Most complete Heavyweight

[The End]

Out of all the heavyweights which would you say was the most complete ever?

Me personally I pick Holyfield.

IMO he had no weakness.

He had an awesome chin,great speed,tons of heart, one of the best combination punchers at the weight ever and he was never even slightly out of shape.

[raylawpc]

As a shout-out for an old timer, I'd say Jim Jeffries - at least according to contemporary descriptions of him circa 1904.

[The End]

Out of all the heavyweights which would you say was the most complete ever?

Me personally I pick Holyfield.

IMO he had no weakness.

He had an awesome chin,great speed,tons of heart, one of the best combination punchers at the weight ever and he was never even slightly out of shape.

disagree with that statement. he was way too willing to engage in exchanges and took more punishment than he needed.

also in fights like : moorer I, bowe I & cooper he showed he had flaws that if he were the most complete HW ever wouldn't have had the problems he had in these fights.

i think most complete ever is joe louis or sonny liston. though evander wouldn't be trailing too far behind these guys.

i don't think people talk enough about how sharp of a defensive fighter sonny liston was. he reminds me of a more powerful marvin hagler.

For me Liston didnt have enough heart and was also too slow.

Louis however would've been my next choice who I believe is one of the most technically sound fighters regardless of weight class but I just feel his chin wasnt quite up to par with the greats.

Holyfield did have an uncanny ability to get hit a lot but that was because he didn't mind slugging it out.

[clubberlang]

As a shout-out for an old timer, I'd say Jim Jeffries - at least according to contemporary descriptions of him circa 1904.

I can’t agree with you on this one, from the accounts I have Jeffries was awkward, strong, durable, hard hitting with loads of stamina; but he was also slow footed and technically + defensively limited.

Evander is a good call.

Joe Luis is let down by his ponderous feet & his chin.

Ezzard Charles could be in with a shout, as could Gene Tunney & Larry Holmes.

Ali is certainly in with a shout, he had great foot work, lightning quick hands, undervalued power, accuracy, a brilliant tactical mind, a great chin, stamina, heart & durability.

Ali's only real flaw in my mind was his tendency to head hunt.

[Syntax Error]

I'd say Larry Holmes is close to being the complete HW.

Holmes had recuperative powers like I've never seen before; he had a jab from the ages with which he could control an entire fight; he had a sound chin; he had good stamina; he had decent power; his footwork was good & he was as game as they come.

[The Great John L]

I can’t agree with you on this one, from the accounts I have Jeffries was awkward, strong, durable, hard hitting with loads of stamina; but he was also slow footed and technically + defensively limited.

Jeffries certainly had flaws, but being slow footed was not one of them.

[observer1]

Ali without a doubt imo

[clubberlang]

I can’t agree with you on this one, from the accounts I have Jeffries was awkward, strong, durable, hard hitting with loads of stamina; but he was also slow footed and technically + defensively limited.

Jeffries certainly had flaws, but being slow footed was not one of them.

I’m basing his ponderous footwork on accounts from the ring magazine; I’ve personally only seen Jeffries when he was fat and out of shape against Jack Johnson. However Jeffries was stated to look ponderous against men who would amount to modern day light heavyweights, so he probably was a dam sight quicker of foot then the giants of today, but he would of course now be dwarfed.

[Crease]

There has not been a complete Heavyweight... Yet.
But I would plump for Joe Louis....

[Crease]

I knew that people would bring up Muhammad Ali. In terms of Ali in my opinion he excelled in so many attributes and because he was was so gifted it was that that made him so great...
I agree with this poster when he says:

Ali is certainly in with a shout, he had great foot work, lightning quick hands, undervalued power, accuracy, a brilliant tactical mind, a great chin, stamina, heart & durability.

Ali's only real flaw in my mind was his tendency to head hunt.

I think Ali had a few other flaws, for example he wasn't a great offensive fighter, he couldn't bring a fight the way that Frazier, Marciano or Dempsey could. And I also think that Ali (in some fights) was too reliant on his jab, and as such he got UDS when he could've got KOs.

Only my opinion.

[raylawpc]

As a shout-out for an old timer, I'd say Jim Jeffries - at least according to contemporary descriptions of him circa 1904.

I can’t agree with you on this one, from the accounts I have Jeffries was awkward, strong, durable, hard hitting with loads of stamina; but he was also slow footed and technically + defensively limited.

Evander is a good call.

Joe Luis is let down by his ponderous feet & his chin.

Ezzard Charles could be in with a shout, as could Gene Tunney & Larry Holmes.

Ali is certainly in with a shout, he had great foot work, lightning quick hands, undervalued power, accuracy, a brilliant tactical mind, a great chin, stamina, heart & durability.

Ali's only real flaw in my mind was his tendency to head hunt.

You need to read some contemporaneous accounts of Jeffries circa 1904.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Evander definitely had a flawed defense.

Sam Langford deserves mention.

[Crease]

i think these are two huge misconceptions attributed to joe. just because you're not oliver mccall/george chuvalo doesn't mean you have a suspect/weak chin - there is a middle ground. louis definitely had a sturdy chin but it wasn't the greatest. and also if he had bad footwork then how was he able to cut off the ring and throw in such beautiful combinations? you need decent-good footwork in order for that to occur.

Joe's footwork and ring awareness could never be called in to question.

[BoxBuzz]

PURELY Technically probably Louis

But overall when everything that a fighter is about is factored in.....It's Ali.

A boxer is MORE than his pure tech ability, and Ali's tech strengths were not in short supply. But his ring generalship, ability to assess his opponent, overall physical and mental speed and chin put him a notch above.

I.M.H.O.

I'm not sure Holy is in this league. And there is the question of him juicing.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Vitali Klitschko

The guy who throws arm punches?

The most complete, I think, would probably be Louis, Holyfield, & Ali. They all have short-comings, though. Louis' chin is getting a bad wrap here, but it's not perfect either, & though his footwork was very sound technically, he was not especially quick with it when crossing large distances. Holyfield lacked defense, a big, fight-changing punch, & discipline with his gameplans, as well as occasional lapses in endurance. Ali had limited scope when it came to foreseeing the left hook, & he, too, could rarely wound a top-notch rival with one game-changing punch --- which got him into major trouble with a lot of guys Foreman & Frazier decapitated.

No ones perfect.

[raylawpc]

I know I'll be criticized for saying it, but I think Sonny Liston circa 1958-1960 was the most complete heavyweight fighter I've ever seen. I personally think Sonny was past his prime when he won the title. I also believe that the Sonny of those years would have defeated the young 1964 version of Cassius Clay.

[dempseyfire]

Louis had quick feet . . at his peak he could close the distance very quickly . the guy just didn't dance around like Holyfield, Ali and Holmes and so people say he had slow feet. Also fot a guy with a weak chin he sure managed to last a long time (25 title defense over more than a decade) vs some very big punchers without getting KO'd.

My vote is Louis, 2nd Jack Johnson, 3rd Liston or Dempsey.

If we are discounting consistency Jack Sharkey makes the top 3 or 4 for me.

[yancey]

I'd say Larry Holmes is close to being the complete HW.

Holmes had recuperative powers like I've never seen before; he had a jab from the ages with which he could control an entire fight; he had a sound chin; he had good stamina; he had decent power; his footwork was good & he was as game as they come.

A viable argument can definitely be made for Larry, but to be the most complete heavyweight I would think he would needed to have more power.

Same with Ali, imo.

Probably have to go with the Brown Bomber.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'd say Larry Holmes is close to being the complete HW.

Holmes had recuperative powers like I've never seen before; he had a jab from the ages with which he could control an entire fight; he had a sound chin; he had good stamina; he had decent power; his footwork was good & he was as game as they come.

A viable argument can definitely be made for Larry, but to be the most complete heavyweight I would think he would needed to have more power.

Same with Ali, imo.

Larry had more power than Muhammad. He had the same disdain for going to the body. But his jab alone was powerful enough to get anyone's attention.

[yancey]

I'd say Larry Holmes is close to being the complete HW.

Holmes had recuperative powers like I've never seen before; he had a jab from the ages with which he could control an entire fight; he had a sound chin; he had good stamina; he had decent power; his footwork was good & he was as game as they come.

A viable argument can definitely be made for Larry, but to be the most complete heavyweight I would think he would needed to have more power.

Same with Ali, imo.

Larry had more power than Muhammad. He had the same disdain for going to the body. But his jab alone was powerful enough to get anyone's attention.

Agree that Larry had more power than Ali.

I'm just saying to be the most complete heavyweight, one would need GREAT punching power and I don't think Larry had that.

[yancey]

PURELY Technically probably Louis

But overall when everything that a fighter is about is factored in.....It's Ali.

A boxer is MORE than his pure tech ability, and Ali's tech strengths were not in short supply. But his ring generalship, ability to assess his opponent, overall physical and mental speed and chin put him a notch above.

I.M.H.O.

I'm not sure Holy is in this league. And there is the question of him juicing.

Don't forget Ali's mouth. He had a great one.

[enrique]

Argument can be made for many.

Jeffries had no amateur career and won the undisputed title in his thirteenth fight, retired undefeated and his only loss was when he was over the hill in a comeback he did not want.

Louis had excellent footwork, balance and could cut the ring. Many confuse his slow feet with bad footwork. He could take a shot and he could hit like a mule. He was the full package.

It's all subjective

[raylawpc]

PURELY Technically probably Louis

But overall when everything that a fighter is about is factored in.....It's Ali.

A boxer is MORE than his pure tech ability, and Ali's tech strengths were not in short supply. But his ring generalship, ability to assess his opponent, overall physical and mental speed and chin put him a notch above.

I.M.H.O.

I'm not sure Holy is in this league. And there is the question of him juicing.

Don't forget Ali's mouth. He had a great one.

[The Great John L]

Larry had more power than Muhammad. He had the same disdain for going to the body. But his jab alone was powerful enough to get anyone's attention.

In most fights Holmes was a head huner, but I recall a number of fights where Holmes was quite effective to the body. In fact he was very good with a straight right to the body, which is not an easy punch to get away with. He did what he to based on his opponent, and many of his opponents were so over-matched that he didn't need to worry about landing anything to the body.

[Crease]

I know I'll be criticized for saying it, but I think Sonny Liston circa 1958-1960 was the most complete heavyweight fighter I've ever seen. I personally think Sonny was past his prime when he won the title. I also believe that the Sonny of those years would have defeated the young 1964 version of Cassius Clay.

I don't think you will get much ridicule for saying that Ray, others have expressed the same opinion in the past. (Though I disagree).