Joe Frazier interview

[montrealsuper]

Found this good interview with Joe Frazier. I mean, who doesn't love Joe Frazier, pure class, the toughness, true champ, how he got up every time from Foreman's power, how he battled Ali in Manila, how he defeated Ali in 1971, the first man to beat him. Joe Frazier was always pure class, such a class act, he never even had one single hater.

http://thebiofile.com/2011/11/biofile-with-joe-frazier/

[yancey]

[elmersalsa]

I always liked the great Joe Frazier. It was kind of unjust of how the great and beloved Muhammad Ali treated him with those insults. And even with those insults, he could have come to my dinner table any time. He was not a phony man. He was for real. A real person and a real champion and man. I will always miss him.

Thank you for the memories, Smokin' Joe. One of the true 50 greatest fighters, pound per pound of all-time and of course, an all-time top 10 heavyweight.

[BoxBuzz]

I honestly think that Ali NEVER realized until it was too late, that Joe was taking much of it personal. Ali was a showman, and a good man. Frazier was workman and a good man. You've met the sort of folks that really care about people, and would never besmirch another person even to get ahead? That's Joe in my opinion. He didn't get the humor, he was too sincere if there is such a thing. Ali never meant to be so hurtful..(again my opinion) but when he realized Joe wasn't gettin' it....I think he took the attitude...fornicate him if he can't take a joke. Ali would have probably have preferred to have a business partner that would wink and jack everyone up for the money. And that's when it went very bad between them. Frazier would simply never do such a thing. That doesn't make Joe overall the better man, but for me it does for at least that single point of order.

Joe was no "Barnum and Bailey Clown"......and he simply took an oath to himself that if he could beat this guy into being humble, that's exactly what he was going to do. And he did beat Ali, but Ali made the equally sincere decision that "I don't do humble even when I'm whupped".

And instead of that fight being the end of the story for Ali, That moment practically became the beginning of his story.

[raylawpc]

I honestly think that Ali NEVER realized until it was too late, that Joe was taking much of it personal. Ali was a showman, and a good man. Frazier was workman and a good man. You've met the sort of folks that really care about people, and would never besmirch another person even to get ahead? That's Joe in my opinion. He didn't get the humor, he was too sincere if there is such a thing. Ali never meant to be so hurtful..(again my opinion) but when he realized Joe wasn't gettin' it....I think he took the attitude...eff him if he can't take a joke. Ali would have probably have preferred to have a business partner that would wink and jack everyone up for the money. And that's when it went very bad between them. Frazier would simply never do such a thing. That doesn't make Joe overall the better man, but for me it does for at least that single point of order.

Joe was no "Barnum and Bailey Clown"......and he simply took an oath to himself that if he could beat this guy into being humble, that's exactly what he was going to do. And he did beat Ali, but Ali made the equally sincere decision that "I don't do humble even when I'm whupped".

And instead of that fight being the end of the story for Ali, That moment practically became the beginning of his story.

Personally, I believe and have always believed that Ali had a nasty streak. He enjoyed every word he spoke, and used "hyping the gate" as an excuse to be nasty. That's Ali in my opinion. Joe recognized that Ali wasn't just hyping the gate. And that's why it look Joe so long to forgive Ali - if he ever did.

[yancey]

I honestly think that Ali NEVER realized until it was too late, that Joe was taking much of it personal. Ali was a showman, and a good man. Frazier was workman and a good man. You've met the sort of folks that really care about people, and would never besmirch another person even to get ahead? That's Joe in my opinion. He didn't get the humor, he was too sincere if there is such a thing. Ali never meant to be so hurtful..(again my opinion) but when he realized Joe wasn't gettin' it....I think he took the attitude...eff him if he can't take a joke. Ali would have probably have preferred to have a business partner that would wink and jack everyone up for the money. And that's when it went very bad between them. Frazier would simply never do such a thing. That doesn't make Joe overall the better man, but for me it does for at least that single point of order.

Joe was no "Barnum and Bailey Clown"......and he simply took an oath to himself that if he could beat this guy into being humble, that's exactly what he was going to do. And he did beat Ali, but Ali made the equally sincere decision that "I don't do humble even when I'm whupped".

And instead of that fight being the end of the story for Ali, That moment practically became the beginning of his story.

Personally, I believe and have always believed that Ali had a nasty streak. He enjoyed every word he spoke, and used "hyping the gate" as an excuse to be nasty. That's Ali in my opinion. Joe recognized that Ali wasn't just hyping the gate. And that's why it look Joe so long to forgive Ali - if he ever did.

I'm in complete agreement with this latter viewpoint.

It was disgraceful how Ali treated a good man like Joe Frazier back in those days.

[yancey]

I always liked the great Joe Frazier. It was kind of unjust of how the great and beloved Muhammad Ali treated him with those insults. And even with those insults, he could have come to my dinner table any time. He was not a phony man. He was for real. A real person and a real champion and man. I will always miss him.

Thank you for the memories, Smokin' Joe. One of the true 50 greatest fighters, pound per pound of all-time and of course, an all-time top 10 heavyweight.

Well said.

A little sad tonight that I never got to shake Joe's hand.

[BoxBuzz]

I honestly think that Ali NEVER realized until it was too late, that Joe was taking much of it personal. Ali was a showman, and a good man. Frazier was workman and a good man. You've met the sort of folks that really care about people, and would never besmirch another person even to get ahead? That's Joe in my opinion. He didn't get the humor, he was too sincere if there is such a thing. Ali never meant to be so hurtful..(again my opinion) but when he realized Joe wasn't gettin' it....I think he took the attitude...eff him if he can't take a joke. Ali would have probably have preferred to have a business partner that would wink and jack everyone up for the money. And that's when it went very bad between them. Frazier would simply never do such a thing. That doesn't make Joe overall the better man, but for me it does for at least that single point of order.

Joe was no "Barnum and Bailey Clown"......and he simply took an oath to himself that if he could beat this guy into being humble, that's exactly what he was going to do. And he did beat Ali, but Ali made the equally sincere decision that "I don't do humble even when I'm whupped".

And instead of that fight being the end of the story for Ali, That moment practically became the beginning of his story.

Personally, I believe and have always believed that Ali had a nasty streak. He enjoyed every word he spoke, and used "hyping the gate" as an excuse to be nasty. That's Ali in my opinion. Joe recognized that Ali wasn't just hyping the gate. And that's why it look Joe so long to forgive Ali - if he ever did.

Ray, I respect that point of view, though I don't judge Ali as harshly.....the "fornicate you if you can't take a joke" mentality just doesn't rub me the wrong way as it does for some....and admittedly Ali had that in spades. But unlike you, I'm not sold that he had hatred, or genuine spite in him, but did he take it so far that many could doubt that? Yes he did. I"m good with the fact that you and Yancy feel differently on this.

For the record, I'm not sure that there have been many folks that have walked among us that were made of much better stuff than the likes of Floyd Patterson and Joe Frazier.....both represent the gold standard of humanity in my humble opinion.

[mrbassie]

I honestly think that Ali NEVER realized until it was too late, that Joe was taking much of it personal. Ali was a showman, and a good man. Frazier was workman and a good man. You've met the sort of folks that really care about people, and would never besmirch another person even to get ahead? That's Joe in my opinion. He didn't get the humor, he was too sincere if there is such a thing. Ali never meant to be so hurtful..(again my opinion) but when he realized Joe wasn't gettin' it....I think he took the attitude...eff him if he can't take a joke. Ali would have probably have preferred to have a business partner that would wink and jack everyone up for the money. And that's when it went very bad between them. Frazier would simply never do such a thing. That doesn't make Joe overall the better man, but for me it does for at least that single point of order.

Joe was no "Barnum and Bailey Clown"......and he simply took an oath to himself that if he could beat this guy into being humble, that's exactly what he was going to do. And he did beat Ali, but Ali made the equally sincere decision that "I don't do humble even when I'm whupped".

And instead of that fight being the end of the story for Ali, That moment practically became the beginning of his story.

Personally, I believe and have always believed that Ali had a nasty streak. He enjoyed every word he spoke, and used "hyping the gate" as an excuse to be nasty. That's Ali in my opinion. Joe recognized that Ali wasn't just hyping the gate. And that's why it look Joe so long to forgive Ali - if he ever did.

I think perhaps Ali was a little embarrassed by the fact that Frazier helped him out when he needed it. I think there was a lot of whispering in his ear from the NOI also. Frazier was the son of a sharecropper, not a bow tie wearing, educated light skinned member of the cult. "He's worse than white people to me".

[BigJuicyHog]

11 KIDS!!!!

[raylawpc]

I honestly think that Ali NEVER realized until it was too late, that Joe was taking much of it personal. Ali was a showman, and a good man. Frazier was workman and a good man. You've met the sort of folks that really care about people, and would never besmirch another person even to get ahead? That's Joe in my opinion. He didn't get the humor, he was too sincere if there is such a thing. Ali never meant to be so hurtful..(again my opinion) but when he realized Joe wasn't gettin' it....I think he took the attitude...eff him if he can't take a joke. Ali would have probably have preferred to have a business partner that would wink and jack everyone up for the money. And that's when it went very bad between them. Frazier would simply never do such a thing. That doesn't make Joe overall the better man, but for me it does for at least that single point of order.

Joe was no "Barnum and Bailey Clown"......and he simply took an oath to himself that if he could beat this guy into being humble, that's exactly what he was going to do. And he did beat Ali, but Ali made the equally sincere decision that "I don't do humble even when I'm whupped".

And instead of that fight being the end of the story for Ali, That moment practically became the beginning of his story.

I think perhaps Ali was a little embarrassed by the fact that Frazier helped him out when he needed it. I think there was a lot of whispering in his ear from the NOI also. Frazier was the son of a sharecropper, not a bow tie wearing, educated light skinned member of the cult. "He's worse than white people to me".

Personally, I believe and have always believed that Ali had a nasty streak. He enjoyed every word he spoke, and used "hyping the gate" as an excuse to be nasty. That's Ali in my opinion. Joe recognized that Ali wasn't just hyping the gate. And that's why it look Joe so long to forgive Ali - if he ever did.

For the record, I never wrote that first paragraph attributed to me. It is bad form to put words in someone's mouth.

[mrbassie]

[

For the record, I never wrote that first paragraph attributed to me. It is bad form to put words in someone's mouth.

Sorry about that, wasn't intentional. Fixed now.

[Crease]

I honestly think that Ali NEVER realized until it was too late, that Joe was taking much of it personal. Ali was a showman, and a good man. Frazier was workman and a good man. You've met the sort of folks that really care about people, and would never besmirch another person even to get ahead? That's Joe in my opinion. He didn't get the humor, he was too sincere if there is such a thing. Ali never meant to be so hurtful..(again my opinion) but when he realized Joe wasn't gettin' it....I think he took the attitude...eff him if he can't take a joke.

My opinion disagrees with yours, Buzz.

Muhammad Ali was no fool and he knew exactly what he was doing, calling Frazier an "Uncle Tom" - is a pretty bad & bitter insult for a black man to call aonther. Ali was relentless & brutal he mocked every part of Joe Frazier that he could - his appearances ("he's ugly") his fight style ("he can't do no shuffle") & basically he couldn't think of anything bad enough to say anout Smokin' Joe.

Ali had a "likeability factor" because he was funny and entertaining - with all his gimmicks - his rhymes, his round predictions etc...
Ad it's because of this that the boxing public forgive him for his misdemeaners of the past. But I believe he was a thoroughly an unpleasant man.

Now, before I go any further I believe that Ali's mocking had a light-hearted side, where it is both funny and nobodys fellings get hurt, like in the below video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WhktJPT5xA

But with Joe Frazier, there was something different about Ali;s tretment of him. It was dark and sinister and it came from a bad place. I have heard a few theorys in the past about why ALi singled Joe Frazier out so much, one of which is that:
"Ali was actually afraid of Frazier, e knew Joe could beat him"

Whether that is true or not is a matter of debate. But no-one can deny that he brought his insults and his gimmicks to a new level when he faced Frazier.

I tend to agree with Ray when he says:

Personally, I believe and have always believed that Ali had a nasty streak. He enjoyed every word he spoke, and used "hyping the gate" as an excuse to be nasty. That's Ali in my opinion. Joe recognized that Ali wasn't just hyping the gate. And that's why it look Joe so long to forgive Ali - if he ever did.

Ali's nasty side is there for all to see, look at his beatdown of Ernie Terrell, that was some bad-hearted stuff the way that he viciously punished Ernie throughout that fight.

I don't think I am being too critical of Muhammad Ali, but I find that when people are discussing him they struggle to reamin objective. They highly praise his entertainment value and the interest he could bring to his fights but they often ignore the man's failings.

Ali just could not accept that anyone could be better than him at something, And while this may be the right kind of substance to make a truly great competitor - it, at times, made him very unlikeable & and a bad sportsman.

Joe Frazier won The Fight Of The Century fair and square (and Joe knocked him down twice in that fight- some people forget that but the first one was judged a slip).
Ali never give Frazier credit for winning that fight, and that made him a bad sportsman.

I don't blame Frazier for baring a lot of hurt toward Ali, Muhamad would not give Smokin' Joe credit for anything in his time.

[Crease]

I just want to bring one other thing to your attention, folks. This interview is between is between the 1st & 2nd fight between them. Ali is joking and it is light-hearted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IocCgocR ... re=related

Now compare that to his treatment of Joe before the thrilla. And it's clear to see that his personal attacks became much more scathing later on.

[Ezzard]

I think after Joe won the FOTC that Ali claiming it was a bad decision and that Joe didn’t represent his people were probably the harshest things.

There was a docu on TV about how Tina Turner refused to speak to Joe backstage in Japan because she and her ‘people’ were for Ali. That’s pretty hard to take for the world champ who got there by sheer hard work and dedication. And, of course, the irony is that if it had been a white champ backstage she’d have gladly have shook his hand and spent 5 minutes with him.

So Joe proved he was the best yet he couldn’t actually enjoy being the champ because Ali (rightly or wrongly) had poisoned it for him. Then Ali went on to make millions whilst Joe lost all his money. You can see why the resentment got worse.

[raylawpc]

[

For the record, I never wrote that first paragraph attributed to me. It is bad form to put words in someone's mouth.

Sorry about that, wasn't intentional. Fixed now.

Thanks!

[yancey]

I honestly think that Ali NEVER realized until it was too late, that Joe was taking much of it personal. Ali was a showman, and a good man. Frazier was workman and a good man. You've met the sort of folks that really care about people, and would never besmirch another person even to get ahead? That's Joe in my opinion. He didn't get the humor, he was too sincere if there is such a thing. Ali never meant to be so hurtful..(again my opinion) but when he realized Joe wasn't gettin' it....I think he took the attitude...eff him if he can't take a joke.

My opinion disagrees with yours, Buzz.

Muhammad Ali was no fool and he knew exactly what he was doing, calling Frazier an "Uncle Tom" - is a pretty bad & bitter insult for a black man to call aonther. Ali was relentless & brutal he mocked every part of Joe Frazier that he could - his appearances ("he's ugly") his fight style ("he can't do no shuffle") & basically he couldn't think of anything bad enough to say anout Smokin' Joe.

Ali had a "likeability factor" because he was funny and entertaining - with all his gimmicks - his rhymes, his round predictions etc...
Ad it's because of this that the boxing public forgive him for his misdemeaners of the past. But I believe he was a thoroughly an unpleasant man.

Now, before I go any further I believe that Ali's mocking had a light-hearted side, where it is both funny and nobodys fellings get hurt, like in the below video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WhktJPT5xA

But with Joe Frazier, there was something different about Ali;s tretment of him. It was dark and sinister and it came from a bad place. I have heard a few theorys in the past about why ALi singled Joe Frazier out so much, one of which is that:
"Ali was actually afraid of Frazier, e knew Joe could beat him"

Whether that is true or not is a matter of debate. But no-one can deny that he brought his insults and his gimmicks to a new level when he faced Frazier.

I tend to agree with Ray when he says:

Personally, I believe and have always believed that Ali had a nasty streak. He enjoyed every word he spoke, and used "hyping the gate" as an excuse to be nasty. That's Ali in my opinion. Joe recognized that Ali wasn't just hyping the gate. And that's why it look Joe so long to forgive Ali - if he ever did.

Ali's nasty side is there for all to see, look at his beatdown of Ernie Terrell, that was some bad-hearted stuff the way that he viciously punished Ernie throughout that fight.

I don't think I am being too critical of Muhammad Ali, but I find that when people are discussing him they struggle to reamin objective. They highly praise his entertainment value and the interest he could bring to his fights but they often ignore the man's failings.

Ali just could not accept that anyone could be better than him at something, And while this may be the right kind of substance to make a truly great competitor - it, at times, made him very unlikeable & and a bad sportsman.

Joe Frazier won The Fight Of The Century fair and square (and Joe knocked him down twice in that fight- some people forget that but the first one was judged a slip).
Ali never give Frazier credit for winning that fight, and that made him a bad sportsman.

I don't blame Frazier for baring a lot of hurt toward Ali, Muhamad would not give Smokin' Joe credit for anything in his time.

Man, did you nail it.

I know some people aren't going to like the truth, but you laid it out, pure and simple.

The 2011 BoxRec Post of the Year, imo.

[Crease]

There was a docu on TV about how Tina Turner refused to speak to Joe backstage in Japan because she and her ‘people’ were for Ali. That’s pretty hard to take for the world champ who got there by sheer hard work and dedication. And, of course, the irony is that if it had been a white champ backstage she’d have gladly have shook his hand and spent 5 minutes with him.

I didn't even know about the Tina Turner incident, that is a horrible way to behave toward a Heavyweight Champion, whose main character attributes where that he was respectful & honest.

So Joe proved he was the best yet he couldn’t actually enjoy being the champ because Ali (rightly or wrongly) had poisoned it for him. Then Ali went on to make millions whilst Joe lost all his money. You can see why the resentment got worse.

Didn't Muhammad Ali sell his image rights for something like $50 million and Somkin' Joe ended up living in a bedsit. :(

That's a terrible situation, both men are each others equals as they proved in the ring.
(The only thing, that I find that separates them is when you cinlude George Foreman in there and their results against him).

[Crease]

Man, did you nail it.
I know some people aren't going to like the truth, but you laid it out, pure and simple.
The 2011 BoxRec Post of the Year, imo.

Thanks for the high praise. Have a good day.

[observer1]

Alot of people are here are being unfair to Ali and showing sympathy for Frazier simply because of the recent death of Frazier imo....

Facts do not change....

Ali did not just talk trash for the sake of talking trash like recent boxers i.e Tyson, Mayweather etc.

He did it for 3 reasons

1 - Get under Opponents Skin
2 - Raise the Ticket's and get everyone to know who he was- (I think he even faked a kidnapping against Buster Mathis to get tickets sold)
3 - Things got personal in the Political/Social ecene

Nearly all of his bouts were for the first two reasons.

The third reason was evident against Frazier (who was seen as pro-establishment), Patterson and Terrel (who kept calling him Clay despite everyone else finally calling him Ali).

Patterson, Foreman, Terrel etc. all became good friends with Ali after the bout, and understood that they had to play the game if they wanted to make the most of things.

Frazier however was the only one who didn't. That is simply because Ali and him both peaked together, but Ali edged him. Ali got the money and fame because he carried himself well outside the ring, and knew how to play the game.

As a result, Ali did well economically afterwards. Frazier didn't. That's what it all boils down to, sour grapes.

Frazier has gone down on record saying everything is okay between him and Ali, and they apologized and made up. But it was only Frazier who would randomly come out with his tirades of how Ali was too severe etc.

This video says it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asyQAAdbpDk

Taken in 1989, it shows how bitter Frazier was. And they all agree Ali had the charisma and talent to pull of what he did.

[observer1]

Personally, I believe and have always believed that Ali had a nasty streak. He enjoyed every word he spoke, and used "hyping the gate" as an excuse to be nasty. That's Ali in my opinion. Joe recognized that Ali wasn't just hyping the gate. And that's why it look Joe so long to forgive Ali - if he ever did.

That is your opinion, which means nothing. Because Ali has gone on record, during after his career, to apologize to his opponents who he taunted.

Frazier however, even recently as of few years ago, has said he was happy that Ali had Parkinson's, and shameless "Takes credit" for being responsible for his Illness. (See the HBO Thrilla in Manilla Documentry (2009) )

So if you're going to accuse Ali of something that is just your own opinion, then you must feel the same way about Frazier right?

[raylawpc]

Personally, I believe and have always believed that Ali had a nasty streak. He enjoyed every word he spoke, and used "hyping the gate" as an excuse to be nasty. That's Ali in my opinion. Joe recognized that Ali wasn't just hyping the gate. And that's why it look Joe so long to forgive Ali - if he ever did.

That is your opinion, which means nothing. Because Ali has gone on record, during after his career, to apologize to his opponents who he taunted.

Frazier however, even recently as of few years ago, has said he was happy that Ali had Parkinson's, and shameless "Takes credit" for being responsible for his Illness. (See the HBO Thrilla in Manilla Documentry (2009) )

So if you're going to accuse Ali of something that is just your own opinion, then you must feel the same way about Frazier right?

I certainly think that Frazier's comments about Ali's Parkinson's were inappropriate, especially given my father died from complications of Parkinson's. I've never said anything to the contrary. I think it is unfortunate that Joe said those things. However, given the nastiness Ali showed Frazier, it is easy to understand why Joe never got over it. Joe never did anything to justify the kind of treatment he received from Ali. In fact, as I understand it, when Ali was in exile Joe helped him financially and worked behind the scenes to help get his license restored.

In my opinion, Ali was self-centered and had a mean streak. He used "hyping the game" to try to justify a naturally obnoxious personality.

[observer1]

Personally, I believe and have always believed that Ali had a nasty streak. He enjoyed every word he spoke, and used "hyping the gate" as an excuse to be nasty. That's Ali in my opinion. Joe recognized that Ali wasn't just hyping the gate. And that's why it look Joe so long to forgive Ali - if he ever did.

That is your opinion, which means nothing. Because Ali has gone on record, during after his career, to apologize to his opponents who he taunted.

Frazier however, even recently as of few years ago, has said he was happy that Ali had Parkinson's, and shameless "Takes credit" for being responsible for his Illness. (See the HBO Thrilla in Manilla Documentry (2009) )

So if you're going to accuse Ali of something that is just your own opinion, then you must feel the same way about Frazier right?

I certainly think that Frazier's comments about Ali's Parkinson's were inappropriate, especially given my father died from complications of Parkinson's. I've never said anything to the contrary. I think it is unfortunate that Joe said those things. However, given the nastiness Ali showed Frazier, it is easy to understand why Joe never got over it. Joe never did anything to justify the kind of treatment he received from Ali. In fact, as I understand it, when Ali was in exile Joe helped him financially and worked behind the scenes to help get his license restored.

In my opinion, Ali was self-centered and had a mean streak. He used "hyping the game" to try to justify a naturally obnoxious personality.

Sorry, but i think you've got something against Ali if you "understand" why Frazier said what he said. Ali taunted Frazier, but he never wished anything to happen to him, his family or health. It was all about Ali vs Frazier in the ring at the end of the day.

For Frazier to say that pre-fight, then okay. But for him to say it 30 years later is disgusting. I'm not saying accept what Ali did. But if you're going not going to like Ali for what he said, then surely, you of all people, should despise Frazier for what he said.

[Giancarlo]

Observer1, you need to understand that Tom Ray, Elmer & Yancey have a long-standing deep-rooted hatred for Ali and all he stands for.

Always keep that in mind when reading their posts.

[raylawpc]

Observer1, you need to understand that Tom Ray, Elmer & Yancey have a long-standing deep-rooted hatred for Ali and all he stands for.

Always keep that in mind when reading their posts.

I don't hate Ali, but I sure as heck don't like him. I don't hate anyone.