Joe Frazier interview

[raylawpc]

That is your opinion, which means nothing. Because Ali has gone on record, during after his career, to apologize to his opponents who he taunted.

Frazier however, even recently as of few years ago, has said he was happy that Ali had Parkinson's, and shameless "Takes credit" for being responsible for his Illness. (See the HBO Thrilla in Manilla Documentry (2009) )

So if you're going to accuse Ali of something that is just your own opinion, then you must feel the same way about Frazier right?

I certainly think that Frazier's comments about Ali's Parkinson's were inappropriate, especially given my father died from complications of Parkinson's. I've never said anything to the contrary. I think it is unfortunate that Joe said those things. However, given the nastiness Ali showed Frazier, it is easy to understand why Joe never got over it. Joe never did anything to justify the kind of treatment he received from Ali. In fact, as I understand it, when Ali was in exile Joe helped him financially and worked behind the scenes to help get his license restored.

In my opinion, Ali was self-centered and had a mean streak. He used "hyping the game" to try to justify a naturally obnoxious personality.

Sorry, but i think you've got something against Ali if you "understand" why Frazier said what he said. Ali taunted Frazier, but he never wished anything to happen to him, his family or health. It was all about Ali vs Frazier in the ring at the end of the day.

For Frazier to say that pre-fight, then okay. But for him to say it 30 years later is disgusting. I'm not saying accept what Ali did. But if you're going not going to like Ali for what he said, then surely, you of all people, should despise Frazier for what he said.

Suit yourself. I stand by what I wrote.

[Crease]

Because Ali has gone on record, during after his career, to apologize to his opponents who he taunted.

But isn't this a case of too little, too late. Have you read the abuse that Frazier went through after beating Ali in their first fight?
Ali had no right to turn their fight in to a political contest, when really there was nothing political about it. Both men were proud African Americans - so there was no race issue at hand, though Ali was trying to present it as one.

Frazier however, even recently as of few years ago, has said he was happy that Ali had Parkinson's, and shameless "Takes credit" for being responsible for his Illness. (See the HBO Thrilla in Manilla Documentry (2009) )

Yeah that was pretty bad but it just goes to show how bitterness, hurt & pain can cloud our judgments. And it's a bit of a travesty, they were both great fighters and things could have been much, much different because there is so much to respect in both men.

[Crease]

Sorry, but i think you've got something against Ali if you "understand" why Frazier said what he said.

I too understand why Frazier said that. Though I don't agree with it or condone it.

Ali taunted Frazier, but he never wished anything to happen to him, his family or health.

You watched that Thriller in Manila documentary, were you aware that Ali fired a gun up at Frazier's hotel room?

It was all about Ali vs Frazier in the ring at the end of the day.

No it wasn't. It should have been, but Ali done his best to make it a political & religious clash.

[observer1]

Sorry, but i think you've got something against Ali if you "understand" why Frazier said what he said.

I too understand why Frazier said that. Though I don't agree with it or condone it.

Ali taunted Frazier, but he never wished anything to happen to him, his family or health.

You watched that Thriller in Manila documentary, were you aware that Ali fired a gun up at Frazier's hotel room?

It was all about Ali vs Frazier in the ring at the end of the day.

No it wasn't. It should have been, but Ali done his best to make it a political & religious clash.

Well i understand why he said what he said, but that would be stating the obvious. But what i am saying, Frazier and Ali went through a LOT during and decades after the fight. Interviews, documentaries etc.

Frazier had some bipolar moments, "forgiving" and "Cursing" him all the time. For him to be so bitter afterwards is just sad, but understandable. However, to "take responsibility" for Ali's Parkinson's is nothing short of disgusting.

This is NOT my view, nor an average person's view, but the view of Frazier's own family, children and friends.

As for Politics, it's no doubt Ali was hounded and screwed over by his government and lost a good chunk of his career because of the government. Ali was hounded by the government and middle-class white America, something that would be enough to destroy any man's reputation and status.

Ali however rose above it, and manage to manipulate it to his own advantage. Frazier just went over a no-fly zone. If Ali was as harsh as some of you make him out to be, he would have the audacity to justify taunting Frazier. But he didn't, he apologized to him saying he took it a step too far.

Frazier on the hand smiled in front of Ali on Camera, but laughed at his illness behind his back.
Understandable? Maybe
Despicable? But of course.

[mrbassie]

Because Ali has gone on record, during after his career, to apologize to his opponents who he taunted.

But isn't this a case of too little, too late. Have you read the abuse that Frazier went through after beating Ali in their first fight?
Ali had no right to turn their fight in to a political contest, when really there was nothing political about it. Both men were proud African Americans - so there was no race issue at hand, though Ali was trying to present it as one.

Frazier however, even recently as of few years ago, has said he was happy that Ali had Parkinson's, and shameless "Takes credit" for being responsible for his Illness. (See the HBO Thrilla in Manilla Documentry (2009) )

Yeah that was pretty bad but it just goes to show how bitterness, hurt & pain can cloud our judgments. And it's a bit of a travesty, they were both great fighters and things could have been much, much different because there is so much to respect in both men.

From his point of view there was. Remember that the NOI, including Ali of course, were not part of the civil rights movement, they publically spoke out against Martin Luther King for example. They frowned upon dark skinned blacks as those with skin tones that more closely resemble north African Muslims were seen as superior. Ironically, for all their talk about "white devils" and slavery etc. the very people who came from so far below the poverty line that they'd actually experienced life alike to the slavery era were the very people they shunned. The uneducated and more importantly the non muslim (or rather non muslim derived heretic).

I wouldn't go so far as to say all the cruelty Ali displayed during that time was heartfelt, I'm sure a lot of the things he said were what he was told he should be saying.

Frazier was the type of guy who took people as he found them, the very fact that he wasn't racist against white people, didn't see himself as being on one side of a line that can never be crossed is why they hated him.

[observer1]

I think it's important that Ali shunned the NOI along with Malcolm X, and faced death threats as a result of it. He became a proper mainstream Sunni Muslim then, and not the NOI (Which had very little to with Islam in the first place).

Ali probably regrets most of the things he said, but the reality is Ali was still in the period of the Civil Rights Movement. Something Frazier, Foreman and others never went through.

It is also important to note that Ali did not face the hidden prejudice that many face today, but in fact faced real official segregation and government sanctioned anti-color law's. This is why he did some of the things he did.

[elmersalsa]

Observer1, you need to understand that Tom Ray, Elmer & Yancey have a long-standing deep-rooted hatred for Ali and all he stands for.

Always keep that in mind when reading their posts.

Me? hating the great Muhammad Ali? No way. In no circumstances. Ali and the great Roberto Duran are my favorite top 2 fighters. What I did not like about Ali is how he treated Smokin' Joe. Even the Black American community did not like Joe because they followed what Ali said against Joe. I think that was UNFAIR. THAT IS NOT GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP.

What I also don't like about the whole thing, is the media, had it all for Ali. Fight #1 between them, which was the fight most anticipated in boxing history is not even shown on tv nor ESPNClassic. The Thrilla in Manila? Is repeated thousand times. There is a level of UNFAIRNESS.

Also when Frazier beat him, the media, and other writers and the same Ferdie Pacheco, claimed that Ali was rusty. They were trying to take some of Joe's glory. He won the biggest fight in history. Still, he did not get no props.

Let's give this great champ his due. He was a hell of a champion.

[yancey]

Observer1, you need to understand that Tom Ray, Elmer & Yancey have a long-standing deep-rooted hatred for Ali and all he stands for.

Always keep that in mind when reading their posts.

Me? hating the great Muhammad Ali? No way. In no circumstances. Ali and the great Roberto Duran are my favorite top 2 fighters. What I did not like about Ali is how he treated Smokin' Joe. Even the Black American community did not like Joe because they followed what Ali said against Joe. I think that was UNFAIR. THAT IS NOT GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP.

What I also don't like about the whole thing, is the media, had it all for Ali. Fight #1 between them, which was the fight most anticipated in boxing history is not even shown on tv nor ESPNClassic. The Thrilla in Manila? Is repeated thousand times. There is a level of UNFAIRNESS.

Also when Frazier beat him, the media, and other writers and the same Ferdie Pacheco, claimed that Ali was rusty. They were trying to take some of Joe's glory. He won the biggest fight in history. Still, he did not get no props.

Let's give this great champ his due. He was a hell of a champion.

Well said and very accurate.

[Crease]

What I did not like about Ali is how he treated Smokin' Joe. Even the Black American community did not like Joe because they followed what Ali said against Joe. I think that was UNFAIR. THAT IS NOT GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP.

True and I feel the same way about it. It was just a trilogy of boxing fights between two great rivals, nothing more or noghting less. Politics & religion had nothing to di with it.
It was a boxing fight, regardless of how much Ali tried to "hype it up".

And people love to put deeper meanings in to those fights. They were only bxoing fights, let's all say it like it is.

There is ample proof that Ali "raised the bar" when it came to trash-talking Joe Frazier, more so than any of his other opponents nefore or after the thrilla.