold cash. My fathers first fight with Nardico ,my father was 5-1 underdog to #3 Lt Heavy in world-Danny Nardico. No fix in for this-my father and the mob knew he couldnt handle heavies like my father. Marciano's Weill sends him in there to test Rocky's waters anyway.
Its good newspaper fodder that has all of Fla. betting Nardico with the mob going large Norkus. You seen the fight-a brawl my father won.
2 months later-my father is 4-1 UNDERDOG in rematch. Still betting heavy Nardico for his revenge-mob goes heavy on Norkus again. So the world goes round and round. Thats how it works that particular way. My father then goes out to CA to fight Powell. I'll let you look up the odds in the articles.No fixed fights here. Those are a different kind of animal that my father never had to tangle with as told to me. He held up his end by continuing to be a hard working KO artist threat. Enjoy.
If a successful amateur, one tries the Gloves tournaments out in the nation. That could push a amateur up a level or two to maybe compete pro if he looked good.
Pro is now a difficult level-with longer Rds (3 mins) and longer fights 4-6 rds. Many try to get past that level. If a good manager and trainer can get you to steady undercards and steady training, you could be a Class-B fighter back then. with hard work and a hard chin that can take a shot by better opponents-you can actually get the press to recognize you.
Keep in mind here there were only 8 Wt Classes back then. Great fighters fell into these 8 only. Many Classes were 15-20 fighters deep with Class A fighters (as defined by Nat Fleischers Ring Book)and Ring Mag.Hopefully, with Tv coming along, you were exposed now Nationwide to a legion of fans,and if you can put on exciting shows-the bottom line- you kept getting TV roles with better money and a piece of the gate.
TV had its drawbacks-it killed live crowds unless it was a Championship. But TV in 1954 paid each main eventer $5,000 plus piece of gate-minus expenses(10% mgr-3% each corner and cutman)then the taxman(which is another story unto itself). Some fighters had a bill to pay at the training gym too-sometimes mgrs paid it.
The mob worked in many different ways. It always wasn't fixed fights-black and white. Many Gray areas. In my fathers case-because he was a banger-a KO artist- a fan thriller as you might say-they used him differently. He didnt have to go into the tank ever. He never dealt first-hand with the mob. How they made money off of him was easy. The betting odds set by Frank Costello.
If you look at the articles- and the articles I have here not posted-my father was ALWAYS the underdog. No matter who he fought, no matter what streak he ran,he was always the underdog. And any betting man knows if you bet the underdog and wins-you can pull in some cold cash. My fathers first fight with Nardico ,my father was 5-1 underdog to #3 Lt Heavy in world-Danny Nardico. No fix in for this-my father and the mob knew he couldnt handle heavies like my father. Marciano's Weill sends him in there to test Rocky's waters anyway.
Its good newspaper fodder that has all of Fla. betting Nardico with the mob going large Norkus. You seen the fight-a brawl my father won.
2 months later-my father is 4-1 UNDERDOG in rematch. Still betting heavy Nardico for his revenge-mob goes heavy on Norkus again. So the world goes round and round. Thats how it works that particular way. My father then goes out to CA to fight Powell. I'll let you look up the odds in the articles.No fixed fights here. Those are a different kind of animal that my father never had to tangle with as told to me. He held up his end by continuing to be a hard working KO artist threat. Enjoy.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Flash Elorde...Great Flip fighter
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Alvarez breaks fellow champion's jaw
The Boxing Tribune
Paul Magno
Oct 26, 2011
Tuesday in Guadalajara, Mexico, WBC junior middleweight champ Saul Alvarez and 108-pound titlist Ulises Solis were involved in an altercation that left the smaller fighter with a broken jaw and a cracked tooth.
More coverage
For more boxing news and analysis, check out The Boxing Tribune.
According to Solis, the incident began while both fighters were doing their road work and Alvarez confronted him.
“I ran into Alvarez after training and I moved to the side to let him pass,” Solis told El Universal newspaper, “but he ran into me. He asked me, ‘Why are you messing with my woman?’ I told him that I don’t even know her and all of a sudden he hit me with a left and right cross that fractured my jaw. I fell back and he hit me with two more punches — to the temple and the chest.”
Solis’ brother ran to help and took the fighter to the hospital for evaluation and then to the local authorities to file a complaint.
The fighter is set to undergo surgery shortly and will miss his scheduled title defense in December.
Alvarez, in a statement made to the media shortly after the incident, denied being the aggressor and indicated that it was actually his brother who had attacked the junior flyweight star.
The Boxing Tribune
Paul Magno
Oct 26, 2011
Tuesday in Guadalajara, Mexico, WBC junior middleweight champ Saul Alvarez and 108-pound titlist Ulises Solis were involved in an altercation that left the smaller fighter with a broken jaw and a cracked tooth.
More coverage
For more boxing news and analysis, check out The Boxing Tribune.
According to Solis, the incident began while both fighters were doing their road work and Alvarez confronted him.
“I ran into Alvarez after training and I moved to the side to let him pass,” Solis told El Universal newspaper, “but he ran into me. He asked me, ‘Why are you messing with my woman?’ I told him that I don’t even know her and all of a sudden he hit me with a left and right cross that fractured my jaw. I fell back and he hit me with two more punches — to the temple and the chest.”
Solis’ brother ran to help and took the fighter to the hospital for evaluation and then to the local authorities to file a complaint.
The fighter is set to undergo surgery shortly and will miss his scheduled title defense in December.
Alvarez, in a statement made to the media shortly after the incident, denied being the aggressor and indicated that it was actually his brother who had attacked the junior flyweight star.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Greatest sports figures in L.A. history, No. 10: Jackie Robinson
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_ ... inson.html
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_ ... inson.html
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Randy I see Austen Trout is fighting Frank LoPorto for WBA Lt-middy title in Texas on Nov 11th. (Main Event). Hope he knocks his block off. Tickets still available.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
ST. LOUIS . . . WORLD CHAMPIONS . . . 'NUFF SAID. 
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
raylawpc wrote:ST. LOUIS . . . WORLD CHAMPIONS . . . 'NUFF SAID.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing


Got Smokin'Joe Frazier on my mind today. Thinking about his big heart. Man, I loved watching that guy fight. Perpetual motion and always coming forward. Joe was a man's man. There was no bullshit about him. As a man he had few equals, as a fighter, even less. Today, no one comes close, not by a long shot. We're all praying for you Joe!
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Charlie, Austin is one of the good guys. I hope he gets good exposure from this fight, it'll be on Showtime. I hope he can hold on to the title for a long time and make some money.CNorkusJr wrote:Randy I see Austen Trout is fighting Frank LoPorto for WBA Lt-middy title in Texas on Nov 11th. (Main Event). Hope he knocks his block off. Tickets still available.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Randyman wrote:
Got Smokin'Joe Frazier on my mind today. Thinking about his big heart. Man, I loved watching that guy fight. Perpetual motion and always coming forward. Joe was a man's man. There was no bullshit about him. As a man he had few equals, as a fighter, even less. Today, no one comes close, not by a long shot. We're all praying for you Joe!
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I'll be watching and rooting him in all the way !!!!Randyman wrote:Charlie, Austin is one of the good guys. I hope he gets good exposure from this fight, it'll be on Showtime. I hope he can hold on to the title for a long time and make some money.CNorkusJr wrote:Randy I see Austen Trout is fighting Frank LoPorto for WBA Lt-middy title in Texas on Nov 11th. (Main Event). Hope he knocks his block off. Tickets still available.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
On another, lighter topic - great fight tonight on HBO after dark.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I am sorry to learn that Joe Frazier has come down with liver cancer and was put in a hospice.
What a great, courageous, aggressive and exciting fighter he was, the type which the heavyweight division is lacking at the present time. I hope that Frazier, his family and friends accept my best wishes.
- Chuck Johnston
What a great, courageous, aggressive and exciting fighter he was, the type which the heavyweight division is lacking at the present time. I hope that Frazier, his family and friends accept my best wishes.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
It is my understanding that Alfredo Angulo took a terrible beating in his bout with James Kirkland. If that is true, why didn't Angulo's corner or the referee make an effort to get the fight stopped sooner?
- Chuck Johnston
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
CNorkusJr wrote:Though Kirkland was picking Angulo apart throughout the fight, Angulo was throwing punches back and defending himself. The ref stopped the fight at the right time.Chuck1052 wrote:It is my understanding that Alfredo Angulo took a terrible beating in his bout with James Kirkland. If that is true, why didn't Angulo's corner or the referee make an effort to get the fight stopped sooner?
- Chuck Johnston
His face was that of a beaten man, but he did fight back at key intervals of Kirkland onslaught.
Take into consideration the fight was in Angulo's mother country, the announcer's as well as the people in Kirkland's corner knew that Kirkland would have to beat Angulo like that to get the win. Mexico is known to give fights away to the home favorite if it ever went to a decision-Kirkland had to beat him to get the victory,and Mexico let the fight go till he could take no more. My opinion.
No different than what Gatti used to look like after a fight he won !
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Chuck, he was still punching in there. Just when it looked like Angulo was finished, he would come back on Kirkland. But he came back less and less as the fight progressed. The ref was right to stop it about when he did.Chuck1052 wrote:It is my understanding that Alfredo Angulo took a terrible beating in his bout with James Kirkland. If that is true, why didn't Angulo's corner or the referee make an effort to get the fight stopped sooner?
- Chuck Johnston
Boy, that first round was a doozy!
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Smokin' Joe Frazier 1944 - 2011
R.I.P. Champ
Joe Frazier has died. A little piece of my past has gone with him. He was one of my boyhood idols. Hard to believe. To have been a young fan of boxing during one of the greatest era of heavyweight boxing is something I will never forget. That was at a time when the heavyweight title was the biggest prize in all of sports, maybe bigger than just about anything. On March 8, 1971 Joe Frazier beat my other boyhood idol, Muhammad Ali in their epic 15 round championship fight. On that night Joe Frazier was king of the world.
My condolences to the Frazier family. Go with God Joe!
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Well said, Randy. God bless Joe Frazier.Randyman wrote:
Smokin' Joe Frazier 1944 - 2011
R.I.P. Champ
Joe Frazier has died. A little piece of my past has gone with him. He was one of my boyhood idols. Hard to believe. To have been a young fan of boxing during one of the greatest era of heavyweight boxing is something I will never forget. That was at a time when the heavyweight title was the biggest prize in all of sports, maybe bigger than just about anything. On March 8, 1971 Joe Frazier beat my other boyhood idol, Muhammad Ali in their epic 15 round championship fight. On that night Joe Frazier was king of the world.
My condolences to the Frazier family. Go with God Joe!
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
What sad news. As a fan over the last forty years, I can't remember a great heavyweight who could match Joe Frazier when it came to workrate, relentless aggression, body punching and his powerful left-hook. Moreover, he matched Muhammad Ali and Evander Holyfield in the heart department. The heavyweight division is in a very bad state today because there isn't a fighter like Frazier to make it so compelling.
I hope that Frazier's family accept my condolences.
- Chuck Johnston
I hope that Frazier's family accept my condolences.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

I'm trying to find some kind of way to describe to a younger generation just how big the first fight between Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali was. If ever there was a fight that could accurately be deemed “The Fight of the Century” this was the one. It is often, just simply called “The Fight”. No explanation is needed.
Oh, there were other so called “Fights of the Century” but in terms of historic epic heavyweight fights, only Joe Louis vs Max Schmeling II, and perhaps Jack Johnson vs James J. Jeffries come close. But this fight had something that no other heavyweight fight before it had; two undefeated heavyweights, each with a legitimate claim to the heavyweight title, the biggest prize in all of sports, perhaps the biggest prize anywhere. Add to that all the media attention that was not available to those other fights. The timing was right.
So big was the fight across the world that countries shut down and a war was put on hold – Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali were going to fight. Celebrities, politicians, anyone and everyone wanted to be part of the act. Frank Sinatra himself was to cover the fight as the photographer for Life magazine (I have that issue).
I was a junior in high school when this fight took place. When I think, talk or write about this fight, or either fighter, it is always through the eyes of a 16 year old boy, I can't help it. As I write this my eyes are welling up with tears as I remember. Both of these guys were my boxing heroes. It was hard for me to think of them fighting each other.
If you have read anything I have written before you know that my heart sometimes-No, make that always-overrides my head. I wear my heart on my sleeves. There is no hiding who I like and who I dislike. So when it was announced that Frazier and Ali were going to fight, I was besides myself, trying to decide where to place my loyalty. Ultimately, I put my $5.00 weekly lunch money on Smokin' Joe (I didn't tell my parents).
My father, a fighter in the army, was an old school fight fan and came from a time when fighters fought, not talked, and so he was not a fan of Ali. His guys were; Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Jerry Quarry and of course, Joe Frazier. Many from that generation could never quite warm up to Ali's bombastic style of boasting. Me? I ate it up. I knew it was all an act. Still, Joe Frazier; stoic, fierce and with a determined scowl, pacing back and forth like a wild cat, anticipating his prey, really grabbed me.
Ali had a way of getting inside a fighter's head. He would find out what another fighter's button was and than push it, and no one could push it like Ali. Frazier had built a wall around himself and Ali was never able to penetrate it. What we know now, that we didn't know then, or at least I didn't, was that Ali's words did hurt Joe. The “Uncle Tom” and “Gorilla” tags hurt Joe to the core of his being and he carried that resentment and anger throughout his life.
Somehow, Joe was able to channel that anger inside the ring. Relentless, forward moving and constantly throwing punches, but always in control.
Ali, as almost everyone already knows, was coming back from a three year exile. His last fight before he was stripped of the heavyweight title was a 15 round title defense against Zora Folley, stopping Folley in the 7th round and defending his WBA title.
It would be three years before Ali would fight again. In his comeback Ali had taken on a new persona. He was now a genuine folk hero. He had taken a stance against the U.S. Government and the Viet Nam War and he won. As much as he was hated, or disliked before the exile, the political and social change that had swept the country made him bigger than ever. Not to say that there were no longer any Ali haters, but they were no longer the majority.
Ali fought again on October, 1970 when a fight was finally secured in Atlanta, Georgia against popular and ever tough West Coast favorite, “Irish” Jerry Quarry. Ali would stop Quarry in the 3rd round. Officially the fight was a TKO due to cuts.
His next bout was with Argentina's Oscar Bonavena in December of 1970, at Madison Square Garden, New York. Ali stopped Bonavena in the 15th round after knocking the Argentinian down three times in the final round. Ali had dominated the fight. Next up: Joe Frazier.
In June of 1969, Frazier defeated Jerry Quarry – in Ring Magazine's fight of the year- to win the New York version of the heavyweight title by stopping Quarry in the 7th round of their scheduled 15 round fight.
Next on Frazier's hit list was Jimmy Ellis, for the vacant WBC title, as well as the WBA heavyweight title, also at stake was Joe's NYSAC heavyweight title. Ellis had won his version of the heavyweight championship by defeating Jerry Quarry a year earlier to win the heavyweight tournament. Ellis would be TKO'ed in 5 rounds. The fight was scheduled for 15 rounds. Joe Frazier was now the Heavyweight Champion of the world. Joe made quick work of his next opponent, light heavy king, Bob Foster, as Foster attempted to take the crown from Frazier. Foster was knocked out in the 2nd round. Next up: Muhammad Ali.
Back at school, as the fight was approaching, those that followed boxing, and even those that didn't typically follow the sport, were broken into two camps: Frazier or Ali. It wasn't just school though, it was like that everywhere. I stayed out of any arguments. Despite the fact that I had picked Frazier to win, I was still a fan of Ali. I picked Frazier because, at that time and from what I had seen. I thought him invincible. As far as my heart was concerned, I was loyal to both. I would say nothing bad about Ali. Both were the heavyweight champions.
This was all taking place before cable and PPV television. So we had to depend on the news from the radio and of course, from the paper the next day. The fight took place at Madison Square Garden, in New York. The Garden and New York were still the epicenter of boxing in those days. The referee was Arthur Mercante. Joe Frazier beat Ali by unanimous decision and was now the absolute undisputed heavyweight champion of the word. Ali was down in the 15th round as a result of a Frazier left hook. I still have the newspaper from that day, forty plus years later. It's wrinkled, fragile and yellow now. It's in a box somewhere. The fight was front page news all across the globe.
I had bragging rights at school, but really as happy as I was that Frazier had won the fight I was equally unhappy that Ali had lost. I was going to feel that way regardless of who won and lost. It's the price you pay for loving your fighters.
Over the years I have seen the fight on rebroadcasts and later on Youtube (a boxing fans best friend). Ali seemed in control in the early rounds but Joe was smoking and he just was not going to lose. I never tire of watching it.
They fought three times in total. Their last fight , in 1975, was “The Thrilla in Manilla” which might have even surpassed the first fight. That fight ended in the 14th round when trainer and cornerman, the late and great Eddie Futch refused to let Joe come out for the final round. It's said that both men were near death that day. Whether that's true or not, I couldn't say. What I do know is that both men damaged each other. They fought each other with every fiber of their beings. They took each other to a place that most of us will never see or imagine. Neither of them were never again the same. Their fights with each other were of epic, almost mythical proportion. They were giants.
Their rivalry and trilogy was one for the ages. Their feud transcended the ring. In the last couple of years, they finally made peace with each other. Joe forgave Ali for the words, and belittlement. God Bless him for that.
I was lucky to be a fight fan when giants still fought in the ring. Smokin' Joe Frazier, a fighter's fighter and a man's man. Goodbye Joe, I'll miss you!
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Thank You for your writings on Joe Frazier Randy. Sentiments expressed by many.
Just want to let you all know that tonight Tues 11/8 at 7 or 8 pm (EDT) on ESPN classic.
Showing Tony Baltazar vs Hector Comacho fight !!.
Just noticed it now as I scrolled on TV stations. Because of Joe Frazier's passing-they dont opt out and change it to another fight. Maybe ?
Hope Frank knows.
Just want to let you all know that tonight Tues 11/8 at 7 or 8 pm (EDT) on ESPN classic.
Showing Tony Baltazar vs Hector Comacho fight !!.
Just noticed it now as I scrolled on TV stations. Because of Joe Frazier's passing-they dont opt out and change it to another fight. Maybe ?
Hope Frank knows.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
A very thoughtful piece, Randy. Well done. My recollections and feelings as a 16-year-old on March 8, 1971 were somewhat different because I have never liked Muhammad Ali. And so there was no conflict for me: I was absolutely thrilled that somebody finally knocked the bejesus out of Ali, and the fact that it was Joe Frazier - my favorite fighter in the world - made that result all the more sweet.Randyman wrote:
I'm trying to find some kind of way to describe to a younger generation just how big the first fight between Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali was. If ever there was a fight that could accurately be deemed “The Fight of the Century” this was the one. It is often, just simply called “The Fight”. No explanation is needed.
Oh, there were other so called “Fights of the Century” but in terms of historic epic heavyweight fights, only Joe Louis vs Max Schmeling II, and perhaps Jack Johnson vs James J. Jeffries come close. But this fight had something that no other heavyweight fight before it had; two undefeated heavyweights, each with a legitimate claim to the heavyweight title, the biggest prize in all of sports, perhaps the biggest prize anywhere. Add to that all the media attention that was not available to those other fights. The timing was right.
So big was the fight across the world that countries shut down and a war was put on hold – Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali were going to fight. Celebrities, politicians, anyone and everyone wanted to be part of the act. Frank Sinatra himself was to cover the fight as the photographer for Life magazine (I have that issue).
I was a junior in high school when this fight took place. When I think, talk or write about this fight, or either fighter, it is always through the eyes of a 16 year old boy, I can't help it. As I write this my eyes are welling up with tears as I remember. Both of these guys were my boxing heroes. It was hard for me to think of them fighting each other.
If you have read anything I have written before you know that my heart sometimes-No, make that always-overrides my head. I wear my heart on my sleeves. There is no hiding who I like and who I dislike. So when it was announced that Frazier and Ali were going to fight, I was besides myself, trying to decide where to place my loyalty. Ultimately, I put my $5.00 weekly lunch money on Smokin' Joe (I didn't tell my parents).
My father, a fighter in the army, was an old school fight fan and came from a time when fighters fought, not talked, and so he was not a fan of Ali. His guys were; Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Jerry Quarry and of course, Joe Frazier. Many from that generation could never quite warm up to Ali's bombastic style of boasting. Me? I ate it up. I knew it was all an act. Still, Joe Frazier; stoic, fierce and with a determined scowl, pacing back and forth like a wild cat, anticipating his prey, really grabbed me.
Ali had a way of getting inside a fighter's head. He would find out what another fighter's button was and than push it, and no one could push it like Ali. Frazier had built a wall around himself and Ali was never able to penetrate it. What we know now, that we didn't know then, or at least I didn't, was that Ali's words did hurt Joe. The “Uncle Tom” and “Gorilla” tags hurt Joe to the core of his being and he carried that resentment and anger throughout his life.
Somehow, Joe was able to channel that anger inside the ring. Relentless, forward moving and constantly throwing punches, but always in control.
Ali, as almost everyone already knows, was coming back from a three year exile. His last fight before he was stripped of the heavyweight title was a 15 round title defense against Zora Folley, stopping Folley in the 7th round and defending his WBA title.
It would be three years before Ali would fight again. In his comeback Ali had taken on a new persona. He was now a genuine folk hero. He had taken a stance against the U.S. Government and the Viet Nam War and he won. As much as he was hated, or disliked before the exile, the political and social change that had swept the country made him bigger than ever. Not to say that there were no longer any Ali haters, but they were no longer the majority.
Ali fought again on October, 1970 when a fight was finally secured in Atlanta, Georgia against popular and ever tough West Coast favorite, “Irish” Jerry Quarry. Ali would stop Quarry in the 3rd round. Officially the fight was a TKO due to cuts.
His next bout was with Argentina's Oscar Bonavena in December of 1970, at Madison Square Garden, New York. Ali stopped Bonavena in the 15th round after knocking the Argentinian down three times in the final round. Ali had dominated the fight. Next up: Joe Frazier.
In June of 1969, Frazier defeated Jerry Quarry – in Ring Magazine's fight of the year- to win the New York version of the heavyweight title by stopping Quarry in the 7th round of their scheduled 15 round fight.
Next on Frazier's hit list was Jimmy Ellis, for the vacant WBC title, as well as the WBA heavyweight title, also at stake was Joe's NYSAC heavyweight title. Ellis had won his version of the heavyweight championship by defeating Jerry Quarry a year earlier to win the heavyweight tournament. Ellis would be TKO'ed in 5 rounds. The fight was scheduled for 15 rounds. Joe Frazier was now the Heavyweight Champion of the world. Joe made quick work of his next opponent, light heavy king, Bob Foster, as Foster attempted to take the crown from Frazier. Foster was knocked out in the 2nd round. Next up: Muhammad Ali.
Back at school, as the fight was approaching, those that followed boxing, and even those that didn't typically follow the sport, were broken into two camps: Frazier or Ali. It wasn't just school though, it was like that everywhere. I stayed out of any arguments. Despite the fact that I had picked Frazier to win, I was still a fan of Ali. I picked Frazier because, at that time and from what I had seen. I thought him invincible. As far as my heart was concerned, I was loyal to both. I would say nothing bad about Ali. Both were the heavyweight champions.
This was all taking place before cable and PPV television. So we had to depend on the news from the radio and of course, from the paper the next day. The fight took place at Madison Square Garden, in New York. The Garden and New York were still the epicenter of boxing in those days. The referee was Arthur Mercante. Joe Frazier beat Ali by unanimous decision and was now the absolute undisputed heavyweight champion of the word. Ali was down in the 15th round as a result of a Frazier left hook. I still have the newspaper from that day, forty plus years later. It's wrinkled, fragile and yellow now. It's in a box somewhere. The fight was front page news all across the globe.
I had bragging rights at school, but really as happy as I was that Frazier had won the fight I was equally unhappy that Ali had lost. I was going to feel that way regardless of who won and lost. It's the price you pay for loving your fighters.
Over the years I have seen the fight on rebroadcasts and later on Youtube (a boxing fans best friend). Ali seemed in control in the early rounds but Joe was smoking and he just was not going to lose. I never tire of watching it.
They fought three times in total. Their last fight , in 1975, was “The Thrilla in Manilla” which might have even surpassed the first fight. That fight ended in the 14th round when trainer and cornerman, the late and great Eddie Futch refused to let Joe come out for the final round. It's said that both men were near death that day. Whether that's true or not, I couldn't say. What I do know is that both men damaged each other. They fought each other with every fiber of their beings. They took each other to a place that most of us will never see or imagine. Neither of them were never again the same. Their fights with each other were of epic, almost mythical proportion. They were giants.
Their rivalry and trilogy was one for the ages. Their feud transcended the ring. In the last couple of years, they finally made peace with each other. Joe forgave Ali for the words, and belittlement. God Bless him for that.
I was lucky to be a fight fan when giants still fought in the ring. Smokin' Joe Frazier, a fighter's fighter and a man's man. Goodbye Joe, I'll miss you!
Don't misunderstand: I did admire both as fighters - I still do. But I admired only Frazier as a man.
But now is not the time to vent my dislike of Ali; it's the time to remember Joe. And I'll never forget him. God bless Joe Frazier - a CHAMPION.
