Calzaghe vs. Hagler at 168...

[observer1]

If old Hopkins can put up what was essentially a draw against Joe.

Then imo, Hagler UD.

[hhaehre]

I like Hagler by tko before the 10th. I don't really think it will be very close either, Hagler just seems like too much. It's not like I think Calzaghe is average either but I really don't believe he has seen anything like a prime Hagler.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I can see Hagler winning certainly, but he wasnt in any form an outstanding puncher, and Calzaghe had excellent whiskers and first-class cardio. This is a distance figggt 10/10.

Jay, watch the Jones KD again closely and tell me what you see.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Hagler wasn't an outstanding puncher in any way? You've lost your mind. He wasn't a completely devastating one shot guy, but he had every punch in the book and threw them all to kill.I'm not certain, but I don't think Antuofermo or hamsho had ever been down before Marvin stopped them.

[Goodnight, Irene]

To call Hagler an outstanding puncher, yes, I find that off the mark. The guy goes fifteen rounds with a fat, over-the-hill Duran, but he might KO Calzaghe at 168? No chance, none. Calzaghe had great conditioning, was the bigger man, and had fine whiskers. I also think Hagler would further be struggling for the KO on account of Calzaghe's absurdly busy work-rate.

Hagler's a better fighter IMO, certainly achieved a TONNE more, but this isnt the best style clash for him. Certainly, I find the, "Hopkins was old and Calzaghe barely beat him, so..." line of logic some here have used rather misguided, but he can certainly win a decision over Calzaghe. Im not saying he couldnt hurt Calzaghe either, BTW.

He certainly will NOT, however, be winning inside the distance. Theres as much chance of that as there is Calzaghe stopping him --- zero.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'm not arguing that he stops him, I picked a decision myself. But to say Hagler wasn't an outstanding puncher is outlandish. Not stopping Duran is a black mark? Roberto would be a better defender than Calzaghe with a blind fold on. You just brought up the only guy he didn't stop between Vito 1 & Leonard. That's quite convenient.

The only guy i've ever seen not bothered by marvin's shots was Bennie Briscoe and hagler quickly decided to use his Boxing skills against that beast. But he stopped many guys with iron chins so to give him zero chance at stopping Joe is silly. He was a tremendous finisher, one of the best I've ever seen. It usually took a few rounds, he wasn't a Foreman kind of monster. But he knocked out top flight competition through his entire career. Zero chance is laughable.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Yes, the Duran fight is a black mark against him. Monzon would have MURDERED Duran. Very few of the best Middles ever would have been even after 12 rounds with that Duran. I have always said that bout was a preview of the Leonard disaster --- an opponent who Hagler should have, in all fairness, absolutely steamrolled, but choked pretty badly against.

I dont get how Hagler is an outstanding puncher, truly. Thats a Hearns, a Jackson, a Ketchel, a Foreman. Hagler was a good puncher doubtless --- great? Not IMO. Outstanding? Please.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He did choke a bit against Duran, but he still won 10 rounds in my estimation. You said he wasn't an outstanding puncher in any form. If you would have said one shot, I'd give it to you. But he was a very strong puncher with outstanding combinations, outstanding accuracy and he was an outstanding finisher when he got his man in trouble. No matter what you think might have occurred in hypothetical fights with others against Duran, there is concrete visual evidence against you here. And a lot of it.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I should re-word. I meant in terms of power, but I can see how youd think I was commenting on his accuracy or timing offensively. For the record, I wasnt. Those were two of Hagler's best attributes. I meant to convey Hagler was in no way outstanding in the context of power.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I should re-word. I meant in terms of power, but I can see how youd think I was commenting on his accuracy or timing offensively. For the record, I wasnt. Those were two of Hagler's best attributes. I meant to convey Hagler was in no way outstanding in the context of power.

Those other aspects play more of a role in stoppages than brute force. If that's the measure of outstanding than there aren't many who have ever lived. If you agree that he could hurt him, then he has a chance to stop him. Marvin rarely let anyone off the hook.

But yeah, he wasn't as vicious a puncher as his record indicates. All kinds of misconceptions with him, a lot of people think he was a plodding brawler when he was a master boxer.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Do you think Calzaghe's output hurts Hagler's chances of a stoppage, Saad? I do, but a good few people would take the view that jazzercising slap game is something Hagler would be completely unphased by, win or lose.

I tend to see it disrupting Hagler's rhythm.

[Ezzard]

It’s a hard fight for both men.

Calzaghe would be a hard fight for anyone because of his sheer volume. And this was also his defence. He threw so much his opponents had to walk into the blizzard to throw their own shorts back. Not dissimilar to how Leonard beat Hagler.

What Calzaghe didn’t like was an accurate counter-puncher. Hagler is a bit more aggressive than Hopkins which will help Calzaghe but even so he’s going to be fighting the hardest man he ever fought.

My guess is that this would be a disputed decision either way.

If its scheduled for 15, as it should be, it might help Hagler, as Calzaghe never went 15.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Do you think Calzaghe's output hurts Hagler's chances of a stoppage, Saad? I do, but a good few people would take the view that jazzercising slap game is something Hagler would be completely unphased by, win or lose.

I tend to see it disrupting Hagler's rhythm.

I don't like marvin's chances of stopping Joe. But the more Joe punches the more opportunities are there for counters. My guess is that Calzaghe's output would be down due to the pressure hagler brought and marvin's jab. He obviously would still be active, but i don't think as much so.

[hhaehre]

Hagler actually liked to be the counterpuncher and that might be a good idea against Calzaghe. When Calzaghe fought Hopkins he got tagget with quite a few counters and unlike the aging Hopkins Hagler would not slow down in the later rounds. Hagler was a very compact puncher and I think he could and would hurt Calzaghe.

[Syntax Error]

This one is hard for me as Hagler never fought above MW & Calzaghe would probably have fought at 175 if the 168lb division hadn't of been created.

Obviously, pound-for-pound, Hagler is greater IMO, but Calzaghe should never be underestimated & you have to factor in that he would be the naturally bigger man.

All in all, I see a distance fight, as NOBODY is knocking out Hagler & Calzaghe proved that he could get up & win fights later in his career.

I believe it would be quite close, as both had unbelievable stamina. I also think Marvin was a terribly slow starter at times & that would probably lead to him being behind at the halfway point.

Hagler would have to come on strong in the second half, but it would not be easy, as Calzaghe never stops punching, but I'd fancy Hagler to pull it out in the 2nd half & eek out a very narrow decision.

[boxerbob]

i think hagler is in a completely different level to anything calzaghe ever fought , even at 168 hagler wins , i do think hagler would weigh 164-165 for the fight

slaps vs hard hard punches , im sorry but calzaghe take a beating and loses on points

lacy , kessler and hopkins who i thought beat calzaghe by 1 point is not hagler , hopkins is a great fighter but has a completley different style from hagler.

hagler doesnt take a step back all night , thats what wins him the fight as its usually calzaghe that pushed his opponents back

Are you saying you thought Lacy and Kessler beat Calzaghe?

no only hopkins

[gilgamesh]

This would be a hard fought fight for both men, if it's a 12 rounder I think Calzaghe is able to outwork Hagler just enough to get the decision. If it's 15, I think those extra 3 rounds all go Hagler's way and he gets the decision. No walk in the park for either guy though, that's for sure.

[Jaywheel]

Jay, watch the Jones KD again closely and tell me what you see.

A brush of a forearm from a shot fighter putting him on his ass?

Anyways, I'm calling an Hagler decision but I will write off a Calzaghe KO as a possible outcome where I won't for Hagler.

[Yes We Can]

Jay, watch the Jones KD again closely and tell me what you see.

A brush of a forearm from a shot fighter putting him on his ass? :wink:

Anyways, I'm calling an Hagler decision but I will write off a Calzaghe KO as a possible outcome where I won't for Hagler.

There were 2 shot fighters in the ring that night. People gloss over the fact Joe was also removed from his own best when he faced Hopkins and Jones. He doesn't go down against either in his prime, neither does he win both in his prime.

Against Hagler i see a very tight decision for Hagler over 15, but Joe gets the nod if its 12. Theres no way he keeps that workrate for an extra 9 minutes, no way in hell.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I could see it being said Calzaghe was a little past his best by the time he faced Hopkins and Jones --- maybe.

Funtime, you are absolutely having us on to say Calzaghe was shot at that time. Thats indefensibly stupid.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Agreed Destroyer.

[Syntax Error]

This would be a hard fought fight for both men, if it's a 12 rounder I think Calzaghe is able to outwork Hagler just enough to get the decision. If it's 15, I think those extra 3 rounds all go Hagler's way and he gets the decision. No walk in the park for either guy though, that's for sure.

Do you think Calzaghe would fair so badly over 15? I always thought of all the modern fighters over the last 5/10 years he had one of the best engines around, always thought he'd have faired well over 15 instead of 12. Maybe not against Hagler, I just mean in general.

Spot on.

I think that Calzaghe has got the best stamina I've seen on a fighter, probably since Hagler, possibly since before Hagler.

Calzaghe had an amazing engine & I think 15 rounds would have been right up his street.

[Roco]

I think Hagler could get the stoppage. He puts accurate solid punches together like nobody Calzaghe has ever faced and I think he could hurt Calzaghe and get him going.

There is no chance of Calzaghe even coming close to a stoppage IMO. I can't even remember a top level opponent whom he manage to stop.

[Crease]

Hagler.