James Toney V the greats or goods....

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 04 Aug 2005, 12:01

How do you guys think JT at his peak 160lbs would have faired against Leonard, Hagler, Hearns and Hopkins. I would pick him to beat all those guys at Middle. I really thought Toney was awesome at his best. Great chin, defense, punch power in either hand, fitness and a quality tactician....the comlete package. Leonard would have been a little too small for him, he would have been to busy for Marvin, too tough for Tommy and Bernard.....Looking at him beat Nunn was something special and his defenses were quite impressive too....

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 04 Aug 2005, 14:15

James Toney wasen't exactly awesome at Middleweight. Against Michael Nunn he got lucky, his fight with Reggie Johnson could have gone either way, and he was clearly beaten by soft hitting club fighter Dave Tiberi. In fact when Toney was announced to be the split decision winner (one judge had it 117-111 Tiberi) the crowd began chanting BS-BS-BS. Merqui Sosa also took him to a split decision at MW.

I think Toney would have his best chance against Hearns, and I could see that either going as a decision for Hearns or a late stoppage for Toney.

Hopkins would be too slick and polished for Toney, but I think Toney would put in a respectful performance in losing something like 7-4-1 on the round system.

If it's the Sugar Ray Leonard who beat Hagler at Middleweight, than Toney get's a boxing lesson in route to a one sided decision loss.

And if it's Marvin Hagler, I'd say it's a 12 round beating for Toney with a possible trip or two to the canvas.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 04 Aug 2005, 14:52

Too BUSY FOR A PRIME MARVIN HAGLER???

You're on crack!

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 04 Aug 2005, 15:50

I would say Toney squeaks a win out over Hagler too. It would be one great fight.

I'll continue to pass on the crack but thanks for thinking of me.

barry · Post by **barry** » 04 Aug 2005, 16:01

People can say what they want about Toney's desire, but anyone that has seen his first bout with McCallum would understand why he is ranked so high, because at his best..Toney is about as good as anyone could want!

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 04 Aug 2005, 16:47

Toney's style is tou counterpunch you and wear you down over a fight. He gladly gives away the first few rounds so the other guy can tire and then he steps it up.

Hagler is Toney's nightmare opponent . . . someone who would be raining down fast, hard punches, but then still be coming on strong later in the fight. Sometimes I think some of you have only seen Hagler 1985-87, and not the absolute beast of 1977-82. It would take a hell of a lot more then a few right hands over the top round after round to slow Marvin down . . .

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 04 Aug 2005, 18:06

Both great fighters. I seen Marvin with Duran, Monroe (with whom he managed 2 out 3) and Antuefurmo and a lot of the early glory stuff. So I know what I'm assessing.

Anything could happen with these two. I give Toney an edge is all.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 08 Aug 2005, 05:47

I agree Barry, Toney was awesome at his peak. He had everything, chin, stamina, KO power at all times from all angles, great defense, killer instinct....very clever and was a championship performer. When the chips were down, he could pul it off. Reminded me of Leonard at Welter. That's why I see him beating Ray, because he was basically a bigger stronger version of Ray. I think when James was pushed, that's when he really shone and Hagler would bring the extra out in Toney and I'm convinced he could match Marvin in all areas, and would better him as regards KO power........

dnahar32 · Post by **dnahar32** » 08 Aug 2005, 08:40

Toney was great for a couple of fights at middle, Marvin was great over a 10 year period. The idea of KO power is not a question, because Marvin's iron chin would never visit the canvas. Numerous hard straight right hands from Hearns couldn't put Marvin down and neither could Toney.

Marvin was better than Toney because he fought and beat all different styles of fighters at middleweight than Toney. Hagler didn't coast for part of the round. Toney is acknowledged as a master ring technician, and he is, but Hagler has seen it all. And Hagler didn't struggle against Tiberi or fall behind to Nunn and win on one punch.

If fighter A needs to be motivated to fight, and Fighter B gives max effort every time, I pick Fighter B if all else is equal. Hagler is B and I think he wins a decision over Toney.

Lickszz · Post by **Lickszz** » 08 Aug 2005, 08:51

He's be competative with them but I don't think he's beat any of those legends. Toney had the style and skills to be competative in just about any era.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 09 Aug 2005, 07:06

First of all Toney ahs got to be motivated and he's got to be properly prepared. Even then I can't see him beating Hagler. I think Marvin scores a clsoe UD. I think Hearns could win a decision if he fights cautiously but if he gets drawn into a slug out I think Toney could stop him.

An absolute prime and conditioned Toney could beat Leonard at Middle over 15.

I'm not sure Toney beat McCallum. They were close fights. I'm not sure I could pick a Toney-Hopkins winner, very close for my money.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 09 Aug 2005, 13:16

I'll give you one Toney could not beat and that would be Carlos Monzon.
Monzon would beat any middleweight of the modern era.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 09 Aug 2005, 14:36

BoxBuzz

I don't know if I'd rate Monzon the greatest Middleweight of the modern era, but you sure can make a good case by asking the questions. Who was 15-0 with 10Ko's in World Title Fights ? Who ended his career on a 31 fight winning streak ? And who was unbeaten in his last 81 bouts ? Pretty hard numbers to beat.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 09 Aug 2005, 15:07

Ezzard wrote:I'm not sure Toney beat McCallum. They were close fights..

Me neither. In fact I thought McCallum won the first two fights, but they were very close and a strong argument could be made for either fighter.

Those two fights seemed to be one of those fights were UK fans thought McCallum won and USA fans thought Toney won. Generally speaking.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 10 Aug 2005, 04:40

KOJOE

if I ahd to elan either way I'd go for Mike. He was a great figther who never got the opportunities his skills deserved.