Calzaghe v Evans Ashira next month

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 Aug 2005, 05:51

Kilburn wrote:
nickd wrote:
Kilburn wrote: Settle down Nick, I know you badly want to see Calzaghe get flattened but this Lacy aint Julian Jackson.
I'm not saying he is but I think he's a bigger hitter than Mitchell. Do you not think so?
You think he hits a LOT harder than Mitchell. I don't think he does.

I was going to say the same. Lacy is stronger, but Mitchell is a better puncher, or at least was.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 10 Aug 2005, 05:52

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Err, does it occur to you Kilburn that Joe may need to have a bit of a workout before facing a monster like Lacy? He's not exactly had a hectic schedule of late and bowling over a middlweight in 2 rounds won't help much.

I know what your saying, but Lacy is right in the groove, he's young, active, and at the height of his powers, i would have thought that getting a durable SM might be an idea. Of course then there's the risk of injury.

I know he is not a natural Super Middleweight, but Eastman would have fit the bill. Calzaghe would have won at a canter but the fight would probably go the distance.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 10 Aug 2005, 05:57

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Err, does it occur to you Kilburn that Joe may need to have a bit of a workout before facing a monster like Lacy? He's not exactly had a hectic schedule of late and bowling over a middlweight in 2 rounds won't help much.

I know what your saying, but Lacy is right in the groove, he's young, active, and at the height of his powers, i would have thought that getting a durable SM might be an idea. Of course then there's the risk of injury.

That might be alright if the gap between these 2 fights wasn't so small. As it is I thought people would be pleased that Calzaghe will have 1 less excuse to pull out of the big one.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 Aug 2005, 05:57

Christ, I can't see that being an easy fight to make. although he's just been done by Abrahams, no doubt Eastman would still think he was big-time and would want sorting.

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 10 Aug 2005, 06:03

Ashra ranked 13 by the IBO at middleweight. Why not fight a super middleweight. This should not count as a world title fight.

What sort of crowd will attend this. I bet the undercard has a load of mismatches.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 10 Aug 2005, 06:19

At least it's a good chance to put Khan on the bill.

That's probably what Frank will do, bung Khan on as main event and have calzaghe supporting, like what happened with Skelton/Krence. Although if it had been skelton/williams it wouldn't have happened like that. Obviously calzaghe/lacy when/if it comes round would be main event and khan can figth again.

I would settle for this?

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 10 Aug 2005, 06:27

We'll have to agree to disagree on Mitchell's power, I don't think it was all that to be honest. He could hit but he wasn't a big puncher IMO. I doubt he'd have dropped Robin Reid four times anyway.

One look at his record, and most of his knockouts came early in his career before he fought in world class.

I personally think Lacy is the better puncher of the two.

Anyway fingers crossed for November, I really want to see this fight I'm just not convinced 100% it will go ahead - we've been burned before!

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 10 Aug 2005, 06:33

I wouldn't rate Lacy's power over Mitchell either - Bryan had fought at a much higher level, defending overseas & knocking out hardened contenders like Siaca and Green. Yes Lacy swung from the hip and put over Reid, but Rob couldn't have made it much easier for him.

Say what you want about Joe, but when the chips are down, he's got one of the biggest hearts in the game - and a very hard guy to beat.
Lacy wont have come up against anything like this before. He's in for a reality check...

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 10 Aug 2005, 06:34

MightyWarrior wrote:I wouldn't rate Lacy's power over Mitchell either - Bryan had fought at a much higher level, defending overseas & knocking out hardened contenders like Siaca and Green. Yes Lacy swung from the hip and put over Reid, but Rob couldn't have made it much easier for him.

Say what you want about Joe, but when the chips are down, he's got one of the biggest hearts in the game - and a very hard guy to beat.
Lacy wont have come up against anything like this before. He's in for a reality check...

Maybe, but when did Calzaghe last show his heart? It's been a while.

This looks like a great fight I just hope it goes ahead as planned with no hitches.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 10 Aug 2005, 07:03

Up until the Mitchell fight I was slagging Calzaghe off almost daily over on Eastside. I used to argue the toss with the likes of JC and Slick Like Herol all the time, taking the piss out of those "5-slap combinations" etc. Then Calzaghe got knocked down against Mitchell. He was pretty well hurt in there but instead of trying to ride out the storm he gripped the canvas and fired back with everything he had, suddenly looking strong again. Now THAT was impressive and made me believe he had something that not too many other fighters have. Certainly not in this country anyway.

He might not have fancied it at times in his career, he could be over the hill now, but you know that if he gets in the ring with Lacy he'll definitely be there to fight and give it everything he's got. For this reason alone I'll be shouting for him all the way.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 10 Aug 2005, 07:15

I thought Calzaghe got lucky vs Mitchell.

I don't think Calzaghe "knew" what he was doing vs Mitchell when he put him down. He was just wailing away and Mitchell was so careless he walked onto one.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 10 Aug 2005, 07:24

Kilburn wrote:Then Calzaghe got knocked down against Mitchell. He was pretty well hurt in there but instead of trying to ride out the storm he gripped the canvas and fired back with everything he had, suddenly looking strong again. Now THAT was impressive

Well, he was straddling the line between bravery and stupidity there IMO. Stu is right, calzaghe was wailing away blindly. I don't like to use the term 'lucky punch' but if ever it were appropriate it was that shot which put down Mitchell. If Mitchell had used some nous and in turn weathered Calzaghe's storm, Joe would have been spent. But Mitchell loved to brawl too...

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 10 Aug 2005, 07:32

Bloody hell you guys are hard to please that's all I can say. 8)

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 10 Aug 2005, 07:38

I don't think Lacy is a one punch KO artist, he seems to use his strength and accumulation of punches overwhelm his opponents, Mitchell was more of a one punch type of guy but i do agree with nickd to some extent his KO ratio was bulked up early in his career. Julio Cesar Green was a blown up Light Middleweight who axtually dropped Byron before getting stopped himself but that's beside the point....

Back to Ashira and i think big things were expected of him prior to the Masoe loss, he had been sparring in Florida and signed some sort of deal with Don King if i remember correctly. I have only seen him once against Fredrik Alvarez, he boxed well and won via a late stoppage.

As for the injury concern, their is always a risk of injury in every fight and worrying about an injury is no excuse for a bad matchup IMO If you are a world champion you should be willing to take on a legitimate Super Middleweight and if you get unjured so be it. We all want the Lacy fight but is fighting a blown up Middleweight as a preperation fair? I don't think so. Do you think the esteemed champions of yesteryear would have fought a stiff before a big fight because of an "injury risk"? Of course not, Calzaghe can be a good fighter but he is also a bit of an injury prone powder puff as times too. Just get in there with a genuine SM and slug it out for god sake.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 10 Aug 2005, 07:40

Of course its a tune-up, but he`ll need more than a round or two to sharpen up for Lacy.

Lucky for him Khan is on the bill to shift tickets, it will be funny to see the place emptying after Khan has been on

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 10 Aug 2005, 07:45

steve689 wrote:I don't think Lacy is a one punch KO artist, he seems to use his strength and accumulation of punches overwhelm his opponents, Mitchell was more of a one punch type of guy but i do agree with nickd to some extent his KO ratio was bulked up early in his career. Julio Cesar Green was a blown up Light Middleweight who axtually dropped Byron before getting stopped himself but that's beside the point....

Back to Ashira and i think big things were expected of him prior to the Masoe loss, he had been sparring in Florida and signed some sort of deal with Don King if i remember correctly. I have only seen him once against Fredrik Alvarez, he boxed well and won via a late stoppage.

As for the injury concern, their is always a risk of injury in every fight and worrying about an injury is no excuse for a bad matchup IMO If you are a world champion you should be willing to take on a legitimate Super Middleweight and if you get unjured so be it. We all want the Lacy fight but is fighting a blown up Middleweight as a preperation fair? I don't think so. Do you think the esteemed champions of yesteryear would have fought a stiff before a big fight because of an "injury risk"? Of course not, Calzaghe can be a good fighter but he is also a bit of an injury prone powder puff as times too. Just get in there with a genuine SM and slug it out for god sake.

You're being daft Steve, imagine the criticism if Calzaghe blew the Lacy fight because he took on too tough an assignment only 2 months beforehand. It doesn't just have to be an injury like a broken hand or cut, it could just be too hard a fight full stop.

If anything the issue here shouldn't be about the opponent, it should be about Calzaghe having 2 title defences so close together. He should have fought in July or August.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 10 Aug 2005, 07:52

Your right, he should have fought July Or August. I am probably being daft yes but the point i am trying to make is that Calzaghe has brought it on himself, if he had fought better opposition and made a reputation for himself as a tough customer not afraid to take on challenges then people would not have so much problem with him taking on the occasional soft touch in order to preserve a big fight.

It's the fact he has to be handled with kid gloves all the time that annoys me, this is no where near even a "defining fight" in my eyes yet we are still having the old "will he, wont he" discussions and that is down to his attitude. He pulled out twice versus Johnson and i think it is a big possibililty he will not go through with the Lacy bout.

If he had been in with the likes of Green, Markussen or Larsen or just generally better fighters then we could afford him the leeway with these sort of matches because he had at least seen to be willing to put himself on the line. Instead he has held a paper title making paper defences and Ashira is just an unacceptable opponent in a line of them.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 10 Aug 2005, 07:56

Okay fair enough.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 Aug 2005, 08:20

Agree with you there. Calzaghe has got up and fired back with everything he's got both times he's been down, there's no questioning his fighting spirit in the ring, it's his desire when out of it. You can question how sensible it was to whale away on Mitchell but it worked, had he tried to cover up, he may have gotten stopped himself.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 10 Aug 2005, 08:22

steve689 wrote:Your right, he should have fought July Or August. I am probably being daft yes but the point i am trying to make is that Calzaghe has brought it on himself, if he had fought better opposition and made a reputation for himself as a tough customer not afraid to take on challenges then people would not have so much problem with him taking on the occasional soft touch in order to preserve a big fight.

It's the fact he has to be handled with kid gloves all the time that annoys me, this is no where near even a "defining fight" in my eyes yet we are still having the old "will he, wont he" discussions and that is down to his attitude. He pulled out twice versus Johnson and i think it is a big possibililty he will not go through with the Lacy bout.

If he had been in with the likes of Green, Markussen or Larsen or just generally better fighters then we could afford him the leeway with these sort of matches because he had at least seen to be willing to put himself on the line. Instead he has held a paper title making paper defences and Ashira is just an unacceptable opponent in a line of them.

My sentiments exactly Steve, spot on.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 10 Aug 2005, 08:23

Name me a 'world' champion with 39 pro fights that has had as many soft touches. You wouldn't find one, anywhere, ever.

Frustrating as he had the talent to mix with the best I think but he's been happier in the comfort zone.

mickeybeard · Post by **mickeybeard** » 10 Aug 2005, 08:28

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Err, does it occur to you Kilburn that Joe may need to have a bit of a workout before facing a monster like Lacy? He's not exactly had a hectic schedule of late and bowling over a middlweight in 2 rounds won't help much.

Agreed. Someone like Otis Grant would've been nice (he says, having watched a tape with an Otis Grant fight on it last night...). Older than dirt and never likely to win, but still a decent boxer, a sharp (but far from heavy) hitter, good chin and comes to win. Make it a non-title fight at 171 lbs and let Joe work himslef up to Lacey with a glorified publice sparring session.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 10 Aug 2005, 08:49

nickd wrote:
Kilburn wrote:
nickd wrote:Lacy hits a LOT harder than Mitchell
Settle down Nick, I know you badly want to see Calzaghe get flattened but this Lacy aint Julian Jackson.
I'm not saying he is but I think he's a bigger hitter than Mitchell. Do you not think so?

NO, i would say mitchell hit harder than Lacy, who is heavy handed but not a KO Artist.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 10 Aug 2005, 08:54

I simply can't believe that - if this fight were to happen - some of you don't think it's that bad a match.

Despite all the excuses and so called 'reasons', it's a stone wall fornicating load of shite.

Calzaghe has gone backwards though... 8)

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 10 Aug 2005, 08:56

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:I simply can't believe that - if this fight were to happen - some of you don't think it's that bad a match.

Despite all the excuses and so called 'reasons', it's a stone wall fornicating load of shite.

Calzaghe has gone backwards though... 8)

Its shocking, but then its what I have come to expect of Captain Joe after 8 years at the helm of the good ship WBO.