Who is actually the best European boxer?

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 02 Aug 2005, 06:18

This no P4P-list!!!!!!! Who is for you guys the boxer and why?

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 02 Aug 2005, 06:20

For me the top 2 are old man Nelson and Mormeck.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 02 Aug 2005, 06:24

Coconut wrote:For me the top 2 are old man Nelson and Mormeck.

On another forum I was able to bring 20 fighters in. Then I had Nelson of course. But I had to leave 10 boxers out...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Aug 2005, 06:26

Coconut wrote:For me the top 2 are old man Nelson and Mormeck.

Err, based on what exactly...?

Hatton just beat Tszyu, neither Nelson nor Mormeck have ever beaten anyone of that calibre.

J · Post by J » 02 Aug 2005, 06:30

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Coconut wrote:For me the top 2 are old man Nelson and Mormeck.
Err, based on what exactly...?

Hatton just beat Tszyu, neither Nelson nor Mormeck have ever beaten anyone of that calibre.

beat me to it but no surprise ther i guess on either count.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 02 Aug 2005, 06:33

Ricky Hatton gets my vote. Unbelievable workrate, solid chin and he has a good boxing brain, in the way he can tailor his style to his opponent (versatility, punch-picking).

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 02 Aug 2005, 06:34

Roman Karmazin?

even Robin Reid is worth a shout (if Marcus Beyer is), and so is Clinton Woods being the current IBF champion?

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 02 Aug 2005, 06:43

Loftgroov wrote:Roman Karmazin?

Very Good shout

J · Post by J » 02 Aug 2005, 06:47

Chambers2 wrote:
Loftgroov wrote:Roman Karmazin?

Very Good shout

chambers for one horrible moment io thought you were going to say Audley.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Aug 2005, 06:47

Again, a victory over Ouma is impressive, but Ouma wasn't a proven commodity.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 02 Aug 2005, 06:52

J wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:
Loftgroov wrote:Roman Karmazin?

Very Good shout
chambers for one horrible moment io thought you were going to say Audley.

I thought the same

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 02 Aug 2005, 06:54

BubiScholz wrote:
J wrote:
Chambers2 wrote: Very Good shout
chambers for one horrible moment io thought you were going to say Audley.
I thought the same

Not yet.......maybe in 12 months

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 02 Aug 2005, 07:10

J wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Coconut wrote:For me the top 2 are old man Nelson and Mormeck.
Err, based on what exactly...?

Hatton just beat Tszyu, neither Nelson nor Mormeck have ever beaten anyone of that calibre.
beat me to it but no surprise ther i guess on either count.

As in all these things, this is based on impression. There's nothing mathematical in this.

I was also using the word 'boxer' as a bit of a tight definition there. Hatton's got skills but Nelson's are certainly a class above him in this department.

J · Post by J » 02 Aug 2005, 07:20

depends what you term skills, arent work rate, aggression and heart also skills?

you can be the silkiest boxer in the world but if you aint got an element of those above as well you arent as skilled in my book.

Witter has better boxing skills than hatton but ishe more skilled all round?
No. not in my book.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 02 Aug 2005, 07:56

We should not forget that normally Tszyu would have held more belts. He was the ruler of the division, is an all time great, and Ricky beat him by his means. You don´t get a prize in boxing for "nice technique and style". Hatton is one of the best, maybe the best European boxer and a top 5 worldwide. And he boxes in the best division. He has the chance, after beating 3 more top guys in the division, to become the best boxer out of the isle.

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 02 Aug 2005, 08:03

Right, you've persuaded me. Hatton it is then.

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 02 Aug 2005, 08:24

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Again, a victory over Ouma is impressive, but Ouma wasn't a proven commodity.

Well come on... victories over Ouma and Holmes, and BEING the current IBF Light Middleweight world champion I think deserves him being listed as one of the top 10 europeans...for "consideration" as the best?

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 02 Aug 2005, 08:45

Loftgroov wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Again, a victory over Ouma is impressive, but Ouma wasn't a proven commodity.
Well come on... victories over Ouma and Holmes, and BEING the current IBF Light Middleweight world champion I think deserves him being listed as one of the top 10 europeans...for "consideration" as the best?

these were my thoughts, too. In another forum it is a top 20 list but I still left him. I only have 2 Europeans in Heavy and Super Midle, our best divisions, and then the champions of the other divisions, I had to leave Sidorenko, Nelson, Tiozzo, Adamek, Woods and Kessler out. But anyway I espected a clear win of Ricky in this forum.....

In the german forum is Mormeck (6 votes) ahead of Wladi!!!!!(4 votes), Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton and Vitali (all 3 votes). Completely different....Knowing that there are some Wladi-Hypers.

J · Post by J » 02 Aug 2005, 08:46

VLAD SHOULDNT EVEN BE IN THERE.

how can you vote for vlad over vitali, one is champion (all be it a lazy inactive one) the other one keeps eating canvass like a 2 year old with crayons?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Aug 2005, 08:46

Keith Holmes was coming out of retirement after campaigning at middleweight.

Being a beltholder doesn't mean much these days as we all know. Tszyu should have been the undisputed champ, but more than that, he was regarded as the best man in the division.

Karmazin is a class act, and I favoured him to beat Ouma, and yes he deserves consideration, but no way has he earned the rep as the best boxer in Europe.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 02 Aug 2005, 08:48

J wrote:VLAD SHOULDNT EVEN BE IN THERE.

yes, it was my fault to bring him in.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Aug 2005, 08:49

Coconut wrote:
J wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote: Err, based on what exactly...?

Hatton just beat Tszyu, neither Nelson nor Mormeck have ever beaten anyone of that calibre.
beat me to it but no surprise ther i guess on either count.
As in all these things, this is based on impression. There's nothing mathematical in this.

I was also using the word 'boxer' as a bit of a tight definition there. Hatton's got skills but Nelson's are certainly a class above him in this department.

Really? Doesn't offensive prowess count as a skill then. Nelson might be a defensive genius, but in terms of offence, he is nowhere near as effective as Hatton, and his level of competition has been pretty dire recently.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 02 Aug 2005, 08:51

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Keith Holmes was coming out of retirement after campaigning at middleweight.

Being a beltholder doesn't mean much these days as we all know. Tszyu should have been the undisputed champ, but more than that, he was regarded as the best man in the division.

Karmazin is a class act, and I favoured him to beat Ouma, and yes he deserves consideration, but no way has he earned the rep as the best boxer in Europe.

I didn´t say that, but top 10.

So let´s make or own boxrec top ten. Everybody can post his own top ten here. in a week a put them together and make top ten of all users participated.

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 02 Aug 2005, 09:05

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Coconut wrote:
J wrote: beat me to it but no surprise ther i guess on either count.
As in all these things, this is based on impression. There's nothing mathematical in this.

I was also using the word 'boxer' as a bit of a tight definition there. Hatton's got skills but Nelson's are certainly a class above him in this department.
Really? Doesn't offensive prowess count as a skill then. Nelson might be a defensive genius, but in terms of offence, he is nowhere near as effective as Hatton, and his level of competition has been pretty dire recently.

James, see above. I was in a pro-Nelson fit of insanity

Coconut wrote:Right, you've persuaded me. Hatton it is then.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 02 Aug 2005, 09:19

If your looking at skill level then I would say Hatton.

If your looking at P4P basis I would say Hatton followed by Mormeck.

Witter might deserve a call, his win of N'dou is as good as some in that list - no way he deserves to win it but might make the top ten.

Who is actually the best European boxer?

Best European boxer

Who is actually the best European boxer?