Pedroza vs. Pacquiao at Feather...

[Goodnight, Irene]

12 rds.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Nice fight, Manny hates the rough stuff and Pedroza was as rough as they come. Eusebio never dealt with that kind of size or speed, but I think he could have edged a decision with his inside work.

[Goodnight, Irene]

You got the Sanchez fight in mind regarding rough stuff, Saad?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You got the Sanchez fight in mind regarding rough stuff, Saad?

A bit, Pac is most vulnerable on the inside.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Has he had any more recent fights where rough housing has gotten to him youre thinking of? Sanchez was so long ago now, and hes improved in so many areas, but I dont recall anyone testing him in that regard in recent years?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

No, but any recent version of Pac wouldn't be fighting Pedroza.

[Goodnight, Irene]

No, but any recent version of Pac wouldn't be fighting Pedroza.

I suppose thats true as well.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

If they're fighting at Welter I'll take Pac by first round KO. His size would be an issue at feather too, but I usually ignore the difference in the weigh ins to try and remain someone sane during what is a tough enough task without trying to calculate the extra pounds.

[Ezzard]

Over 12 I'd go with Pac. Pedroza would have more of a chance over 15.

I definitely wouldn't make a bet on this one.

Pedroza was more versatile...now I'm talking myself into a different decision...

[Goodnight, Irene]

You got the Sanchez fight in mind regarding rough stuff, Saad?

A bit, Pac is most vulnerable on the inside.

Interesting you think him most vulnerable on the inside, yet I think youve said before hed definitely beat Chavez. You dont think he of all people could exploit that? I do think Pacquiao beats Chavez, incidentally, and Im thinking maybe he gets the better of Pedroza in a close fight.

[elmersalsa]

Pedroza would have lick him very good. Too much smarts. Too savvy for Manny. Pedroza wins on points.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You got the Sanchez fight in mind regarding rough stuff, Saad?

A bit, Pac is most vulnerable on the inside.

Interesting you think him most vulnerable on the inside, yet I think youve said before hed definitely beat Chavez. You dont think he of all people could exploit that? I do think Pacquiao beats Chavez, incidentally, and Im thinking maybe he gets the better of Pedroza in a close fight.

I missed this, fair question. I guess for me I see Pac having a ton of success tagging Chavez on the way in where I see Pedroza being a bit craftier in how he goes about it and being tougher to hit.

I also find Julio quite beatable at 130, that's his worst division to me.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Chavez worse at 130 than 147, or even 140? Really?

I also see Pacquiao having a lot of success, mind. Chavez's biggest weakness was speed, & it is arguably Pacquiao's greatest asset.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Not worse than 47, but definitely below 140. He was a beast there.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Maybe early-140, but I think he was at his lethal best around 130-135. Such an absurdly accurate puncher, and thats before you even take volume into account.

IMO, hed hurt Pacquiao, win, lose or draw.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

If he consistently was able to back manny to the ropes he would take him to task. As for 140 I thought he was great for the majority of his time there. He was solid at 30, but inexperienced and not as strong.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Has he had any more recent fights where rough housing has gotten to him youre thinking of? Sanchez was so long ago now, and hes improved in so many areas, but I dont recall anyone testing him in that regard in recent years?

The Morales fight featured a little rough stuff from both of them, it wasn't exactly all clean boxing. Barrera also fouled a bit in that second fight since he lacked the speed to catch Manny before he was in and all the way out.

Also Manny leaves himself wide open when he throws so if you can time it right and throw when he does, especially inside, you can bother him.

I think Pacquiao beats Pedroza though, I think he'd have been able to get through the rough spots and at least wear Pedroza down with all those heavy shots.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Chavez worse at 130 than 147, or even 140? Really?

I also see Pacquiao having a lot of success, mind. Chavez's biggest weakness was speed, & it is arguably Pacquiao's greatest asset.

He had very good timing and ability to roll and slip punches right into his own attack, and Manny's speed advantages usually become null when you have a guy who can time him, he's not as quick as Meldrick Taylor but he's just as likely to engage in a war, especially the more he gets hit. Manny isn't nearly the type of defensive fighter that Whitaker was, and only his brand of defensive speed really screwed Chavez up anywhere close to his prime, Camacho's snappy power speed mixed with running didn't help.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Neither Whitaker or Camacho went after Chavez with attack consistently in mind, though. Camacho ran and Whitaker, like Pacquiao, was just a freak.

To really go after Chavez with those long arms, blazing hands, brutal power and bizarre angles, to me, spells seven, maybe eight rounds for Pacquiao (Chavez had fine timing and unerring accuracy, but they would come to him too late matched against the above attributes). He is so much more complete a boxer than Taylor ever was.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Neither Whitaker or Camacho went after Chavez with attack consistently in mind, though. Camacho ran and Whitaker, like Pacquiao, was just a freak.

To really go after Chavez with those long arms, blazing hands, brutal power and bizarre angles, to me, spells seven, maybe eight rounds for Pacquiao (Chavez had fine timing and unerring accuracy, but they would come to him too late matched against the above attributes). He is so much more complete a boxer than Taylor ever was.

His being a more complete Boxer than Taylor would only help him if he fought a totally disciplined outside fight, I think Chavez would goad him into standing still or backing against the ropes depending on the specific circumstances of which punches land and where. Pacquiao looks like a supremely good Boxer against statues with no head movement, Chavez isn't giving him space to do his horrible rendition of an Ali shuffle he tries from time to time.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Taylor won no fewer than nine rounds from Chavez, WEAPON, and Taylor is a heavily-mythologised fighter. The ONLY attributes he shared with Pacquiao were handspeed and grit.

Taylor was unable to hurt Chavez, but kept him at bay for the wide majority of the fight. That weighs heavily with me. Pacquiao could hurt him and would not find him as difficult to hit as youre making out.

If you can find and drop Marquez four times, youre going to land a lot of punches against Chavez...and not Taylors shoe-shiners either. Chavez would have to contend with being hurt early and fairly significantly in any fight between 130-140. I think hed recover to win rounds, but not the bout.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Taylor won no fewer than nine rounds from Chavez, WEAPON, and Taylor is a heavily-mythologised fighter. The ONLY attributes he shared with Pacquiao were handspeed and grit.

Taylor was unable to hurt Chavez, but kept him at bay for the wide majority of the fight. That weighs heavily with me. Pacquiao could hurt him and would not find him as difficult to hit as youre making out.

If you can find and drop Marquez four times, youre going to land a lot of punches against Chavez...and not Taylors shoe-shiners either. Chavez would have to contend with being hurt early and fairly significantly in any fight between 130-140. I think hed recover to win rounds, but not the bout.

It's not about him being difficult to hit, Taylor had faster hands than Pacquiao and he hardly hurt him, buzzed him a bit yes but Chavez would be able to see Pac's punches at least as well as he saw Taylor's which takes something off them, he certainly wouldn't be standing straight up with his head on a pedestal like Manny's most recent opponents.

Marquez is a straight-up fighter who's been dropped by Katsidis and stunned by Juan Diaz, Pacquiao dropping him repeatedly isn't as special as you make out, even Barrera did it. Marquez' defensive ability is predicated more on timing than Chavez' and Julio had a better beard than Marquez.

Chavez was pounding Taylor's organs into dust that whole fight, he just wasn't getting as much credit as Taylor from the judges and commentators because his shots weren't immediately pretty and dazzling, they just crushed Meldrick from the inside-out.

I respect your opinion on this matter because you at least see it as competitive, I simply disagree with you on the outcome.

[Goodnight, Irene]

The Marquez who was dropped and rocked by Katsidis and Diaz respectively was not as potent as the one Pacquiao faced.

One thing which NEVER gets mentioned is Taylors restrictive knee injury, which conceivably cost him that fight. On either offense nor defense was he at all as nimble as Pacquiao.

I do think we have a healthy degree of common ground here too. Chavez would discover a way to hurt Pacquiao, even in what I expect would be a clear losing effort (7-5,or 7-4-1/8-4 sounds about right to me).

[King Carlos]

I had Taylor up something like 7-3-1 against Chavez going into the last round. His performance is blown out of proportion.

[Aftermath]

The Chavez that fought Edwin Rosario would deal with Pacquiao’s speed and power, take him apart and come out victorious. The Pacquiao that drew with Marquez and lost to Morales would lose a 15 round decision to Pedroza.