Boxing Mysteries-Who was George Foreman's"friend"(1974)

[Brutu]

I remember reading George Foreman's autobiography BY GEORGE.
In the chapter of the fight in Zaire he mentions something thats puzzled me since.
In the fight(around the fourth round I believe)He had Ali in trouble.
He had hit him with a tremendous roundhouse right to Ali's neck
when he was against the ropes.For a second Ali's legs buckled
and he sagged.Foreman was just about to follow up,when
directly in hiseyes view he saw someone in the crowd
(which he discribed as afriend of the family)yelling,
HE'S CHEATING!!!!HE'S CHEATING!!!!!
according to Foreman this so unnerved him to see this,
he basically went back to his corner and gave up the fight to win then and there.
the question is,
who may have this"friend"have been?
Foreman claimed he can not even remember his name anymore,
it affected him so much.
anyone here have any clues?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Ah, it was a bullsh!t excuse?

[Brutu]

I think it really happened and affected Foreman.
whether it cost him the fight is another matter.
I was wondering at one time if possibly it may have been
Jim Brown,Richard Pryor or Marvin Gaye.
But since Foreman mentions all three names in his book in other chapters,
obviously it is none of them.
Then I thought for a time maybe it was Scatman Crothers?
Was he even at the fight?
I think I may have seen him near Ali's dressing room
on video tape when Ali goes back there right after the fight.
But nowdays after thinking about this I now have a strong hunch who it may have actually been that made Foreman feel so betrayed at that time.

[Goodnight, Irene]

And that would be?

[bollox]

It was the succubus he saw in the general form of those loose ropes, brought on by the drugs someone slipped him. And all wrapped in a right hand of course

[BoxBuzz]

It was the ropes
It was the water
It was the person hiding in the grassy knoll

Pick one

[orbtastic]

As he says rather self depreciatingly in Champions Forever - My boots were too loose, the ropes were too slack...he just wanted any excuse to explain away how he lost.

[yancey]

Something never felt quite right about that fight to me.

Who knows, that might have been the best Ali heist of them all, though Kenny Norton would surely disagree.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Something never felt quite right about that fight to me.

Who knows, that might have been the best Ali heist of them all, though Kenny Norton would surely disagree.

So would Jimmy Young.

[BoxBuzz]

Something never felt quite right about that fight to me.

Who knows, that might have been the best Ali heist of them all, though Kenny Norton would surely disagree.

So would Jimmy Young.

Jimmy Young kept poking his head outside the ropes.......that could not have instilled confidence in any Young supporter on that night, and may have spelled out the outcome. He may have no one to blame but himself , which could explain some of that mystery (for the open minded.)

[yancey]

Something never felt quite right about that fight to me.

Who knows, that might have been the best Ali heist of them all, though Kenny Norton would surely disagree.

So would Jimmy Young.

Jimmy Young kept poking his head outside the ropes.......that could not have instilled confidence in any Young supporter on that night, and may have spelled out the outcome. He may have no one to blame but himself , which could explain some of that mystery (for the open minded.)

Plus an Ali loss of the title would have doomed that third Ali-Norton big money match.

Which could explain some of that mystery. (for the realistic.)

[hhaehre]

Something never felt quite right about that fight to me.

Who knows, that might have been the best Ali heist of them all, though Kenny Norton would surely disagree.

So would Jimmy Young.

Jimmy Young kept poking his head outside the ropes.......that could not have instilled confidence in any Young supporter on that night, and may have spelled out the outcome. He may have no one to blame but himself , which could explain some of that mystery (for the open minded.)

Ali beat Foreman fair and square, just as he beat Doug Jones and Shavers but he lost decisively to Norton in 76 and he also lost decisively to Young. Nothing is going to change that, least of all Young sticking his head outside the ropes a few times. Ali's holding vs. Frazier in their second fight was much more blatant but Joe got no favors from the referee or from the judges that night.

[Goodnight, Irene]

So would Jimmy Young.

Jimmy Young kept poking his head outside the ropes.......that could not have instilled confidence in any Young supporter on that night, and may have spelled out the outcome. He may have no one to blame but himself , which could explain some of that mystery (for the open minded.)

Plus an Ali loss of the title would have doomed that third Ali-Norton big money match.

Which could explain some of that mystery. (for the realistic.)

No kidding.

[BoxBuzz]

So would Jimmy Young.

Jimmy Young kept poking his head outside the ropes.......that could not have instilled confidence in any Young supporter on that night, and may have spelled out the outcome. He may have no one to blame but himself , which could explain some of that mystery (for the open minded.)

Ali beat Foreman fair and square, just as he beat Doug Jones and Shavers but he lost decisively to Norton in 76 and he also lost decisively to Young. Nothing is going to change that, least of all Young sticking his head outside the ropes a few times. Ali's holding vs. Frazier in their second fight was much more blatant but Joe got no favors from the referee or from the judges that night.

You obviously missed the part where the ref gives Joe an early break based on getting a bit wobbled. Go back and have a gander at that.

Also, it's entirely possible that judges were swayed by Young's behavior. But just like Marquez vs Pac, it may well have been because no one wanted to kill the goose that was laying golden eggs.

[yancey]

Boxbuzz makes a valid point that Frazier got a break from being wobbled a bit in the second round of the second Ali fight, but I also think Ali got away with a ridiculous amount of holding and pulling down of Frazier's head in that fight.

I think the reluctance to Kill the Golden Goose (Ali) approach applied to that second Frazier fight as well as the other Ali fights mentioned. I remember thinking before that fight went down that it was going to be hard for Frazier to win a close decision. I'm NOT saying that Frazier won that fight, but it is interesting that a majority of sportswriters at ringside thought Frazier had won before the decision was announced.

Ali was always the bigger commodity and it paid well for the insiders for him to stick around as a viable contender on the heavyweight scene.

[Ambling Alp]

A majorituy of the sportswriters thought Frazier won the 2nd fight? Wow. Must say I never heard that before. Of course, a lot of sportswriters (especially the older ones at the time) didn't like Ali.

[yancey]

deleted.

[yancey]

A majorituy of the sportswriters thought Frazier won the 2nd fight? Wow. Must say I never heard that before. Of course, a lot of sportswriters (especially the older ones at the time) didn't like Ali.

Yep, true.

I'd like to think really top sportswriters could put aside any personal biases when it came to judging the outcome.

I do recall there was much sentiment that Frazier carried the action whereas Ali mainly did a lot of flashy stuff towards the end of each round.

Again, not making an argument that Frazier really won that fight. Never was much interested in that fight as I knew that Frazier was well past the form that was so compelling from '67-'70.

[Brutu]

I dont wanna get sued,so i will just give u some clues whom I think it may be.
first clue,He along with Don King was one of the promoters.
second clue is.
(as to a song he made famous)what did Chuck Norris do to the hero and star of the movie
RETURN OF THE DRAGON,when he gave him a karate chop followed by a sidekick
in the Colliseum?

[Brutu]

BTW did u see the dvd SOUL POWER?
ITS about the music and acts of the event in Zaire in 1974.
James Brown,The Spinners,B.B King etc
what is strange is that there is plenty of images and film of Muhammad Ali
in it,but no film or image of George Foreman at all!
I just found that to be weird.

[yancey]

Was Don King the official promoter of the Zaire fight?

Back then, I never paid much attention to the promoters, but I was thinking King became the top dog a little later.

When did Bob Arum come on the scene?

[raylawpc]

Was Don King the official promoter of the Zaire fight?

Back then, I never paid much attention to the promoters, but I was thinking King became the top dog a little later.

When did Bob Arum come on the scene?

Yes, King was the official promoter. It was his first big promotion. I remember him before that as being involved with Earnie Shavers, and promoting fights in Cleveland with Don Elbaum.

If memory serves he and Arum began coming to prominence in the mid-1970s. Arum began his more famous mega promotions in the 1980s, but he was involved in the 1970s. I don't remember the details but I recall his involvement because I was preparing to go to law school in those days, and the promoter I worked for speculated that I could use my legal training as a promoter someday like Arum did.

[bollox]

In Don King's own words he came with the champ and he left with the champ. For Foreman Frazier 1, Joe brought him along as a hanger on. Don sat near frazier's corner and as the fight progressed he moved further and further away from Frazier's corner and by the fight's end he was in George's corner. That about typifies Don King to me, not giving a stuff about anyone but himself. Oh, and his use of (again, his own words)....."trickerations")

[yancey]

I dont wanna get sued,so i will just give u some clues whom I think it may be.
first clue,He along with Don King was one of the promoters.
second clue is.
(as to a song he made famous)what did Chuck Norris do to the hero and star of the movie
RETURN OF THE DRAGON,when he gave him a karate chop followed by a sidekick
in the Colliseum?

Come on man, out with it.

We will speak up for you in court when you get sued.

[Brutu]

Well maybe he helped organized the Foreman vs Ali fight would be more apt discribtion.
remember Foreman was THE WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION,.
But was Ali the number one contender?