How disillusioned are you with boxing?

[allahsnackbar]

Seems like every time there is a fight on there is some kind of controversy with the officiating or refereeing.

Fury vs Pajkic was a fantastic up and down fight - RUINED by a bad stoppage
Pac vs JMM was an intriguing fight and great performance - RUINED by bad judging
Colin Lynes vs Lee Purdy - OUTRAGEOUS scorecard from Ian John Lewis
Kell Brooks stupid stoppage win over Jackiewicz
Hayes non effort vs Wlad and the little toe excuse in the ring
Audleys non effort vs Haye
Remember Cox vs Sai? Dallas vs Page? Ian John Lewis in that ridiculous prizefighter joke of a scorecard?
Dave Parris giving Bellew vs Clev to Clev by 5 rounds
McDermott getting robbed vs Fury
Shinny Bayaar getting robbed vs Sexton

The list goes on and on, these are just off the top of my head and each time I have been left with a really bad taste in the mouth and left pondering why I even watch the sport.

For the first time, I am considering scaling down my viewing of boxing because it is just leaving a bad taste in the mouth every time I watch.

I certainly wouldn't be paying for the privalidge of watching any fights in the future.

[exittored]

Seems like every time there is a fight on there is some kind of controversy with the officiating or refereeing.

Fury vs Pajkic was a fantastic up and down fight - RUINED by a bad stoppage
Pac vs JMM was an intriguing fight and great performance - RUINED by bad judging
Colin Lynes vs Lee Purdy - OUTRAGEOUS scorecard from Ian John Lewis
Kell Brooks stupid stoppage win over Jackiewicz
Hayes non effort vs Wlad and the little toe excuse in the ring
Audleys non effort vs Haye
Remember Cox vs Sai? Dallas vs Page? Ian John Lewis in that ridiculous prizefighter joke of a scorecard?
Dave Parris giving Bellew vs Clev to Clev by 5 rounds
McDermott getting robbed vs Fury
Shinny Bayaar getting robbed vs Sexton

The list goes on and on, these are just off the top of my head and each time I have been left with a really bad taste in the mouth and left pondering why I even watch the sport.

For the first time, I am considering scaling down my viewing of boxing because it is just leaving a bad taste in the mouth every time I watch.

I certainly wouldn't be paying for the privalidge of watching any fights in the future.

Wow you're a half empty sort of bloke arn't you.

Boxing will always have it's politics and controversies as scoring a fight is so subjective plus fights that get hyped to hell usually never live up to their billing.

See the positives though, just last week we saw a fantastic fight between Kirkland and Angulo, Fury vs Pakjic was a entertaining brawl and if you missed the Alvarado-Prescott fight on the Pac undercard then you missed a sensational come back from behind victory.

[Quixall]

I will still follow boxing but not as avidly as i have been of late............

Last night left a sour taste in my mouth and as you say a lot of different things have happenned to dilute my appetite for boxing. It's too expensive to watch, the quality is decreasing year on year, too many organisations, too many silly belt titles, miss matched fights, fights that people want to see not happenning, awful ranking systems and too much hype and bullshit.

Then you can add your list...................

Boxing is a sport on the decline and people like Arum et al are the leaches sucking the life out of it !!

[tonyevs]

The more you get to know about boxing - the less you really like it.

I once asked an old friend that I had not seen since the days we used to box, did he still follow the boxing. He said he no longer payed much attention to the pro game, because the best rarely fight the best unlike in amateur side ... at first I thought he was showing signs of pugilistic-dementia .. but taking a closer look .. he was making a very valid point.

Boxing is killing itself. An example is the Chris Eubank jr. contest lastnight ... its the norm to feed a prospect an easy diet of tomato cans to knock over ... I know why this is. But in the amateurs, a guy will fight a guy his same weight and amount of experience .. as he progresses .. he fights guys the same weight, with similar records ... as he progresses even further .. he tests himself against the top guys.
Why can`t the pro side do the same?
Instead we have the prospect in against a smaller guy, or a guy with a list of losses with a draw or win here or there.
For me - this isn`t what boxing is about.

[Syntax Error]

There are a few things that have narked me about in recent times, namely:-

1) Floyd Mayweather running off his mouth about Pacquiao, but fighting once every 2 years or so & making excuses not to fight the man he keeps running off his mouth about.

2) David Haye going from the saviour of the HW division to someone who is only purely motivated by money.

3) The lack of any real quality & in excitement in the HW division.

All said and done, these are only a few things & TBH, they are not quite enough to make me totally disillusioned with the sport, although the do remove some of the lustre.

[Adamj1987]

Very with big matches I pay more attention to the smaller bouts where the lowsy stoppages and scores happen. Also not as many 1 sided beat downs

[greenyox3]

I think some fans just need to stop moaning. Boxing isn't perfect but show me a sport that is. Should we all follow football instead, where some of them earn >£200k a week yet demand more? Or maybe rugby, where they gauge each other's eyes out or use fake blood to gain an advantage? As for Cricket...spot-fix, anyone?

(btw I like all of those sports)

Personally I'm enjoying the British domestic scene at the moment, we have a good group of fighters on the world scene as well, and the big fights are happening.

[milpool]

Seems like every time there is a fight on there is some kind of controversy with the officiating or refereeing.

Fury vs Pajkic was a fantastic up and down fight - RUINED by a bad stoppage
Pac vs JMM was an intriguing fight and great performance - RUINED by bad judging
Colin Lynes vs Lee Purdy - OUTRAGEOUS scorecard from Ian John Lewis
Kell Brooks stupid stoppage win over Jackiewicz
Hayes non effort vs Wlad and the little toe excuse in the ring
Audleys non effort vs Haye
Remember Cox vs Sai? Dallas vs Page? Ian John Lewis in that ridiculous prizefighter joke of a scorecard?
Dave Parris giving Bellew vs Clev to Clev by 5 rounds
McDermott getting robbed vs Fury
Shinny Bayaar getting robbed vs Sexton

The list goes on and on, these are just off the top of my head and each time I have been left with a really bad taste in the mouth and left pondering why I even watch the sport.

For the first time, I am considering scaling down my viewing of boxing because it is just leaving a bad taste in the mouth every time I watch.

I certainly wouldn't be paying for the privalidge of watching any fights in the future.

This is boxing, this is why we love it 8)

[allahsnackbar]

I tend to have an uncomfortable feeling now when I am sitting down to watch a fight because im just anticipating something bad happening.

Last night was a big fight between Pac and JMM and usually I would be really up for such a fight and getting a real buzz but I noticed that it wasn't as much fun for me as usual.

There will always be good fights to watch though. Cotto vs Margarito coming up, Froch vs Ward.

Agbeko and Mares are having a rematch too. That was one fight that was hard to watch especially at the point where Agbeko gets a hard low blow and the ref starts counting. The look Agbeko gives him as he was going back to fight Mares was heartbreaking. Then the ref justifying his job at the end left a bad taste.

I think I'm going to see if I can force myself to read about the result first and then download the fight after if it is not going to depress me! Takes away from the experience somewhat but I actually think I am done with watching every fight every week.

Also cant blame people for going off PPV.

Haye vs Harrison
Haye vs Wlad
Pac vs JMM
Khan vs Judah
etc

all for 15 quid.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

Its all a bit grim these days, but i don't think that has anything to do with poor decisions, as others have pointed out, that's been going on for years.


The real issue is that boxing promoters in 2011 are putting on a product that very few people want to see.

[Deserter]

I am a bit like Quixall that I don't really the follow as much as I used to, I wouldn't say I follow from a far but nothing like before. I have been hooked on the sport since Haglar-Hearns and have gone through various highs / lows but this is an all time low. I tend to look at the sport more as business these days and felt JMM not getting the nod was more to do with money than sport. The bad decisions, poor match making, mis-matches, fighters avoiding each other, too many titles, protected fighters, PPV and premature home town stoppages seem to be getting worse.

x2. Been following since McGuigan vs Laporte days and I'm at an all-time low.

Greenyox3, sorry, but you're talking utter nonsense - why should we have to turn a blind eye to the incidents that are regularly damaging the sport? The 'moaning' that's happening is because we love the sport and it's heart-breaking seeing it decline due to self-inflicted injuries.
Your comparison to other sports simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny either - incidents like the one you reference in rugby are notable by their unusual nature, whereas in boxing, home-town decisions, mis-matches etc are all too frequently the norm.

[Jeff Thomas]

The type of people leading the way in boxing promotion right now don't seem to be people interested in changing the way things are done. That said there's plenty to be positive about. UK boxing is just having a bit of a top end slump and has been for about 10 years. It will change- it always does

[JC]

I think a lot of the frustration some seem to be feeling comes front the fact that recently a lot of the really big fights have wound up disappointing in one way or another (Wlad/Haye, Mayweather/Ortiz, Pac/Mosely, Dawson/Hopkins, )

I wonder if this might be partly due to the fact that most of the marquee names that the sport uses to sell itself are in their mid-30s or later (May, Pac, Marquez, The Klitschkos, Hopkins, Martinez). Seems to make for the cagey flat sort of fights we've been seeing a lot of recently. Hopefully it's a bit of a transitional period and the likes of Bute, Ward, Khan and Gamboa can come through and really assert themselves in the next twelve months or so. Seems like there needs to be a bit more hunger at the very top.

[los2]

Seems like every time there is a fight on there is some kind of controversy with the officiating or refereeing.

Fury vs Pajkic was a fantastic up and down fight - RUINED by a bad stoppage
Pac vs JMM was an intriguing fight and great performance - RUINED by bad judging
Colin Lynes vs Lee Purdy - OUTRAGEOUS scorecard from Ian John Lewis
Kell Brooks stupid stoppage win over Jackiewicz
Hayes non effort vs Wlad and the little toe excuse in the ring
Audleys non effort vs Haye
Remember Cox vs Sai? Dallas vs Page? Ian John Lewis in that ridiculous prizefighter joke of a scorecard?
Dave Parris giving Bellew vs Clev to Clev by 5 rounds
McDermott getting robbed vs Fury
Shinny Bayaar getting robbed vs Sexton

The list goes on and on, these are just off the top of my head and each time I have been left with a really bad taste in the mouth and left pondering why I even watch the sport.

For the first time, I am considering scaling down my viewing of boxing because it is just leaving a bad taste in the mouth every time I watch.

I certainly wouldn't be paying for the privalidge of watching any fights in the future.

not to mention the glenn foot-ali shah debacle

[bripez]

But in the amateurs, a guy will fight a guy his same weight and amount of experience .. as he progresses .. he fights guys the same weight, with similar records ... as he progresses even further .. he tests himself against the top guys.

Why can`t the pro side do the same?

Do you follow much amateur boxing mate ? - you will see the same as in the pro's

-all kind of crazy decisions
-no right of appeal
-favouritism from officials
-boxers avoiding each other (the last few years have seen a move toward compliling and maintaining a good record like we see in the pro's)
-boxers on funding not entering ABA's
-no official criteria on how boxers get on funding / selected for England
-difficult to replace a boxer who is on funding, thereby potentially blocking talent
-not to mention the usual "gamesmanship" from coaches, clubs etc.
-influx of foreign boxers - difficult to determine age or experience (same with travellers)
-Sport run by unaccountable jobsworth types (amateur and pro) who are more concerned about staying on the gravy train

Just a few quick comments off the top of my head - I am sure there are lots more examples.

[bigjack]

There was a time i would get up/stay up all hours of the day and night to watch any fight,but now i don't really care that much,back in the day when i started following the sport in the early 80s,if a fighter lost he went right to the back of the world title contender pile,now they get straight back with a interim/regular/diamond/silver/super champ or whatever.Add this to poor stoppages/points decisions and poor efforts of some fighters and you have a sport in big decline.For gods sake Fury is supposed to be the british champ,could you imagine Frank Bruno turning up for a fight with a roll of fat around his belly,or getting dropped by a complete non puncher with very little technique or blaming his loss to witherspoon or lewis on a broken toe,i could go on but i think you get the picture.

[nh1]

What I found particularly disappointing immediately after the Pacquiao—Marquez scores were announced was the lack of incisive, critical questioning by HBO’s Max Kellerman. (I was watching via Primetime, so if there were more critical remarks after the Primetime coverage of the HBO feed ended, someone could make us aware.)
I have been pleasantly surprised by HBO’s people asking boxers and officials challenging questions of late, i.e. questioning Mayweather as to whether his win was tarnished or not (which it was); and criticising the Mares referee for seemingly disregarding repeated low blows.
Contrast that with the reception Manny and Bob Arum got…; an opportunity missed. Instead we got fawning on an embarrassing level. Nothing about Pacquiao’s awful performance, or the barmy scorecards.

[allahsnackbar]

What I found particularly disappointing immediately after the Pacquiao—Marquez scores were announced was the lack of incisive, critical questioning by HBO’s Max Kellerman. (I was watching via Primetime, so if there were more critical remarks after the Primetime coverage of the HBO feed ended, someone could make us aware.)
I have been pleasantly surprised by HBO’s people asking boxers and officials challenging questions of late, i.e. questioning Mayweather as to whether his win was tarnished or not (which it was); and criticising the Mares referee for seemingly disregarding repeated low blows.
Contrast that with the reception Manny and Bob Arum got…; an opportunity missed. Instead we got fawning on an embarrassing level. Nothing about Pacquiao’s awful performance, or the barmy scorecards.

that wasnt kellerman interviewing pac

it was mario lopez (A.C Slater). Lopez is employed by Arum so he was toeing the company line.

[tonyevs]

But in the amateurs, a guy will fight a guy his same weight and amount of experience .. as he progresses .. he fights guys the same weight, with similar records ... as he progresses even further .. he tests himself against the top guys.

Why can`t the pro side do the same?

Do you follow much amateur boxing mate ? - you will see the same as in the pro's

-all kind of crazy decisions
-no right of appeal
-favouritism from officials
-boxers avoiding each other (the last few years have seen a move toward compliling and maintaining a good record like we see in the pro's)
-boxers on funding not entering ABA's
-no official criteria on how boxers get on funding / selected for England
-difficult to replace a boxer who is on funding, thereby potentially blocking talent
-not to mention the usual "gamesmanship" from coaches, clubs etc.
-influx of foreign boxers - difficult to determine age or experience (same with travellers)
-Sport run by unaccountable jobsworth types (amateur and pro) who are more concerned about staying on the gravy train

Just a few quick comments off the top of my head - I am sure there are lots more examples.

No - I do not follow amateur boxing to be honest.
Such a shame if it is the way you say it is .. :(

[maltesecharlie]

As with the Fury fight, when a prospect from this country has he's opponent in trouble the referee jumps in way too early. Its no good for the fighter or the fans as I think it was turning into quite a good fight on Saturday. Opinions differ with scoring a fight but there is no excuses for Ian John Lewis' scorecard or Mcdermott getting robbed against Fury.

[NazNaci1]

Personally speaking, I can't say I am disillusioned with it. This sort of thing has been happening for years. The fact more fights are televised or available for people to watch (thanks to the internet) creates the illusion that this is something that has come about recently. It's not.

What has happened is, it has become more widespread with countries such as Germany, England, Italy even Denmark etc all getting in on the act. Bottom line is the Promoters are the paymasters and if one of their prospects is in a tough fight or losing clearly, in general, short of losing by KO, the opponent won't get the win.

It has never made business sense to give a win, not matter how valid, to the away fighter. Hence why some promoters have preferred the route of pitting their prospects in with the 'non puncher', 'coming up in weight' variant. If they can't knock you out, they aint going to win, no matter how well deserved it is. People might bitch, fans may moan but as far as the promoter is concerned, it's on to the next one.

Here in the UK, it has also become the 'done thing', something we struggle with because, as fans, we tend to call it as it is. If a guy lost, generally we can accept that and wish the winner good luck on a deserved win. We don't get that now, we get dodgy decisions, in favour of the prospect or premature stoppages when it wasn't necessary etc. Then again we have nothing at stake, so we can afford that impartiality. Promoters can't and that is the reality, unfortunately.

[Quixall]

Personally speaking, I can't say I am disillusioned with it. This sort of thing has been happening for years. The fact more fights are televised or available for people to watch (thanks to the internet) creates the illusion that this is something that has come about recently. It's not.

What has happened is, it has become more widespread with countries such as Germany, England, Italy even Denmark etc all getting in on the act. Bottom line is the Promoters are the paymasters and if one of their prospects is in a tough fight or losing clearly, in general, short of losing by KO, the opponent won't get the win.

It has never made business sense to give a win, not matter how valid, to the away fighter. Hence why some promoters have preferred the route of pitting their prospects in with the 'non puncher', 'coming up in weight' variant. If they can't knock you out, they aint going to win, no matter how well deserved it is. People might bitch, fans may moan but as far as the promoter is concerned, it's on to the next one.

Here in the UK, it has also become the 'done thing', something we struggle with because, as fans, we tend to call it as it is. If a guy lost, generally we can accept that and wish the winner good luck on a deserved win. We don't get that now, we get dodgy decisions, in favour of the prospect or premature stoppages when it wasn't necessary etc. Then again we have nothing at stake, so we can afford that impartiality. Promoters can't and that is the reality, unfortunately.

I agree with your sentiments and analysis, but fundamentally if people continually see a fighter clearly win a fight only to see the decision go against them, ultimately they wont be bothered to watch any fights and will walk away from the sport.

Now that WILL affect promoters

[nh1]

What I found particularly disappointing immediately after the Pacquiao—Marquez scores were announced was the lack of incisive, critical questioning by HBO’s Max Kellerman. (I was watching via Primetime, so if there were more critical remarks after the Primetime coverage of the HBO feed ended, someone could make us aware.)
I have been pleasantly surprised by HBO’s people asking boxers and officials challenging questions of late, i.e. questioning Mayweather as to whether his win was tarnished or not (which it was); and criticising the Mares referee for seemingly disregarding repeated low blows.
Contrast that with the reception Manny and Bob Arum got…; an opportunity missed. Instead we got fawning on an embarrassing level. Nothing about Pacquiao’s awful performance, or the barmy scorecards.

that wasnt kellerman interviewing pac

it was mario lopez (A.C Slater). Lopez is employed by Arum so he was toeing the company line.

OK, I stand corrected. But the overall point remains: subservience rather than outrage. Wrong to have someone as self-interested as that interviewing Arum, also.

[greenyox3]

I am a bit like Quixall that I don't really the follow as much as I used to, I wouldn't say I follow from a far but nothing like before. I have been hooked on the sport since Haglar-Hearns and have gone through various highs / lows but this is an all time low. I tend to look at the sport more as business these days and felt JMM not getting the nod was more to do with money than sport. The bad decisions, poor match making, mis-matches, fighters avoiding each other, too many titles, protected fighters, PPV and premature home town stoppages seem to be getting worse.

x2. Been following since McGuigan vs Laporte days and I'm at an all-time low.

Greenyox3, sorry, but you're talking utter nonsense - why should we have to turn a blind eye to the incidents that are regularly damaging the sport? The 'moaning' that's happening is because we love the sport and it's heart-breaking seeing it decline due to self-inflicted injuries.
Your comparison to other sports simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny either - incidents like the one you reference in rugby are notable by their unusual nature, whereas in boxing, home-town decisions, mis-matches etc are all too frequently the norm.

I'm not saying we should turn a blind eye to the wrongs in the sport. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't be under the illusion that boxing is the only sport that suffers from them.

I disagree that the examples I used are the notable exceptions; every week there seems to be a new scandal in football, and certainly every week an official makes a bad decision that effects the outcome of the game. Maybe the fake blood thing in rugby was a bad example, but rugby players often misbehave off the pitch and it generally goes unreported by the media (until this world cup), because it IS the norm. And allegations of corruption have dogged cricket for years.

My point is, I'm pretty sure the hardcore fans of these sports don't complain about the so-called decline of their game, like some boxing fans do, every time something bad happens. Boxing is, I believe, as popular as it's been for a long time (certainly in the UK) and is far from a dying sport.

[hurlock]

you look at grass roots level & they can hold the aba finals in york hall.it say's it all.

i love the sport & love talking about it but i dont watch most fights as the exciment aint there.