New York State HOF

[wsbuf]

Maybe they should look a little more outside the City.

Here's the first class to be inducted. It includes 12 boxers, and eight non-boxers.

"Sugar" Ray Robinson, "Iron" Mike Tyson, Jake "Bronx Bull" LaMotta, Carmen "Upstate Onion Farmer" Basilio, Riddick "Big Daddy" Bowe, Carlos Ortiz, Mike "Bodysnatcher" McCallum, Gene "The Fighting Marine" Tunney, Benny "The Ghetto Wizard" Leonard and Tony Canzoneri. Also, judge/HBO analyst Harold Lederman, coach/instructor Steve Acunto, trainer/cut-man Jimmy Glenn and, posthumously, trainers Gil Clancy and Ray Arcel, Ring Magazine founder Nat Fleischer, New York Daily News boxing reporter/cartoonist Bill Gallo, and referee Arthur Mercante Sr.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Im not sure Id include McCallum or Ortiz. Could Wilfred Benitez be included, then?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I don't see why not and if Bowe, McCallum or Tyson were greater than Barney Ross than so am I.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Personally, Id consider Ortiz Rican, and McCallum Jamaican.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

So would I, that still doesn't explain the exclusion of Barney.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Which I wont defend when theyre including Bowe, mate.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Ok

[raylawpc]

Im not sure Id include McCallum or Ortiz. Could Wilfred Benitez be included, then?

Why wouldn't you include Ortiz? According to the press release announcing the inductions, "All boxers had to be inactive for at least three years and all inductees had to have lived in New York State for a significant portion of their careers."

Ortiz lived in New York for most of his career.

[raylawpc]

So would I, that still doesn't explain the exclusion of Barney.

According to the press release announcing the inductions, "All boxers had to be inactive for at least three years and all inductees had to have lived in New York State for a significant portion of their careers."

If memory serves, Barney was born in New York but moved to Chicago as a small child and lived in Chicago for most of his life. I don't think he lived in New York for any portion of his career, much less a significant portion of it.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I disagree with their interpretation for eligibility. If I moved to Brisbane and stayed there, that wouldnt make me a Queenslander, or, to put this in terms not quite as comparable but for a global audience, moving to China wouldnt make me Chinese.

Ortiz, to me, is Rican (like Benitez, though he apparently isnt in the conversation).

[raylawpc]

I disagree with their interpretation for eligibility. If I moved to Brisbane and stayed there, that wouldnt make me a Queenslander, or, to put this in terms not quite as comparable but for a global audience, moving to China wouldnt make me Chinese.

Ortiz, to me, is Rican (like Benitez, though he apparently isnt in the conversation).

How the heck can you disagree with "their interpretation of eligibility?!?" It's THEIR Hall of Fame! If you don't like "their interpretation of eligibility" start your own Hall of Fame.

If you want to quibble with whether he was deserving, or whether he lived in NY for a "substantial portion" of his career, fine. But Ortiz did live in NY for a substantial portion of his career, and I don't hear you saying he shouldn't get in because he wasn't deserving enough. You just don't like their definition of New Yorker. Too bad, it is their definition.

[wsbuf]

The other two boxers omitted from first post are: Vito Antuofermo and Emile Griffith.

Should be called the NY City Hall of Fame (except Basilio)

[CNorkusJr]

Maybe you guys should be aware that that when the selection commitee drew up the first class of "possible candidates" for the NYS Boxing HOF- They concluded that they had 120 Champion fighters alone that can claim eligibility to NYS. Worth saying twice- 120 Champions alone dating back to bareknuckles.(I do not know if bareknuckles are included-but I can find out)
This does not include top contenders who also came from NYS.
Note:I am a member of Ring 8-and do not sit on any NYS Boxing HOF committees.

The Main Question they had to decide was how many fighters and how many others (trainers/writers/officials etc etc) were going to be inducted.

As expected-it will be a long time before any favorites that you discuss here on this thread will be brought in-but they had to start somewhere.
Unquestionably-NYS has had more foreign-born Champs reside here than any other place as many like Ortiz, or Jose Torres has resided here for a good portion of their career.Especially if it was their Champion years.
California Boxing HOF might give it a good run if they include Mexican fighters.(which they do).
Goodness sake-Even Joe Frazier lived in Harlem when he first came up from South Carolina.

This is Inaugaral Class. There are bound to arguements over who goes in before whom.
Just enjoy the ride.


Added: It might make it even more interesting if they include fighters that also had a big impact on the boxing sport and fought in New York. Many different state HOF's do include boxers that had a impact on the sport in their state as well. If thats the case with New York- A virtual who's who fought in Madison Sq Garden and the likes over the years too.
If thats the case-then who cant count out Muhammed Ali & Joe Frazier-commonly referred to as the biggest fight of the century and held in NYC.

[raylawpc]

Maybe you guys should be aware that that when the selection commitee drew up the first class of "possible candidates" for the NYS Boxing HOF- They concluded that they had 120 Champion fighters alone that can claim eligibility to NYS. Worth saying twice- 120 Champions alone dating back to bareknuckles.(I do not know if bareknuckles are included-but I can find out)
This does not include top contenders who also came from NYS.
Note:I am a member of Ring 8-and do not sit on any NYS Boxing HOF committees.

The Main Question they had to decide was how many fighters and how many others (trainers/writers/officials etc etc) were going to be inducted.

As expected-it will be a long time before any favorites that you discuss here on this thread will be brought in-but they had to start somewhere.
Unquestionably-NYS has had more foreign-born Champs reside here than any other place as many like Ortiz, or Jose Torres has resided here for a good portion of their career.Especially if it was their Champion years.
California Boxing HOF might give it a good run if they include Mexican fighters.(which they do).
Goodness sake-Even Joe Frazier lived in Harlem when he first came up from South Carolina.

This is Inaugaral Class. There are bound to arguements over who goes in before whom.
Just enjoy the ride.


Added: It might make it even more interesting if they include fighters that also had a big impact on the boxing sport and fought in New York. Many different state HOF's do include boxers that had a impact on the sport in their state as well. If thats the case with New York- A virtual who's who fought in Madison Sq Garden and the likes over the years too.
If thats the case-then who cant count out Muhhamed Ali & Joe Frazier-commonly referred to as the biggest fight of the century and held in NYC.

California is much more open with their Hall of Fame. If memory serves, one qualifies for the CBHOF if one had just one or two fights there. Personally, I like the NYSBHOF eligibility rules better, but, hey, to each it's own.

[CNorkusJr]

The other two boxers omitted from first post are: Vito Antuofermo and Emile Griffith.

Should be called the NY City Hall of Fame (except Basilio)

By the fact that Carmen Basilio will be Inducted into the First Class of the NYS Boxing HOF,your comments of calling it the NY cIty HOF is unnecessary diatribe.

The NYS Boxing HOF made it perfectly clear at its announcement a few months back that it is a STATE HOF and not A City HOF. I can understand your rush to include Buffalo boxers and upstate boxers to the HOF,but why cant they get on line like everyone else.
I'm sure Mike DeJohn will get in. Why wouldn't he ?

Your statement about Emile Griffith being omitted is perplexing and correct. Just a few nights ago,his stepson Luis (and closest family member) came to the Ring 8 meeting and gave us an update on Emile's condition in an assisted living facility here on Long Island. He is doing better than last month-but he is not in good health. Emile does attend many Boxing dinners and functions here if he is well,but things are changing rapidly. I am very surprised myself on him not getting in on this class.

[wsbuf]

He is getting in. The information in my first post didn't include Vito or Emile because site I got it from failed to mention them. They are going in also.

As far as getting in line? Well 11 of 12 boxers from City? Vito, McCallum and Bowe over Slattery or Kansas?

[CNorkusJr]

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/boxing ... -announced

This is the only post I got on it to date. I dont see Emile on it. Maybe they added a few others or just Emile, I dont know at this moment. Maybe someone can confirm ?

I do not know how they came to their decisions-but I would think Bowe would be down that line further myself. Its all subject to arguability I guess.

[CNorkusJr]

http://www.boxinginsider.com/headlines/ ... inductees/

I see the new post now. I stand corrected. It looks like only New York State fighters too.

[Ric]

To my eye, both the IBHOF and WBHOF also appear to be provincial--meaning that they focus on the careers of North American boxers. Maybe because the voters, including those who get to nominate what boxers should be on the ballot, are virtually all North Americans themselves.

Boxing has been an international sport since forever. First in Europe, crossing the Pond to the Americas, and spreading to Asia and Africa, etc. Yet, the so-called "recognized" boxing halls of fame are all American-based. Any wonder that they concentrate on North American boxers?

I would suggest that these two halls of fame open up their voting members to include a more international membership. Boxing historians from throughout the world.

This rant of mine was prompted after I today was creating and editing a Wiki page about Spartakiad boxing that my Norwegian boxing historian friend Tron Realf Jensen had originally written and sent to me to put on the BoxRec Wiki. Never heard of a boxing Spartakiad? Then my point is about the lack of knowledge by voting members of the so-called recognized Halls of Fame of old-time international boxing history is made.