silkov wrote:The Graham of '85-'87 wouldn't have been hit by that punch... against Jackson Graham was slipping/slowing down and his style had been all messed up by 'kiss of death' Barney Eastwood who had tried to make Graham a more aggressive and come forward fighter....
Good lad. Now lend grimm your glasses and see if he can spot that.
silkov wrote:The Graham of '85-'87 wouldn't have been hit by that punch... against Jackson Graham was slipping/slowing down and his style had been all messed up by 'kiss of death' Barney Eastwood who had tried to make Graham a more aggressive and come forward fighter....
Good lad. Now lend grimm your glasses and see if he can spot that.
Aye, 8) but me thinks that ole Grimm could be doing with Binoculars rather than glasses!!!. .. or perhaps a telescope!!???.. ....
I have to say, to the guys who said Hagler was at or near his peak in 87, are just wrong. Look at Hagler vs Mugabi and Sugar Ray and then tape from 10 YEARS earlier and see the difference. Hagler's prime was the late 70s but he got his biggest fights late in his career.
The outcome of this fight. I agree with KO Joe . . .a close, controversial decision for either man. I don't see either man having the ability to blow out the other one (at that stage of their careers)
dempseyfire wrote:I have to say, to the guys who said Hagler was at or near his peak in 87, are just wrong. Look at Hagler vs Mugabi and Sugar Ray and then tape from 10 YEARS earlier and see the difference. Hagler's prime was the late 70s but he got his biggest fights late in his career.
The outcome of this fight. I agree with KO Joe . . .a close, controversial decision for either man. I don't see either man having the ability to blow out the other one (at that stage of their careers)
I think Hagler was at his peak around 1980 - 1983... if you watch any of his fights from this time period and then watch him vs Leonard or indeed Mugubi there is a clear difference in him... the speed, reflexes, mobilty are all greatly reduced. At the same time Graham was at his best around 86-87 and would be a srong bet to outbox Hagler imo.
The Graham who had 3 close matches with Kalambay and Mccallum (both good punchers themselves!) would not have been stopped or koed by Hagler unless Hagler was at his very peak and even then I see a peak Graham going the distance
Because I disagree with those who think Hagler never fought anybody?
Interesting...
Just joking!... . I never said Hagler never fought anybody though... but he didn't fight Graham and my point is that had the fight been made in 86-87 I see Graham winning!... ...how is that saying Hagler never fought anybody???
Grimm wrote:The only reason that you think Graham is a great boxer is because you guys are from England where he was probably greatly hyped.
Just like they did Frank Bruno.
The only reason you dismiss him so much is because you know nothing about him. Apart from the Jackson knockout you probably have never even seen him fight. Which sums you up perfectly..making your mouth about something you know nothing about.
Grimm wrote:The only reason that you think Graham is a great boxer is because you guys are from England where he was probably greatly hyped.
Just like they did Frank Bruno.
I doubt you have even watched the Jackson fight. The fact that you say that Hagler was near his peak in 87 shows how laughable your knowledge of the game is!... go away and learn something before you shoot your mouth off!...
Grimm wrote:The only reason that you think Graham is a great boxer is because you guys are from England where he was probably greatly hyped.:
I think the fact that Graham gave the mutch avoided McCallum all the trouble he could handle showes that Graham was World class. He was not a GREAT fighter but he could at times fight great, if you follow my logic.
Grimm wrote:Just like they did Frank Bruno.
To be honest that was more the general sports media that hyped Big Frank Bruno and not the UK Boxing press or 'hardcore' Boxing fan.
Grimm wrote:The only reason that you think Graham is a great boxer is because you guys are from England where he was probably greatly hyped.:
I think the fact that Graham gave the mutch avoided McCallum all the trouble he could handle showes that Graham was World class. He was not a GREAT fighter but he could at times fight great, if you follow my logic.
Grimm wrote:Just like they did Frank Bruno.
To be honest that was more the general sports media that hyped Big Frank Bruno and not the UK Boxing press or 'hardcore' Boxing fan.
Graham was a great talent who had he got better breaks and been handled better could well have been a world champion... perhaps even an outstanding champion. Pound for pound he was better than either Hamed or Nelson who both have had lengthy title reigns. Grahams close losses to Mccallum and Kalambay who were both outstanding proves Grahams class without a doubt!.
Bruno was a good fighter who tends to be underrated today... if he was active today he wouldn't have much trouble with the so called top American heavies of today who are quite simply pathetic.
Herol Grahm doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Hagler. As good as McCallum was he is not Hagler either. Hagler is, if not the greatest, one of the top 3 middleweights of all time.
Grimm wrote:The only reason that you think Graham is a great boxer is because you guys are from England where he was probably greatly hyped.
Just like they did Frank Bruno.
I doubt you have even watched the Jackson fight. The fact that you say that Hagler was near his peak in 87 shows how laughable your knowledge of the game is!... go away and learn something before you shoot your mouth off!...
Hey retard, when did I say Hagler was near his peak in 87?
Grimm wrote:The only reason that you think Graham is a great boxer is because you guys are from England where he was probably greatly hyped.:
I think the fact that Graham gave the mutch avoided McCallum all the trouble he could handle showes that Graham was World class. He was not a GREAT fighter but he could at times fight great, if you follow my logic.
Yeah, I understand exactly what you're saying but this is also my point, the arguments that are being made for Graham are all based on his loses.
Grimm wrote:The only reason that you think Graham is a great boxer is because you guys are from England where he was probably greatly hyped.:
I think the fact that Graham gave the mutch avoided McCallum all the trouble he could handle showes that Graham was World class. He was not a GREAT fighter but he could at times fight great, if you follow my logic.
Grimm wrote:Just like they did Frank Bruno.
To be honest that was more the general sports media that hyped Big Frank Bruno and not the UK Boxing press or 'hardcore' Boxing fan.
Graham was a great talent who had he got better breaks and been handled better could well have been a world champion... perhaps even an outstanding champion. Pound for pound he was better than either Hamed or Nelson who both have had lengthy title reigns. Grahams close losses to Mccallum and Kalambay who were both outstanding proves Grahams class without a doubt!.
So Graham losing proves his class?????? Yup it sure does. :lol:
Bruno was a good fighter who tends to be underrated today... if he was active today he wouldn't have much trouble with the so called top American heavies of today who are quite simply pathetic.
LMAO now I know that you're just plain biased towards british fighters.
Or maybe you just like Herol Graham because he was posing naked.
zslayton wrote:Herol Grahm doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Hagler. As good as McCallum was he is not Hagler either. Hagler is, if not the greatest, one of the top 3 middleweights of all time.
KOJOE90 wrote:
I think the fact that Graham gave the mutch avoided McCallum all the trouble he could handle showes that Graham was World class. He was not a GREAT fighter but he could at times fight great, if you follow my logic.
To be honest that was more the general sports media that hyped Big Frank Bruno and not the UK Boxing press or 'hardcore' Boxing fan.
Graham was a great talent who had he got better breaks and been handled better could well have been a world champion... perhaps even an outstanding champion. Pound for pound he was better than either Hamed or Nelson who both have had lengthy title reigns. Grahams close losses to Mccallum and Kalambay who were both outstanding proves Grahams class without a doubt!.
So Graham losing proves his class?????? Yup it sure does. :lol:
Bruno was a good fighter who tends to be underrated today... if he was active today he wouldn't have much trouble with the so called top American heavies of today who are quite simply pathetic.
LMAO now I know that you're just plain biased towards british fighters.
Or maybe you just like Herol Graham because he was posing naked.
The only retard here is you. You're really not worth replying to as you're brain is incapable of looking at any argument except your own... you really need to go back to school you fool!.
Also I notice you mentioning the naked Graham picture?... .. interesting as it was you who posted it on this site so you must have it on your PC!!! eh!!!..... ... I wonder why as its clear you know nothing about Herols boxing abilty????????........ .
Time for you to come out of the closet Grimm!!!...
silkov wrote:
So Graham losing proves his class?????? Yup it sure does. :lol:
LMAO now I know that you're just plain biased towards british fighters.
Or maybe you just like Herol Graham because he was posing naked.
The only retard here is you. You're really not worth replying to as you're brain is incapable of looking at any argument except your own... you really need to go back to school you fool!.
Also I notice you mentioning the naked Graham picture?... .. interesting as it was you who posted it on this site so you must have it on your PC!!! eh!!!..... ... I wonder why as its clear you know nothing about Herols boxing abilty????????........ .
Time for you to come out of the closet Grimm!!!...
You can't even put up an argument anymore, your whole post was off topic.
The only retard here is you. You're really not worth replying to as you're brain is incapable of looking at any argument except your own... you really need to go back to school you fool!.
Also I notice you mentioning the naked Graham picture?... .. interesting as it was you who posted it on this site so you must have it on your PC!!! eh!!!..... ... I wonder why as its clear you know nothing about Herols boxing abilty????????........ .
Time for you to come out of the closet Grimm!!!...
You can't even put up an argument anymore, your whole post was off topic.
You have nothing to say, just go home.[/quote]
You just got your ass kicked by Silkov in a fair argument Grimm and that is the best closing line you can come up with!
Leave alone the topics that you know nothing about. It's just a suggestion but you'll have a much better time of it.
Reading the ones he has posted here I can only think he has been a regular in `the current scene`, from what I read on the other sites `the current scene` has got very bad....... I can now see why
8)
