Joe Calzaghe v Jeff Lacy

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 08 Aug 2005, 07:14

Isn't Calzaghe fighting in September still? Taken off the Schelde on his fight record here.

BBC still think he's fighting Scott Pemberton.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/4130098.stm

Either way If Calzaghe Vs Lacy happens it should be live on ITV!

Go Calzaghe.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 08 Aug 2005, 07:17

Slappy v TBA.

I think a third meeting with Veit should be considered - could be one of the epic boxing trilogies in Sicknote's mind.

How exactly is he going to fight 2 fights in 2 months - when has he ever done anything like that before?

The September fight will go ahead but something will happen to scupper the talked about bout with Left Hook - I can see it panning out like that.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Aug 2005, 08:55

This is what makes me truly doubtful about this happening. I just cannot see Calzaghe fighting two fights so close together. I mean, he barely manages two fights a year now.

I have a feeling this fight will fall through in the next couple of months.

People will blame allegedly, but I believe Frank is getting exasperated with Joe. No promoter likes their fighters continually pulling out of big fights, it makes them look bad. Warren stated earlier this year, that the onus was on Joe and that the fight with Lacy was there for the taking.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 08 Aug 2005, 09:05

Lacys performance against Reid was superb, I know Robin didn't box to his best and is on a downhill slope IMO, but Lacy managed to negate Reids style excellently and this sets up a fantastic showdown with our Joe.

I'm looking forward to this fight already, I'm more optimistic about this fight happening than most, although I don't think it'll happen first Sat in Nov.

Its a real 50-50 fight IMO after Saturday nights performance and I reckon possibly Joes hardest fight to date

Come on Joe!!!

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 08 Aug 2005, 09:12

I'm no fan of Joe but my gut feeling is that this fight will happen this year. Hopefully 5th November as reported.

I also think Lacy's hand speed being equal to Joe's (without the slaps) will bring the world a new number 1 at supermiddle.

Infact I'm already looking forward to seeing Lacy take on the Danish trio of Kessler, Larsen and Markussen....not to mention our own Carl Froch down the line hopefully. These names and possible clashes make me feel excited about the Super middles again.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Aug 2005, 10:04

Yep, you don't really get the impression Lacy is going to duck anyone.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 08 Aug 2005, 10:09

The Danes are a good bunch, Kessler is about ready to stake his claim as Super Middleweight No. 1 despite all the talk of Calzaghe and Lacy, he is a good fighter. Larsen is good as well but is having problems with his manager i think which are keeping him out of the ring, ability wise he is good though, not seen as much of Markussen to comment although rumour has it he had been offered a pittance to fight Calzaghe in the Lacy warm up.

Calzaghe-Lacy is an interesting proposition, i just want to see them tear into each other in the ring. What with all the ultra pro-american stuff before Lacy-Reid? Never seen that from Lacy before. It was a bit cheesy.

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 08 Aug 2005, 10:09

I thought Lacy performed very well, but Reid performance was poor.
Reid should retire now.No point him performing like that again.
He was unlucky with the first knock down though.

Lacy v Calzaghe will be good while it lasts but the chances of it happening are slim imo.

What the point of Joe fighting a bum in September this is poor preparation for a Lacy fight.

mickeybeard · Post by **mickeybeard** » 08 Aug 2005, 10:12

What's happened to Larsen - is he still boxing? He was on the wrong end of an iffy decision vs Ottke, came back to beat Haussler and then fell off the face of the earth.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Aug 2005, 10:13

Well, he's been inactive of late, so maybe feels he needs a tuneup, but I don't think fighting a patsy will prepare him to face a beast like Lacy.

Calzaghe should use his boxing skills, which are considerable to beat Lacy.

Lacy has to be kept off balance. It was noticable that in the 5th and 6th Reid started using some lateral movement and Lacy couldn't get set. The problem was, Reid wasn't throwing any jabs out at all, so it was to no avail.

Working the angles and jabbing is the way to do it against Lacy, once you stand and trade it's a matter of time before Lacy's strength takes over. He also has fast hands for a big man, and his combinations are impressive for someone with such a thick frame.

Lacy is far from unbeatable, but I don't think anyone is going to win by standing and trading with him, he's a tank.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 08 Aug 2005, 10:22

mickeybeard wrote:What's happened to Larsen - is he still boxing? He was on the wrong end of an iffy decision vs Ottke, came back to beat Haussler and then fell off the face of the earth.

Like i said i think he is having contractual problems, Freiheit knows more about it than me.

I agree with James, if you stand and trade with Lacy you are asking for trouble but if you move and jab him he finds it hard to get set.

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 08 Aug 2005, 10:31

mickeybeard wrote:What's happened to Larsen - is he still boxing? He was on the wrong end of an iffy decision vs Ottke, came back to beat Haussler and then fell off the face of the earth.

He is in contract with his manager. Larsen is one of the few danes that doesnt have a promotor contract but he is still managed by Team Palle. Larsen was surposed to fight Siaca for the WBA belt but got an injury and instead of postponing the fight for a few weeks Team Palle gave the fight to Kessler. Larsen got pissed and wants out of his contract. Larsen is a very proud person and if things doesnt go by his head he wont do it, so he is now suing Team Palle to get out of the contract. Sauerland and Universum have expressed interest in signing him IF he gets out of his contract.

It was the same problem that kept Dennis Holbæk Pedersen out of the ring for a long time. The matter ended in court, but just before the verdict they settled so that Holbæk could buy himself out of the contract for 10 pence. The speculation behind that is that Team Palles contracts might not be legal according to danish contract laws so Palle are not risking to get out in the open.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 08 Aug 2005, 10:35

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Lacy is far from unbeatable, but I don't think anyone is going to win by standing and trading with him, he's a tank.

Agreed, its suicide going toe-to-toe with with him. As you say the combinations he landed on Robin when close in were excellent (handspeed, power and accuracy), but theres no way Joe will be a static target like Robin was

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 08 Aug 2005, 10:43

And Calzaghe will be far more dangerous with his own punches. Reid was so bad he barely got anything on target.

I think Calzaghe will try and hurt Lacy as quickly as possible, and I don't personally believe he'd be risking everything to do it.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 08 Aug 2005, 11:12

Kilburn wrote:And Calzaghe will be far more dangerous with his own punches.

I think Calzaghe will try and hurt Lacy as quickly as possible, and I don't personally believe he'd be risking everything to do it.

Is it something they put in your water that makes you so delusional, or are you just naturally so?

Same question goes out to Max Molyneux

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Aug 2005, 11:50

Calzaghe at his best was better than Lacy by some way, faster hands, better variety and certainly better footwork.

However, how much of that Calzaghe remains is the big question. He hasn't looked special for some time, and the fact that Mitchell and Salem both dropped him heavily is a worry. Calzaghe has a good chin, but so did Reid, and even though he wasn't hurt, the force of the shots forced him to seek respite on the canvas.

Calzaghe has good orthodox boxing skills, and he will need to keep the stick out.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 08 Aug 2005, 11:54

I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility for Calzaghe to still produce his finest performance yet. Against Mger whatshisname he looked as keen and sharp as he ever has. That was only last year.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 08 Aug 2005, 13:27

The biggest problem with lacy is that he doesn`t offer much of a target unless you take chances.
And a jab isn`t going to keep a strong fighter like him away, to stand in front of him hands up is little use either because his strength will wear you down.

An Ingle type of fighter who`d step to the side and come up with the shots would be perfect to handle him, but Calzaghe is always there in front of the opponent, he may be cute with his punches now and again but his movement is just not there and sooner rather than later Lacy would bounce one off his chin and over-power him.

For me Kessler would be the easier of the two fighters for Calzaghe because he`s more orthodox in his approach, but even that wouldn`t be a formality

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 08 Aug 2005, 16:26

I'd give Mundine a good shot at UD'ing Lacy. Having looked at Lacy's record I see Richard 'The Alien' Grant took him the distance. Grant had been coming off two fights where in the first he had had his jaw broken and was knocked out cold, and in the second he was stopped early by Echols (who Mundine successfully picked off for a UD).

If Grant can take Lacy the distance at such a physically and emotionally fragile part of his career, I can see Mundine giving him hell - given Grant's style is a lower quality archetype of Mundine's. Of course, the chin could well be the equalizer.

Does anyone know what rounds it was that Grant went down in? Lacy is heavy handed but not a huge puncher - that is obvious to anyone who knows how to spot a big puncher - and the 'left hook' moniker seems more to do with his surname than anything else. It was actually his right hand that was most notable against Robin... but even that vicious right uppercut didn't have him properly concussed (he was winking at Brian about 2 seconds after).

The Lacy right is something to worry about in a Calzaghe fight, though. He has always ate right hands (Woodhall, Reid, Eubank), but in recent times he has been wide open for them: Salem aside, even Veit was catching him with ease a few times in the rematch. Even if he is able to take the odd shot from Lacy, I don't think he would do any better at standing up to the accumulation than Reid did.

Saying that, Lacy is obviously too musclebound to last the distance in a tough fight with Calzaghe's high workrate, but can Joe - at this age, and given his recent form - not only maintain that sort of workrate but get to the later rounds without giving too much away? I don't think he can.

And if Lacy does beat him I certainly won't shed any tears. OK, the 'born in the USA' spiel and snarling face are cheesy, but give me a 168lb champion who is prepared to fight anyone, anywhere, over the likes of Calzaghe and Ottke any day.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 08 Aug 2005, 16:44

Manos de Oro wrote:I'd give Mundine a good shot at UD'ing Lacy. Having looked at Lacy's record I see Richard 'The Alien' Grant took him the distance. Grant had been coming off two fights where in the first he had had his jaw broken and was knocked out cold, and in the second he was stopped early by Echols (who Mundine successfully picked off for a UD).

If Grant can take Lacy the distance at such a physically and emotionally fragile part of his career, I can see Mundine giving him hell - given Grant's style is a lower quality archetype of Mundine's. Of course, the chin could well be the equalizer.

Does anyone know what rounds it was that Grant went down in? Lacy is heavy handed but not a huge puncher - that is obvious to anyone who knows how to spot a big puncher - and the 'left hook' moniker seems more to do with his surname than anything else. It was actually his right hand that was most notable against Robin... but even that vicious right uppercut didn't have him properly concussed (he was winking at Brian about 2 seconds after).

The Lacy right is something to worry about in a Calzaghe fight, though. He has always ate right hands (Woodhall, Reid, Eubank), but in recent times he has been wide open for them: Salem aside, even Veit was catching him with ease a few times in the rematch. Even if he is able to take the odd shot from Lacy, I don't think he would do any better at standing up to the accumulation than Reid did.

Saying that, Lacy is obviously too musclebound to last the distance in a tough fight with Calzaghe's high workrate, but can Joe - at this age, and given his recent form - not only maintain that sort of workrate but get to the later rounds without giving too much away? I don't think he can.

And if Lacy does beat him I certainly won't shed any tears. OK, the 'born in the USA' spiel and snarling face are cheesy, but give me a 168lb champion who is prepared to fight anyone, anywhere, over the likes of Calzaghe and Ottke any day.

I dont see how you can say Lacy is not a big puncher - what do you mean its obvious to anyone who can spot one?

He has just dropped a guy with a rock solid chin 4 times. In fact people were saying on here that Reid has one of the best chins in the world last week so if Lacy is not a big puncher on the back of that performance I'll never know how to spot one!!

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 08 Aug 2005, 16:57

nickd wrote:I dont see how you can say Lacy is not a big puncher - what do you mean its obvious to anyone who can spot one?

He has just dropped a guy with a rock solid chin 4 times. In fact people were saying on here that Reid has one of the best chins in the world last week so if Lacy is not a big puncher on the back of that performance I'll never know how to spot one!!

Sorry nick, that statement sounds pretenious - which wasn't meant.

Things to look for in a big puncher - speed and snap are about the same high level. The puncher doesn't have to be musclebound like Lacy (in fact, that's a disadvantage), they just have to marry technique with speed. For example, look at the way Bob Foster delivers a left hook and the way Lacy does it. There's just that extra oomph missing in Lacy's punch.

Records also can tell a lot about punch power - looking at opponent's history, weight history, whether they have been KO'd or TKO'd, etc.

As for the fight on Saturday: three things were putting Reid down more than singularly punch power:

* lack of an escape route

* accumulation

* confidence took a hell of a blow after the first, illegal, knockdown

* the high pitch of the away crowd's voices when he first took the count

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 08 Aug 2005, 17:08

Manos de Oro wrote:
nickd wrote:I dont see how you can say Lacy is not a big puncher - what do you mean its obvious to anyone who can spot one?

He has just dropped a guy with a rock solid chin 4 times. In fact people were saying on here that Reid has one of the best chins in the world last week so if Lacy is not a big puncher on the back of that performance I'll never know how to spot one!!
Sorry nick, that statement sounds pretenious - which wasn't meant.

Things to look for in a big puncher - speed and snap are about the same high level. The puncher doesn't have to be musclebound like Lacy (in fact, that's a disadvantage), they just have to marry technique with speed. For example, look at the way Bob Foster delivers a left hook and the way Lacy does it. There's just that extra oomph missing in Lacy's punch.

Records also can tell a lot about punch power - looking at opponent's history, weight history, whether they have been KO'd or TKO'd, etc.

As for the fight on Saturday: three things were putting Reid down more than singularly punch power:

* lack of an escape route

* accumulation

* confidence took a hell of a blow after the first, illegal, knockdown

* the high pitch of the away crowd's voices when he first took the count

Of course it was an accumulation but he was hurt several times and I've never really seen him hurt before. Considering how good his chin is that tells me Lacy is a big hitter. I think his technique is pretty good to be honest, and he has strength and power too. Lacy can only get better from here, but for a guy with 20 fights he is pretty well devleoped.

RobD · Post by **RobD** » 08 Aug 2005, 17:11

I agree Lacy is not a big puncher. Reid while going down never looked in trouble. Lacy is more of an accumulation guy IMO. Very winnable fight for Joe as long as he doesn't stay in the trenches to long with Lacy. Syd Vanderpool had him under control until he chose to stand and trade.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 08 Aug 2005, 17:18

By the way I think Lacy would have Mundine knocked out for about a week if they fought.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 08 Aug 2005, 17:18

RobD wrote:I agree Lacy is not a big puncher. Reid while going down never looked in trouble. Lacy is more of an accumulation guy IMO. Very winnable fight for Joe as long as he doesn't stay in the trenches to long with Lacy. Syd Vanderpool had him under control until he chose to stand and trade.

Never looked in trouble? He was hurt badly a couple of times.