Cliff Field as a professional

[reggaereggae]

If you read any of the unlicensed stuff, Cliff Fields stand out for his skill and results. He Ko'd Lenny McClean twice I think.

His pro record is as follows:

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

Does anyone know about him as a pro? I see he got stopped twice by Ref Billy Aird; but apparently was untouchable as an unlicensed fighter.... Are unlicensed fighters just uncompetitive with pros? On the other other hand Roy Shaw beat world class Ron Standner....

I can't believe that unlicensed/pro fighters can stand with pro boxers but who knows

[Tomasino]

If you read any of the unlicensed stuff, Cliff Fields stand out for his skill and results. He Ko'd Lenny McClean twice I think.

His pro record is as follows:

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

Does anyone know about him as a pro? I see he got stopped twice by Ref Billy Aird; but apparently was untouchable as an unlicensed fighter.... Are unlicensed fighters just uncompetitive with pros? On the other other hand Roy Shaw beat world class Ron Standner....

I can't believe that unlicensed/pro fighters can stand with pro boxers but who knows

According to Roy Shaws book he was lucky to get the win against Stander due to a broken rib suffered by Ron in training.

I read it over 10th yrs ago but I got the strong impression from the book that Ron Stander with a broken rib was still the hardest man Roy faced.

[stevieb_8006]

some of these hard nuts just arent cut out for the pros,either mentally or athletically. they love a fight but if some1 boxes them and fiddles them about to pick up points they tend to switch off. Easy to frustrate, thats what i reckon. easy to outbox but not to actually put away if that makes sense.

saying that, i think a lot of them get a few wins and live off their reputation for years and years. For instance, if youve seen that documentary Knuckle, they r all "king of the gypsys" or "the best fighting man in the country" but they actually only ever face people within their own little community. Its like fighting the same four people every month and proclaiming yourself unbeatable.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

If you read any of the unlicensed stuff, Cliff Fields stand out for his skill and results. He Ko'd Lenny McClean twice I think.

His pro record is as follows:

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

Does anyone know about him as a pro? I see he got stopped twice by Ref Billy Aird; but apparently was untouchable as an unlicensed fighter.... Are unlicensed fighters just uncompetitive with pros? On the other other hand Roy Shaw beat world class Ron Standner....

I can't believe that unlicensed/pro fighters can stand with pro boxers but who knows

According to Roy Shaws book he was lucky to get the win against Stander due to a broken rib suffered by Ron in training.

I read it over 10th yrs ago but I got the strong impression from the book that Ron Stander with a broken rib was still the hardest man Roy faced.

Roy Shaw actually admitted if not for the rib injury that Stander would have 'mullered' him, and that Stander was laughing at Roy's best shots.

[Tomasino]

If you read any of the unlicensed stuff, Cliff Fields stand out for his skill and results. He Ko'd Lenny McClean twice I think.

His pro record is as follows:

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

Does anyone know about him as a pro? I see he got stopped twice by Ref Billy Aird; but apparently was untouchable as an unlicensed fighter.... Are unlicensed fighters just uncompetitive with pros? On the other other hand Roy Shaw beat world class Ron Standner....

I can't believe that unlicensed/pro fighters can stand with pro boxers but who knows

According to Roy Shaws book he was lucky to get the win against Stander due to a broken rib suffered by Ron in training.

I read it over 10th yrs ago but I got the strong impression from the book that Ron Stander with a broken rib was still the hardest man Roy faced.

Roy Shaw actually admitted if not for the rib injury that Stander would have 'mullered' him, and that Stander was laughing at Roy's best shots.

I thought so. I don't have the book anymore so could only go by memory. Just shows you the difference in levels between the pros and unlicensed.

[johnnykayo]

cliff was a good boxer as well as on the unlicensed circuit,a big puncher too. he was chief sparring partner to joe bugner for many years and even dropped ali in a sparring session,fact ! cliff was a good amateur and a navy champion,unfortunately his life took a turn for the worse as he went through a messy divorce and he hit the bottle big time and he ended on the streets,the last few years of his life he lived in a hostel. but one helluva tough man,he really could have a row !

[rob h]

Is he still around? I never seen footage or him just heard the stories.

[Old bones Ian]

Is he still around? I never seen footage or him just heard the stories.

No he died a year ago almost to the day 31/10/10 , book out about him if you like that type of thing.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cut-Above-Rest- ... 190443245X

[nfc90210]

If you read any of the unlicensed stuff, Cliff Fields stand out for his skill and results. He Ko'd Lenny McClean twice I think.

His pro record is as follows:

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

Does anyone know about him as a pro? I see he got stopped twice by Ref Billy Aird; but apparently was untouchable as an unlicensed fighter.... Are unlicensed fighters just uncompetitive with pros? On the other other hand Roy Shaw beat world class Ron Standner....

I can't believe that unlicensed/pro fighters can stand with pro boxers but who knows

According to Roy Shaws book he was lucky to get the win against Stander due to a broken rib suffered by Ron in training.

I read it over 10th yrs ago but I got the strong impression from the book that Ron Stander with a broken rib was still the hardest man Roy faced.

It's also about ten years or so since I read Roy Shaw's book. Shaw does say that Stander was by far the hardest guy he faced and that had he been healthy then he would have beaten him. As far as I recall, Stander didn't train very hard for the fight and then not that long before it fell over and broke his rib doing a Muhammed Ali impersonation while, I think and don't quote me on this, working the heavy bag.

[nfc90210]

some of these hard nuts just arent cut out for the pros,either mentally or athletically. they love a fight but if some1 boxes them and fiddles them about to pick up points they tend to switch off. Easy to frustrate, thats what i reckon. easy to outbox but not to actually put away if that makes sense.

saying that, i think a lot of them get a few wins and live off their reputation for years and years. For instance, if youve seen that documentary Knuckle, they r all "king of the gypsys" or "the best fighting man in the country" but they actually only ever face people within their own little community. Its like fighting the same four people every month and proclaiming yourself unbeatable.

Most come badly unstuck if they try their hand with professional boxing. Smoking Bert Cooper's fight with Joe Savage is a good example. Savage went into the ring with a reputation as an unbeaten streetfighter and claimed scores of unlicensed wins. Against Cooper he looked silly: lumbering and clueless. I think Savage got KO'd in about a minute. Mind you, a pro debut against Bert Cooper was ambitious to say the least...

It's not the best quality, but the Cooper/Savage fight is up on You Tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhH--zvzUns

Does anyone know what year the Cooper/Savage fight took place in?

[jonp]

Watching the corner man in the savage cooper fight was amusing.Shadowboxing with the fighter jumped back in when they touched glovesthinking he was missing something then just looked froze atthe finish and let someone else get in when he was walloped !

[Datsue]

Does anyone know what year the Cooper/Savage fight took place in?

About fifteen years ago I think. Cooper was fat, shot to fvck & hitting the pipe & still went through him like a dose of salts.

[Darcy Delaney]

If you read any of the unlicensed stuff, Cliff Fields stand out for his skill and results. He Ko'd Lenny McClean twice I think.

His pro record is as follows:

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

Does anyone know about him as a pro? I see he got stopped twice by Ref Billy Aird; but apparently was untouchable as an unlicensed fighter.... Are unlicensed fighters just uncompetitive with pros? On the other other hand Roy Shaw beat world class Ron Standner....

I can't believe that unlicensed/pro fighters can stand with pro boxers but who knows

According to Roy Shaws book he was lucky to get the win against Stander due to a broken rib suffered by Ron in training.

I read it over 10th yrs ago but I got the strong impression from the book that Ron Stander with a broken rib was still the hardest man Roy faced.

It's also about ten years or so since I read Roy Shaw's book. Shaw does say that Stander was by far the hardest guy he faced and that had he been healthy then he would have beaten him. As far as I recall, Stander didn't train very hard for the fight and then not that long before it fell over and broke his rib doing a Muhammed Ali impersonation while, I think and don't quote me on this, working the heavy bag.

the main reason shaw one that fight was they had stander out on the piss every night before the fight he had hang over going into the ring

[Cyclops]

According to Roy Shaws book he was lucky to get the win against Stander due to a broken rib suffered by Ron in training.

I read it over 10th yrs ago but I got the strong impression from the book that Ron Stander with a broken rib was still the hardest man Roy faced.

It's also about ten years or so since I read Roy Shaw's book. Shaw does say that Stander was by far the hardest guy he faced and that had he been healthy then he would have beaten him. As far as I recall, Stander didn't train very hard for the fight and then not that long before it fell over and broke his rib doing a Muhammed Ali impersonation while, I think and don't quote me on this, working the heavy bag.

the main reason shaw one that fight was they had stander out on the piss every night before the fight he had hang over going into the ring

I read Bob Mee's book about heavyweights and it has a section on Stander where it basically says he saw out the last years of his career totally shot, not training, fighting bums and losing. I remembered him from reading the Shaw book when I was a teenager and I recall that the Shaw fight isn't on his record on Boxrec, but I would imagine the Shaw fight came during this period. Roy Shaw and all the like lived off reputations as ferociously violent bullies and were matched very well against tomato cans in their unlicensed fights. Their 'autobiographies' are no doubt very self serving and leave out or play down all the times they terrorized innocent people and ruined lives. It annoys me that people read those books and believe every word, lionizing the criminals of the past because they wore suits and didn't grass. The whole reason people like Shaw and the Krays were at the top of the criminal tree at the time is because they were nutters who were more violent than everybody else and so people didn't mess. The criminals of today just followed that blueprint and became increasingly ruthless.

Lenny McClean said in his book that he never got knocked down, but he got KO'd by Fields twice I think, got beaten by a bloke called Johnny Waldren and also got done on points by another fella, and was stopped by Shaw in the first fight.

As for Shaw being competitive as a heavyweight, he's 5'8" and said himself he was just a blown up middleweight. I believe he was a decent amatuer before he got involved in the robberies and the violence. I used to read those books but now they make me sick. These blokes shouldn't be looked up to.

As for Fields himself apparently he was a good fighter but kept on getting cut, and that's why he couldn't get a license. He was an early allegedly fighter and there's some footage of him just chatting and stuff on youtube, with some of a young Fwank bigging him up. A proper evil looking bloke with loads of scar tissue around his eyes, so no wonder he got cut. Also I read somewhere he lost an eye in a streetfight when he was older and ended up an alcoholic. Allegedly also promoted McClean early on and was related to him somehow, although I read an interview with Fwank where he didn't have much good to say about Lenny, called him a bully and said he lost a lot of fights.

[Coco]

I think McCleans book had a lot of poetic license!!
Snatch was loosely based on Johnny Waldens fight with McClean where he was not supposed to win. He had the Bowers brothers in his corner and they had to lock themselves in the changing room after the fight!
I think Shaw's book was far more realistic, he had said what state Stander was in, even though he lied about winning 10 pro fights on the bounce before going to Jail, when in fact it was just the one.
My Dads mate knew both McClean and Shaw, he didn't have much good to say about McClean, apparently he was a real bully but he said Shaw was a good guy and a genuine hard case.

[Cyclops]

I think McCleans book had a lot of poetic license!!
Snatch was loosely based on Johnny Waldens fight with McClean where he was not supposed to win. He had the Bowers brothers in his corner and they had to lock themselves in the changing room after the fight!
I think Shaw's book was far more realistic, he had said what state Stander was in, even though he lied about winning 10 pro fights on the bounce before going to Jail, when in fact it was just the one.
My Dads mate knew both McClean and Shaw, he didn't have much good to say about McClean, apparently he was a real bully but he said Shaw was a good guy and a genuine hard case.

To be fair to Mr. Shaw (who even at his advanced age could probably cause me some serious damage) I would never question his credentials as a serious hard case. He certainly did spend many years in prison and was nutted off to Broadmoor was a reason: because he was extremely violent and aggressive and uncontrollable in the normal prison system. Definitely a lot of 'serious' people still talk about him in a 'serious' tone. However, I don't know what your old man's mate's definition of a good guy is! I seem to remember, after he got out of prison, he goes to his ex misses flat (who had divorced him while he was away) finds her with another geezer and launches the bloke over the balcony. Then goes on to say it was a shame he didn't die.

I dunno about you but if my horrible, violent wife ends up with an 18 for armed robbery and spends a good chunk of that in Broadmoor, I'm getting divorced and finding myself a nice new bird too! If said nutter bird gets out without me knowing, comes over to my flat and throws the new misses off the balcony, do you think she's a 'good girl' or do you think she's a f*cking evil witch that needs to be bumped back to Broadmoor? I could pull up a load of stuff he says he did in his book that illustrates what an evil bastard he is, and how he almost never ever takes responsibility for anything: it's always some one else's fault. Which is a classic psychopathic trait by the way. And Shaw has been diagnosed as a psychopath in Broadmoor. Another classic psychopathic trait (and I have worked with and spent time with many) is lying. So whether he's been mis-diagnosed or not, I'd take anything in that book with a pinch of salt. It IS written by the moronic Kate Kray, though, and not Roy himself who to be fair probably sat down and told her some stories which she typed up and bunged off to the publisher. It's a fascinating story, his life, but that book is extremely badly written. He should've got a proper writer to do it instead of some thick gold digging fantasist who married a homosexual schizophrenic murderer while he was in Broadmoor (for life with no chance of release) and has lived off his name ever since.

I also remember watching some documentary about Shaw years ago where they interviewed his daughter who, with haunted eyes, recounted seeing the blood as a child after said balcony incident and saying that the other fella had been a "nice" man. She also said that her dad was the only man she'd ever been frightened of but "I'm not frightened of him any more."

Who's read the Cliff Field's book anyway? Is it a straight up book about his career as a boxer, or is it another gangster memoir?

Note: interesting about the Snatch thing. Never heard that before. Surprised the pretentious plastic cockney posh boy gangster fantasist Guy Richtoy had actually done some proper research.

[Final round]

McClean, apparently he was a real bully

Lenny's cousin Allegedly holds this belief too.. I knew someone from Hoxton lived there all his life in his mid-sixties knew Mclean said he could be very funny at times but not a nice person. Which came as no surprise.

[Punchy Joe]

Didn't Johnny Waldron knock out Lenny McLean twice, both in the first round. McLean Didn't mention that in his book

[Tomasino]

I think McCleans book had a lot of poetic license!!
Snatch was loosely based on Johnny Waldens fight with McClean where he was not supposed to win. He had the Bowers brothers in his corner and they had to lock themselves in the changing room after the fight!
I think Shaw's book was far more realistic, he had said what state Stander was in, even though he lied about winning 10 pro fights on the bounce before going to Jail, when in fact it was just the one.
My Dads mate knew both McClean and Shaw, he didn't have much good to say about McClean, apparently he was a real bully but he said Shaw was a good guy and a genuine hard case.

To be fair to Mr. Shaw (who even at his advanced age could probably cause me some serious damage) I would never question his credentials as a serious hard case. He certainly did spend many years in prison and was nutted off to Broadmoor was a reason: because he was extremely violent and aggressive and uncontrollable in the normal prison system. Definitely a lot of 'serious' people still talk about him in a 'serious' tone. However, I don't know what your old man's mate's definition of a good guy is! I seem to remember, after he got out of prison, he goes to his ex misses flat (who had divorced him while he was away) finds her with another geezer and launches the bloke over the balcony. Then goes on to say it was a shame he didn't die.

I dunno about you but if my horrible, violent wife ends up with an 18 for armed robbery and spends a good chunk of that in Broadmoor, I'm getting divorced and finding myself a nice new bird too! If said nutter bird gets out without me knowing, comes over to my flat and throws the new misses off the balcony, do you think she's a 'good girl' or do you think she's a f*cking evil witch that needs to be bumped back to Broadmoor? I could pull up a load of stuff he says he did in his book that illustrates what an evil bastard he is, and how he almost never ever takes responsibility for anything: it's always some one else's fault. Which is a classic psychopathic trait by the way. And Shaw has been diagnosed as a psychopath in Broadmoor. Another classic psychopathic trait (and I have worked with and spent time with many) is lying. So whether he's been mis-diagnosed or not, I'd take anything in that book with a pinch of salt. It IS written by the moronic Kate Kray, though, and not Roy himself who to be fair probably sat down and told her some stories which she typed up and bunged off to the publisher. It's a fascinating story, his life, but that book is extremely badly written. He should've got a proper writer to do it instead of some thick gold digging fantasist who married a homosexual schizophrenic murderer while he was in Broadmoor (for life with no chance of release) and has lived off his name ever since.

I also remember watching some documentary about Shaw years ago where they interviewed his daughter who, with haunted eyes, recounted seeing the blood as a child after said balcony incident and saying that the other fella had been a "nice" man. She also said that her dad was the only man she'd ever been frightened of but "I'm not frightened of him any more."

Who's read the Cliff Field's book anyway? Is it a straight up book about his career as a boxer, or is it another gangster memoir?

Note: interesting about the Snatch thing. Never heard that before. Surprised the pretentious plastic cockney posh boy gangster fantasist Guy Richtoy had actually done some proper research.

Good post and very true. Kate Kray is a foul wench indeed!

[Cyclops]

Something for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNn9SytKBP0

[Darcy Delaney]

Something for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNn9SytKBP0

thats columbo my old trainer lol

[johnnykayo]

i met lennie mclean a couple of times and he just seemed a bully to me,youve only gotta look at what former pro boxers done and that was to beat him,so it just goes to show the man had no skill in a boxing ring,perhaps on the cobbles. but johnny waldron beat him and cliffy fields,ive always said malcolm price from merthyr would of beat him as mal wasnt a bad heavyweight at all and he went on the unlicensed circuit,one of eddie thomas stable.

[Tommy Gunn13]

Nothing to do with Cliff Field,but Roy Shaw has been mentioned a bit on this thread,i read his book when i was locked up in 1999&thought he was a right hard case,but seen fights since which make his story seem like shit...That Kate Kray aint nothing but a fame hungry bitch either...

[Cyclops]

Something for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNn9SytKBP0

thats columbo my old trainer lol

The bloke dancing around the ring at the beginning? He doesn't look in great shape yet he gets mentioned as one of the best unlicensed fighters. Any stories?

[stevieb_8006]

i met lennie mclean a couple of times and he just seemed a bully to me,youve only gotta look at what former pro boxers done and that was to beat him,so it just goes to show the man had no skill in a boxing ring,perhaps on the cobbles. but johnny waldron beat him and cliffy fields,ive always said malcolm price from merthyr would of beat him as mal wasnt a bad heavyweight at all and he went on the unlicensed circuit,one of eddie thomas stable.

price wouldve battered them all. fearsome man. they are all insecure little bullies tho arent they? not that i'd tell 'em that. a fighter that never gets much of a mention is henry francis.