Is it me?

[clubberlang]

I’m a very proud Englishman, but I’m becoming bitter, our fighter’s management teams seem to be doing our boys a massive disservice by constantly accepting world title fights in the other guy’s back yard.

Check this out

Khan vs Peterson
Chisora vs Helenius
Murray vs Sturm
Macklin vs Sturm
Afolabi vs Huck
Rhodes vs Alvarez
Barker vs Martinez
Hatton vs Alvarez
Magee vs Bute
Munroe vs Nishioka
Murray vs Rios

Some of the above where outright robbed, some fought much bigger men on fight night (Murray/Hatton), some got there world title shots 3 to 4 fights before they were ready & some where given mission impossible fights against elite world champions in the champions home town.

Seriously what is going on, the reason we aren’t getting any luck is because the management teams of these fighters are accepting fights in which the deck is massively stacked against our boys before we even start.

[Newport Daz]

Other than Kahn Vs Peterson, all the other British fighters were challengers and were going up against "the star." When British fighters are in the driver's seat, they get home advantage.

[twenty six]

You have to understand that Champions dictate terms not Challengers.
The only way this changes is if the financials make it more profitable to come over here, and sadly the revenue streams for boxing in the UK are reducing - tv etc.
Even then, it is for the Champion to decide if he's prepared to give up home advantage.
How you can blame Management is an insult.
If you won't go to the Champs back yard you'll never be a Champ.
Take a look at the venues for our World Champs over the last 5 years.
How many British World Champs have defended overseas ?

[clubberlang]

When allegedly held sway we could always lure champions to these shores, because Frank understood the importance of hometown advantage, the crowd can give a fighter that extra push & you’re not going to get screwed.

Seriously British management teams seem to be looking for the quick paydays rather than to get their fighters the right opportunity.

At least 4 of the fights mentioned would have gone the way of the englishman on these shores, plus Froch would have taken Kessler.

Speaking of Froch he's fighting Ward away from home again next week, wonder how that ones going to go

[clubberlang]

Also I know champions hold sway, but it’s the fact that every single title opportunity our boys get is abroad + even our champs are fighting abroad.

[danfoster]

You have to understand that Champions dictate terms not Challengers.
The only way this changes is if the financials make it more profitable to come over here, and sadly the revenue streams for boxing in the UK are reducing - tv etc.
Even then, it is for the Champion to decide if he's prepared to give up home advantage.
How you can blame Management is an insult.
If you won't go to the Champs back yard you'll never be a Champ.
Take a look at the venues for our World Champs over the last 5 years.
How many British World Champs have defended overseas ?

I don't know how you can call it an 'insult' mate - he raises a fair point when you look at that list.

[earsjohn]

I think it's refreshing that we have a whole load of guys that are willing to chase the tricky fights and not just take a load of easy defences in front of a home crowd.

Take Chisora for example - he's come away from a loss (albeit in the eyes of two men only) with a top 5 rated world level guy with his own reputation enhanced. M Hatton, Barker, Macklin and M Murray have all come back win less but with a higher profile and respect for the efforts they put in. Compare to the likes of Cleverly, Brook and DeGale who have been accused of avoiding risks and being content to "milk" the home gate advantage.

[Coco]

To put things simply Khan is with GBP and was the home fighter. FW will give his fighters like Lockett, Williams and Jennings the difficult assignments they had because they are big paydays, paydays they would not get with the WBU.
If FW has fighters like Hatton selling lots of tickets at home he will bring in the usual suspects because it is good business. Essentially he is maximising his fighters earning potential.

[earsjohn]

When allegedly held sway we could always lure champions to these shores, because Frank understood the importance of hometown advantage, the crowd can give a fighter that extra push & you’re not going to get screwed.

Seriously British management teams seem to be looking for the quick paydays rather than to get their fighters the right opportunity.

At least 4 of the fights mentioned would have gone the way of the englishman on these shores, plus Froch would have taken Kessler.

Speaking of Froch he's fighting Ward away from home again next week, wonder how that ones going to go

But how many of the fights mentioned would have taken place if it was UK or nothing?

Sturm and Huck won't leave Germany
Martinez, Bute and Alvarez would have found willing opponents if our guys turned them down
Murray was probably offered to Rios as part of the deal for TV rights

I'd much prefer to have watched the likes of Helenius v Chisora and Nishioka v Munroe in their backyards, than Chisora v Zack Page and Munroe v A. N. Other teak-tough Ghanaian in the UK.

[Datsue]

@OP: Utter bollocks. Our blokes are fighting a much higher standard of opponent lately, hence why they are losing so often.

The allegedly-tastic "glory days" to which you refer involved getting a third-rate South American swinger in for a WBF title, & it was held at a leisure centre whilst we were told it was "A massive fight on the world stage". All the lads you mentioned (Chisora apart, that was the EBU) fought for proper world titles, against proper boys. The only really questionable results are the Chisora decision, the fact Murray had to fight a welterweight & the fact that Hatton should not have been in a world title fight at all.

PS: Kessler would've still beaten Froch had they fought in Nottingham, as long as it wasn't G0mez, Ian John Lewis & you doing the judging. Kessler's right hands to the body had more to do with the outcome than dodgy judging or home advantage.

[earsjohn]

@OP: Utter bollocks. Our blokes are fighting a much higher standard of opponent lately, hence why they are losing so often.

The allegedly-tastic "glory days" to which you refer involved getting a third-rate South American swinger in for a WBF title, & it was held at a leisure centre whilst we were told it was "A massive fight on the world stage". All the lads you mentioned (Chisora apart, that was the EBU) fought for proper world titles, against proper boys. The only really questionable results are the Chisora decision, the fact Murray had to fight a welterweight & the fact that Hatton should not have been in a world title fight at all.

PS: Kessler would've still beaten Froch had they fought in Nottingham, as long as it wasn't G0mez, Ian John Lewis & you doing the judging. Kessler's right hands to the body had more to do with the outcome than dodgy judging or home advantage.

Murray wasn't fighting for a proper world title. Rios is the WBA Lightweight Champion. Marquez is the WBA Super Champion. Rios is as proper a champion as Povetkin is at Heavyweight. Proper fighter? Yes. Proper title? No.

Hatton v Alvarez is questionable in that it was for a vacant title and Hatton had never fought at the weight.

[Horse]

Khan vs Peterson
Chisora vs Helenius
Murray vs Sturm
Macklin vs Sturm
Afolabi vs Huck
Rhodes vs Alvarez
Barker vs Martinez
Hatton vs Alvarez
Magee vs Bute
Munroe vs Nishioka
Murray vs Rios

Most of the British fighters came out of those fights with enhanced reputations and are now in stronger positions because they took those away fights.

[twenty six]

Dan,
Maybe insult was too strong mate but the initial post blamed fighter's Management.
What more could any of the Managers in the list of fighters mentioned have done ?
Managers don't put the purse money up - Promotors do.
Would Alvarez have come over here to fight Rhodes ?
No.
Would any Promotor in the UK been able to put the finances together to do it anyway
No.
Did Rhodes want the chance ?
Yes.
Were the terms attractive enough ?
Yes.
It's all about risk and reward.

[Horse]

PS: Kessler would've still beaten Froch had they fought in Nottingham, as long as it wasn't G0mez, Ian John Lewis & you doing the judging. Kessler's right hands to the body had more to do with the outcome than dodgy judging or home advantage.

There is a good chance Froch would have been given the decision had the fight been in Nottingham. It was a close fight and home fighters tend to win close fights.

[Datsue]

Murray wasn't fighting for a proper world title. Rios is the WBA Lightweight Champion. Marquez is the WBA Super Champion. Rios is as proper a champion as Povetkin is at Heavyweight. Proper fighter? Yes. Proper title? No.

Hatton v Alvarez is questionable in that it was for a vacant title and Hatton had never fought at the weight.

Mea maxima culpa. I thought JMM had been stripped already. The machinations of the WBA & their title-go-round boggle my tiny mind, & I used to be the kind of nerd who could list every world champ in all seventeen divisions. That was about a decade ago, mind.

[Counter-puncher]

PS: Kessler would've still beaten Froch had they fought in Nottingham, as long as it wasn't G0mez, Ian John Lewis & you doing the judging. Kessler's right hands to the body had more to do with the outcome than dodgy judging or home advantage.

[Glyn Leach]

We haven't got the money to bring them here, TV isn't paying enough at the moment. This may change when the new Sky deals come in, but even the likes of Rios, not a megastar, wouldn't get out of bed for the £100,000 Sky are thought to pay per show minus a purse for the challenger and the cost of an undercard. £50,000 OK Bam Bam?

[clubberlang]

Right ok; let me try to get across what I’m getting at.

In the case of Ryan Rhodes (a guy who was game but outclassed against Alvarez)

Prior to the fight Ryan was very highly ranked (I think even the Ring Magazine had him at either 5 or 6)

Now the WBO crown was vacant at the time (or soon would be).

Baysangurov recently picked it by beating Mike Miranda in a round.

Rhodes has fought for the WBO belt twice, so if I’m a Rhodes management I get him the fight for the WBO crown against either Miranda (who he kills) or Baysangurov (who chances are he beats), neither fighter has sizable backing so the fight takes place in England, Rhodes wins the belt and suddenly a fight with Alvarez is a unification match.

Alvarez been a confident so and so would be open to travelling to England to pick up another belt, so chances are we could get the fight in England, since Ryan is at last a world champion in his mind (if not ours) his confidence will be soaring, throw in home town advantage and Rhodes has a much better chance of winning plus he defiantly pick up more money.

[TJ77]

Right ok; let me try to get across what I’m getting at.

In the case of Ryan Rhodes (a guy who was game but outclassed against Alvarez)

Prior to the fight Ryan was very highly ranked (I think even the Ring Magazine had him at either 5 or 6)

Now the WBO crown was vacant at the time (or soon would be).

Baysangurov recently picked it by beating Mike Miranda in a round.

Rhodes has fought for the WBO belt twice, so if I’m a Rhodes management I get him the fight for the WBO crown against either Miranda (who he kills) or Baysangurov (who chances are he beats), neither fighter has sizable backing so the fight takes place in England, Rhodes wins the belt and suddenly a fight with Alvarez is a unification match.

Alvarez been a confident so and so would be open to travelling to England to pick up another belt, so chances are we could get the fight in England, since Ryan is at last a world champion in his mind (if not ours) his confidence will be soaring, throw in home town advantage and Rhodes has a much better chance of winning plus he defiantly pick up more money.

If it was that easy surely they would have done that ? A fighter of Rhodes calibre and experience has considerate imput into the route they go you would imagine.

[Quixall]

I think the whole premise of this thread lay in this "home town" logic. If we could guarantee fair and consistent officiating at events both at home and abroad, then that woud go a long way towards giving fighters the confidence to go abroad as a challenger or a champion. Then it will be strictly down to the finances and if a champion from abroad can make more money fighting in the uk, or a Britsh champion can make more money fighting abroad then so be it, because they could guarantee a fight that would be officiated correctly. If on the current scene a fighter takes a world title challenge at short notice, then that is up to them, but some fights that have been accepted have baffled me in recent months such as Barker - Martinez, where Barker was clearly not ready for a fighter like Martinez and Rhodes - Canelo, where surely a little more patience would have delivered Ryan a more ready made opponent and a possible Home or European tie. I can remember FW commenting that he wouldn't have taken that fight for Rhodes and i agree, but if he wants the fight and his management want it, then you can't be sympathetic when the obvious happens, ie, an almost certain loss from the outset.

[danfoster]

Dan,
Maybe insult was too strong mate but the initial post blamed fighter's Management.
What more could any of the Managers in the list of fighters mentioned have done ?
Managers don't put the purse money up - Promotors do.
Would Alvarez have come over here to fight Rhodes ?
No.
Would any Promotor in the UK been able to put the finances together to do it anyway
No.
Did Rhodes want the chance ?
Yes.
Were the terms attractive enough ?
Yes.
It's all about risk and reward.

I agree with the poster who says British boxing is better for this turn of events - i just think it's an interesting and true observation that more and more Brits are going overseas. Clearly, the answer lies in Sky not bankrolling to the same extent.

I'd much rather see tough fights like these than Brit fighter v foreign import. In my opinion, Frank and the team were sometimes guilty of drafting in overmatched foreign imports as opponents and being too protective of their fighters, to the detriment of the quality of the show.

I also think that Rhodes deserves credit for taking that fight and completely agree that the fight made sense in every way. In fact, at the time i thought he had a good chance of winning as Alvarez looked very ordinary against Hatton.

[ourkid1984]

The only bad thing about Brits fighting abroad is the stupid time they are on, unless its in europe.

People can't really moan about home town decisions when they want these fights in this country because lets face it, it won't really make it a fair fight will it? It will just mean that some of our fights will win an unfair home town decision.

To get home town fights the boxer needs to;

1 - deserve it
2 - want it
3 - be popular enough

In the case of Khan it was his own fault as he wanted to build his career in the US to grab as much money as he could and has become so big headed that he must of thought he could beat Peterson so easy Peterson's home town advantage would not of mattered.

I'm sure the others are happy enough with what they have achieved with their loss.

[Tomasino]

I’m a very proud Englishman, but I’m becoming bitter, our fighter’s management teams seem to be doing our boys a massive disservice by constantly accepting world title fights in the other guy’s back yard.

Check this out

Khan vs Peterson
Chisora vs Helenius
Murray vs Sturm
Macklin vs Sturm
Afolabi vs Huck
Rhodes vs Alvarez
Barker vs Martinez
Hatton vs Alvarez
Magee vs Bute
Munroe vs Nishioka
Murray vs Rios

Some of the above where outright robbed, some fought much bigger men on fight night (Murray/Hatton), some got there world title shots 3 to 4 fights before they were ready & some where given mission impossible fights against elite world champions in the champions home town.

Seriously what is going on, the reason we aren’t getting any luck is because the management teams of these fighters are accepting fights in which the deck is massively stacked against our boys before we even start.

This has to be the daftest non troll post I've seen on here, "our boys" LOL!!

[twenty six]

Clubber,
If only life was that simple.
First of all, Rhodes was not in the WBO rankings.
I can't tell you why - you will have to ask them.
Secondly, the WBO had already sanctioned Konecny to fight for the vacant title, so again no opportunity there, because there were others in their rankings due to get a shot.
I can't tell you why Konecny didn't fight for it.
However he is no longer EBU Champion and Ryan fights for it early next year against Rabchenko.
Thirdly you will note that the WBO do tend to sway in a certain Promotor's direction when it comes to sanctioning UK fighters.
At the time Rhodes fought for the WBO said Promotor was his Promotor - no longer though.
So as you can see, life is not as simple in boxing terms as you imply.

[twenty six]

By the way Clubber, if you think Baysangourov would ever visit these shores then you need to look back at his history.
To my knowledge agreed then pulled out twice in EBU fights against Jamie Moore.
Won't tell you how many times his name came up as an opponent with Ryan - but needless to say, he didn't fancy it.