Hatton & Calzaghe --- Who Ranks Higher Historically?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Britain's foremost boxers of the 2000's.

Which one deserves a higher place in history? I think cases could be made for each.

[bollox]

Joe by a mile

[bollox]

I don't pay too much attantion to the number of titles and divisions. It's all about longevity and quality of comp. The quality of comp thing is a bit misleading these days due to fighters going so far beyond their prime. Quite often it makes for a 'name' on someone's win column but can mean very little. If Joe defended 21 times against his grandmother surely she would have gotten lucky at least once

[bollox]

Very good point re Hatton's style

[Goodnight, Irene]

If you place a lot of emphasis on competition, Bollox, its hard to see how you have Calzaghe, "a mile," in front.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Calzaghe, he was a better boxer, had more longevity, moved up and defeated Hopkins where Hatton fell to Mayweather, and was generally a more dominant fighter for a longer period of time. Hatton always had a vulnerability about him that seemed to go away against Tszyu then steadily re-emerge in his subsequent fights.

[dempseyfire]

If you place a lot of emphasis on competition, Bollox, its hard to see how you have Calzaghe, "a mile," in front.

I think it's Calzaghe by a mile as well. Calzaghe's W over Hopkins, especially in retrospect, is better than Ricky's over Tszyu. And his other Ws as a whole are better; he dominated the next best fighters he faced (Kessler, Lacy, Mitchell). Hatton after Tszyu has Paulie Mag and a washed-up Castillo.

Are we suddenly going to give Hatton credit simply that the two top lb for lb guys were in or around his division (Hatton and Manny) and that he got KO'd by both? Other than that I don't see how Hatton has any edge in competition whatsoever.

[Diamond WEAPON]

If you place a lot of emphasis on competition, Bollox, its hard to see how you have Calzaghe, "a mile," in front.

I think it's Calzaghe by a mile as well. Calzaghe's W over Hopkins, especially in retrospect, is better than Ricky's over Tszyu. And his other Ws as a whole are better; he dominated the next best fighters he faced (Kessler, Lacy, Mitchell). Hatton after Tszyu has Paulie Mag and a washed-up Castillo.

Are we suddenly going to give Hatton credit simply that the two top lb for lb guys were in or around his division (Hatton and Manny) and that he got KO'd by both? Other than that I don't see how Hatton has any edge in competition whatsoever.

Hopkins was also arguably p4p #2 at the time Calzaghe beat him as well

[NICARAGUAN NIGHTMARE]

Calzaghe by actually beating jones and Hopkins not having to mug Tszyu at home

[Goodnight, Irene]

Calzaghe by actually beating jones and Hopkins not having to mug Tszyu at home

Jones!? You fucken kidding me?

Give Hatton the Castillo win then.

[dominik]

Calzaghe. He like many german fighters was protected and fought a lot of bums for most of his career but in the end he was really able to pick it up and beat some very good opponents.

Hatton initially had better competiton but unlike JC he was not able to beat the best when he stepped up.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Calzaghe. He like many german fighters was protected and fought a lot of bums for most of his career but in the end he was really able to pick it up and beat some very good opponents.

Hatton initially had better competiton but unlike JC he was not able to beat the best when he stepped up.

Calzaghe beat ONE very good fighter --- and that VG fighter wasnt as good as either Mayweather or Pacquiao even in his hey day, let alone several years removed from it.

[dempseyfire]

Calzaghe. He like many german fighters was protected and fought a lot of bums for most of his career but in the end he was really able to pick it up and beat some very good opponents.

Hatton initially had better competiton but unlike JC he was not able to beat the best when he stepped up.

Calzaghe beat ONE very good fighter --- and that VG fighter wasnt as good as either Mayweather or Pacquiao even in his hey day, let alone several years removed from it.

Calzaghe beat one GREAT fighter and while close decisively won in most's eyes. Hatton stepped up to two greats and got brutally stopped. And Bernard, while not as great as Floyd and Manny, is certainly in their league (I would not put Kotsya on that level), so the difference in the respective outcomes is telling.
Calzaghe throughout his career showed an excellent chin, amazing work-rate, and high class skills that would see him compete in any era. Hatton was a pressure mauler without a great chin (not glass, but not great), without great defense, and without a great punch. He did well in his era but does anyone think Hatton even competes with greats of the 140 lb class such as Pryor, Ortiz, Benitez, Canzoneri etc? While one can definitely see Calzaghe competing with Jones Jr, Toney, Nunn, and other elites of the 168 lb weight class (which historically is not as deep as the 140 lb class, I know, but my main point remains)

[Goodnight, Irene]

It is nowhere NEAR as deep, Dempsey. Its a puddle and a lake.

I dont discount Calzaghe as a better fighter, as my take on him vs Hagler proves, but the HUGE majority of his opposition was in the Mediocre - Pure Trash range. Hopkins may've been conceivably in the Mayweather - Pacquiao ballpark in his prime (I dont buy it personally), but not 4-6 years removed from his best, no matter how well hes aged.

[roccittymaj]

Calzaghe HANDS DOWN!

[Ambling Alp]

Calzaghe by a mile? That is an understatement.
Just watching them fight it is obvious Calzaghe was much better.

Calzaghe beat better competition.
When Hatton fought elite competition, he got beat badly both times. Winning paper titles doesn't make you great.

This is a no-brainer. Calzaghe is certainly one of the top 100 fighters of all-time. No way that Hatton is in the top 200.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Calzaghe made a career out of a paper title.

[Ambling Alp]

He beat the best guys available. He was the best fighter in his weight class for several years.
Hatton had two chances and couldn't compete. There are dozens of fighters better than Hatton who rarely get mentioned.

[Goodnight, Irene]

He beat the best guys available. He was the best fighter in his weight class for several years.
Hatton had two chances and couldn't compete. There are dozens of fighters better than Hatton who rarely get mentioned.

Hatton was the best guy in his weightclass for nearly five years. He was moderately competititive with Mayweather (better than can be said for most guys), and got blown away by a guy better than anyone Calzaghe faced, and better by a MILLION MILES than anyone not named Hopkins.

"Two chances and couldnt compete," is absurdly facile, even leaving alone the fact Calzaghe NEVER beats the 168lb. equivalent of a Mayweather or Pacquiao --- and thats from someone who picks him to beat Hagler.

Their whole careers, Hatton faced consistently better opposition. Calzaghe was the better boxer, but his achievements are not what they're being made out to be here.

[observer1]

He beat the best guys available. He was the best fighter in his weight class for several years.
Hatton had two chances and couldn't compete. There are dozens of fighters better than Hatton who rarely get mentioned.

Hatton was the best guy in his weightclass for nearly five years. He was moderately competititive with Mayweather (better than can be said for most guys), and got blown away by a guy better than anyone Calzaghe faced, and better by a MILLION MILES than anyone not named Hopkins.

"Two chances and couldnt compete," is absurdly facile, even leaving alone the fact Calzaghe NEVER beats the 168lb. equivalent of a Mayweather or Pacquiao --- and thats from someone who picks him to beat Hagler.

Their whole careers, Hatton faced consistently better opposition. Calzaghe was the better boxer, but his achievements are not what they're being made out to be here.

Pretty much agree.
Hatton is overrated as a Boxer and Cazalghe is by far the better Boxer.

That said, i think Hatton did alot more eventually. The problem with British fighters is thy hype train their on.

Hatton wasted years defending the unrecognized WBF Belt, but eventually went on to face good opposition. Albeit being humiliated against the best two he faced.

Calzaghe however is a different scenario. He held a single belt in a division that was simply woeful.

He stayed in the UK, (Often citing various excuses such as fear of flying and money etc). At the same time, the likes of Hopkins, RJJ, Winky, Tarver,Toney etc. were making big bouts shifting weight classes and making $$ Millions $$ super fights.

Instead of moving up, he would starve himself (around 2 days before the weigh in according to his own words) just to stay at SMW.

In the end it took him 10 years to unify an awful division, which after doing, he moved up and face Hopkins and RJJ, who by then were at a combined age of 83.

Was Hopkins still Good despite being 6-8 years off his prime? Yes. But to take credit from that, means Tommy Morrison is a great champion for beating an Old George Foreman.

Facts are Facts, British fighters are known to play politics in Boxing, and aside from the UK, nobody remembers or cares for them.

[Goodnight, Irene]

It's funny how Calzaghe's conquering of his fear of flying coincided with Hopkins and Jones' decline from their peak years

[Crease]

You know what? I'm gonna say Ricky Hatton because I think it's close and there hasn't been much love for Ricky on this thread thus far.


Hatton was a fearless fighter, he would have fought anybody!!! And Ricky actively seeked out the best fights that he could get. (the same cannot be said for Joe Calzaghe, 10 years holding a World Title before he decided to unify).

Hatton's career can onl;y be described as a profound success, a lot of people counted Ricky out as a no-hoper due to his slugging style, yet "The Hitman" persevered and punded away at his opponents.

Hatton won the lightly-ragrded WBU Title and had 14 defences in 3 years (mathematically works out as 3.5 fights a year)
then he finally got his title shot against Tzszyu & retired him.

Hatton then immediately went on to unify his IBF Title with the WBA Title by beating Carlos Maussa & making him the undsiputed number one Light Welterweight in the world at the time.

But Ricky's hunger for success wasn't appeased, he moved up to Weltrweight and outscrapped Luis Collazo for his WBA Welterweight Title, Ricky was now a 2-weight World Champ. (This is regarded as one of Hatton's worst performance during his ascension years, and yet he still won the fight)

Hattont hen moved back down to Light Welterweight and regaine dhis old IVF Light Welterweight Title off of Juan Urango.

Hatton then went on to smash top contender, Jose Luis Castillo to defend his IBF Title.

Then he moved up to Welterweight to face Mayweather and lost.

Moving back down and keeping at Light Welterweight Hatton faced and beat Juan Lazcano & top contender Paulie Malignagggi, both by wide margins.

Then his career was finished off by a bad defeatat the hands of Manny Pacquaio.

Hatton may not have been the best boxer of his day, but he was a formidable opponent and during his prime years, he probably would have made my top 10 P4P list.

His losses against Mayweather & Pacquaio, I wouldn't hold against him - because these two are probably going to progress on and be remembered as both all-time great fighters.
Not just greats of their time.

Actually, the very fact that "The Hitman" was ballsy enough to face Floyd & Many at the height of their powers says something about the courage of the man. He should be commended for taking the fights, not condemnded for lsing them.

[NazNaci1]

100% agree Crease. Hattons 'WBU' defences are pretty much on par with Calzaghe's 'WBO' defences. Both had a lot of substandard defences.

The difference in the quality of resume is pretty startling and cannot be denied.

21 defences against mostly poor opponents, a few decent ones and very few very good ones, does not impress me much.

Whereas a genuine World title winner in 2 weight classes, beating an established, albiet diminishing great fighter (Tzyzu) beating some good names and then skyrocketting to 'bar', taking on the No1 and No2 P4P fighters, at their peaks for the mythical P4P Title.

Despite losing those fights and Calzaghe remaining unbeaten, for me, that fact Hatton stepped up counts for a hell of a lot more than Calazaghe, who choose to stay 'safe', to preserve his 0. That will always count against him, well for me it does.

As does his questionable win against Robin Reid (I thought he lost that fight) and both he and Warren never ever entertained the idea of a rematch. Ever. Too much emphasis on the '0', as usual, which does not surprise me.

[Crease]

100% agree Crease. Hattons 'WBU' defences are pretty much on par with Calzaghe's 'WBO' defences. Both had a lot of substandard defences.

I often find that people tend to forget that Hatton had such a lengthy WBU Title reign. He pretty much held that title down and consistently beat the "B" class fighters of the division in quick succession.

But this is often overlooked and people think that Hatton's career only started after he beat Tszyu for the IBF Title.

The difference in the quality of resume is pretty startling and cannot be denied.

Exactly, there aren't any Mayweather or Pacquaio's on Joe Calzaghe's record, no sir. I noticed that someone mentioned Bernard Hopkins earlier on. I watched that fight and though it was cloase, I scored it it in Joe's favour. But a lot of the BoxRec public gave that fight to Hopkins...

21 defences against mostly poor opponents, a few decent ones and very few very good ones, does not impress me much.

Actually I think that this is the deciding factor in this discussion for most people. Despite the fact that Joe did have over 20 consecutive defences of his World Title ( and that's an outstanding achievement make no mistake about it) I don't think this should be the tipping-point.

Whereas a genuine World title winner in 2 weight classes, beating an established, albiet diminishing great fighter (Tzyzu) beating some good names and then skyrocketting to 'bar', taking on the No1 and No2 P4P fighters, at their peaks for the mythical P4P Title.

Actually I remember when Hatton defeated Collazo. He was given massive slander from the BoxRec public (I remember it well) and some felt that Collazo was robbed... Whereas I scored it a clean Hatton victory by 3 rounds.

As does his questionable win against Robin Reid (I thought he lost that fight) and both he and Warren never ever entertained the idea of a rematch. Ever.

Absolutely, y'know even the most dedicated Clazaghe supporters have to admit that Reid give him a frightful scare.
However, opposite to you mate, I scored the fight 1 round to Calzaghe 9if I remember correctly, I haven't wacthed it in a while).

[Crease]

Personally, when comparing the two I have to say Calzaghe's career is better. Fighting and losing to two of the best lb4lb fighters doesn't mean much when comparing careers, he may have fought them but he lost too. Hopkins was pound for pound top five when Calzaghe fought him as well. Personally, I just think Calzaghe's best career wins are better than Hatton's best career wins, that is the easiest way of looking at them in my opinion. If you want to compare them as boxers there is only one winner, Calzaghe by a fair decent way.

I honestly don't think it is that cut n' dry. I actually think that it is a close call between them.

It might surprise some of you (follwoing my comments about Joe) that I was a big Calzaghe fan, just as I equally liked Ricky Hatton. But Joe shouldn't be that far ahead, honestly.