AFTER 50 YRS OF ARUM & KING'S ANTICS...DOES BOXING WANT GBP?

[loaded_gloves]

This is a question for the wretched long suffering boxing fans. Did anybody think this gradual switch from the time honoured tradition of scheming promoters & dodgy sanctioning bodies controlling boxing to high profile fighters like De la Hoya becoming promoters and driving the old guys out was going to be a positive for the sport and perhaps clean it up?

Looking at the behaviour of Oscar de la Hoya and Golden Boy, rather than doing anything positive or revolutionary for the sport they essentially seem to be in it for the exact same reasons as Arum and King: line their pockets at the expense of the sport, control the rankings, sell protected, untested fighters on expensive PPVs, promote mismatches with hand picked and undeserving opponents, utilise multiple paper titles to the detriment of the sport, short change fighters, treat underdogs like shit, viciously contest anything that doesn't go their way even when they surely know they are wrong etc.

So really, what is the difference? Once Arum and King croak, is boxing going to be any different or better than it has been these past 50 years?

With the sanctioning bodies thirst for money and multiple belts and GDPs full cooperation and desire to control all of boxing, isn't the sport we love doomed to get even worse whilst some old fighters line their pockets? What say you?

[jtourettes]

Hopefully now that Greenberg has got the boot from HBo, GBP won't find themselves in such a favourable position with guaranteed tv dates.

As for them cleaning up the sport of boxing as they originally claimed they were going to

[loaded_gloves]

You expect Jewish lawyers and black hoodlums to rip you off. It's the done thing. Par for the course and all that. You don't feel sullied when it happens because there's no real shame in being fleeced by a 'Hebe' or shook down by a 'darkie'. But to be screwed over by a Mexican American, a border-hopping 'wetback' and his team of bandits is different. It's new. It's unfamiliar. These Mexicans are meant to be toiling away sans work permits in the fields of Southern California, aren't they? White-collar manoeuvring is beyond them, isn't it? Wasn't it? The very nerve of them. How dare they? They're taking over: stealing the bread from the mouths of ordinary decent criminals and force feeding them burritos and Tabasco. Motherfuckers.

What an idiotic thing to write. Do you think race even crossed my mind when I wrote the initial post? I'm talking about more corruption in boxing, not the race of the people who are now corrupting it.

Jesus christ there are some absolute weirdos out there.

[bripez]

My point was that people get into boxing promotion to make as much money as possible for themselves. It's only natural that self-interest and self-protection will be elevated above benevolence; irrespective of who the promoter is

I agree with this.

All this "putting something back into the sport" is a load of shite.

Ex-boxers become promoters because they want to stay in the sport (for many it is all they know), to stay in the limelight (they miss the old "smell of the greasepaint") and to make money (you can't have too much money).

[orbtastic]

or they think they can do better than their promoter, or think they will look after their boxers more.

[iamasadlittleboy]

GBP are just the next in line to screw fighters, just look at the recent ring farce with the Andrade/George card and the constant whining about the Khan referee...

[Quixall]

This sounds naive, but the only way that boxing will change is if the money runs out, ie, people stop going to shows, stop buying ppv, stop switching on to sky and espn or channel 5, stop buying the magazines or at least a substantial amount of people anyway. Your De La Hoya's of this world are no different to any other businessman, they will will buy cheap and sell high if they can and at the moment the buying public are allowing them to get away with it. The problem is that in order to do so the average boxing fan has to cut off his nose to spite his face and he won't do that, he loves his boxing and wants to watch it, so the vicious circle goes on and on. Ultimately a product only changes if people aren't buying it and at the moment there are still enough people willing to pay for boxing, so whether it's King, Arum, De La Hoya or Mickey Mouse, things wont change.

[loaded_gloves]

I was being flippant. Sorry. My point was that people get into boxing promotion to make as much money as possible for themselves. It's only natural that self-interest and self-protection will be elevated above benevolence; irrespective of who the promoter is and what his cloak looks like. Same old shit, different day.

Oh sorry mate, I misunderstood your point - I thought you were effectively saying I had beef with these brown people getting above their station. My mistake! I am semi-retarded so forgive me.

[loaded_gloves]

So the general consensus from boxing fans, so far, everyone just wants to make as much money as possible so fuvck it?

No one thought Oscar is young enough, fresh enough, is an actual former fighter with the clout to be the new Dana White and clean up this dirty sport?

We all just accept that the money will corrupt whoever takes over, and the sport will continue to marginalise the sport until the point is no longer covered on any level in the press and every single active pro boxer holds an interim super title ordinary world belt?

[Quixall]

So the general consensus from boxing fans, so far, everyone just wants to make as much money as possible so fuvck it?

No one thought Oscar is young enough, fresh enough, is an actual former fighter with the clout to be the new Dana White and clean up this dirty sport?

We all just accept that the money will corrupt whoever takes over, and the sport will continue to marginalise the sport until the point is no longer covered on any level in the press and every single active pro boxer holds an interim super title ordinary world belt?

You have answered your own question !!

If De La Hoya was going to do it.....................He would have done so by now

That was my point. If you get to a situation that you describe above, THEN you will start to see changes happen in the sport. You can wish all you want and i totally agree with your original post, i absolutely agree, but no businessman is going to change a business that make him lots of money, untill he sees that money drying up. It's harsh, it's not fair, but that's how it is. Like i said, people have to switch off if they don't like what they see, because for De La Hoya et al its a great cash cow.

[Glyn Leach]

I was being flippant. Sorry. My point was that people get into boxing promotion to make as much money as possible for themselves. It's only natural that self-interest and self-protection will be elevated above benevolence; irrespective of who the promoter is and what his cloak looks like. Same old shit, different day.

Oh sorry mate, I misunderstood your point - I thought you were effectively saying I had beef with these brown people getting above their station. My mistake! I am semi-retarded so forgive me.

In the words of 'paedy' Pete, 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'

[Quixall]

This sounds naive, but the only way that boxing will change is if the money runs out, ie, people stop going to shows, stop buying ppv, stop switching on to sky and espn or channel 5, stop buying the magazines or at least a substantial amount of people anyway. Your De La Hoya's of this world are no different to any other businessman, they will will buy cheap and sell high if they can and at the moment the buying public are allowing them to get away with it. The problem is that in order to do so the average boxing fan has to cut off his nose to spite his face and he won't do that, he loves his boxing and wants to watch it, so the vicious circle goes on and on. Ultimately a product only changes if people aren't buying it and at the moment there are still enough people willing to pay for boxing, so whether it's King, Arum, De La Hoya or Mickey Mouse, things wont change.

It wouldn’t work, it would kill the sport. If people stopped watching and Sky dropped it how are they going to up the product when they can barely produce with Sky’s money. If Boxing Monthly and Boxing News folded then we would lose two publications that are old and established and be left with The Ring. If cash support was withdraw who do you think would survive? That is right, Oscar and his organisation as they’ve money to burn. Your suggestion would drive boxing into the ground.

As for ODH/GB, there’s a few threads on the subject. Oscar has always been a cynical guy with a big, fake smile and story. He was never really graceful in defeat or after some of his narrow wins and is a manufactured good guy. This latest farce has shown what GB are really all about.

Well, my theory was hypothetical King because as i later state in the post, your avergae boxing fan would have to cut his nose off to spite his face, he still wants to watch boxing and so continues to do so, despite being aware that what he is being sold is shop solied. I did say that at least a significant amount of people would have to switch off, not everyone as you point out, but enough to make the movers and shakers make fundamental changes to the sport. My main point was "Don't expect De La Hoya to do anything about it", which you allude to in your reply to my post.

[Glyn Leach]

So the general consensus from boxing fans, so far, everyone just wants to make as much money as possible so fuvck it?

No one thought Oscar is young enough, fresh enough, is an actual former fighter with the clout to be the new Dana White and clean up this dirty sport?

We all just accept that the money will corrupt whoever takes over, and the sport will continue to marginalise the sport until the point is no longer covered on any level in the press and every single active pro boxer holds an interim super title ordinary world belt?

You have answered your own question !!

If De La Hoya was going to do it.....................He would have done so by now

All Oscar has done is provide money for Schaefer to use. i never expected Oscar, who I have enormous respect for as a fighter despite glaring shortcomings, to suddenly become a business brain. I feel the same way about Ricky Hatton - financier, frontman, but promoter?

That was my point. If you get to a situation that you describe above, THEN you will start to see changes happen in the sport. You can wish all you want and i totally agree with your original post, i absolutely agree, but no businessman is going to change a business that make him lots of money, untill he sees that money drying up. It's harsh, it's not fair, but that's how it is. Like i said, people have to switch off if they don't like what they see, because for De La Hoya et al its a great cash cow.

[Quixall]

It wouldn’t work, it would kill the sport. If people stopped watching and Sky dropped it how are they going to up the product when they can barely produce with Sky’s money. If Boxing Monthly and Boxing News folded then we would lose two publications that are old and established and be left with The Ring. If cash support was withdraw who do you think would survive? That is right, Oscar and his organisation as they’ve money to burn. Your suggestion would drive boxing into the ground.

As for ODH/GB, there’s a few threads on the subject. Oscar has always been a cynical guy with a big, fake smile and story. He was never really graceful in defeat or after some of his narrow wins and is a manufactured good guy. This latest farce has shown what GB are really all about.

Well, my theory was hypothetical King because as i later state in the post, your avergae boxing fan would have to cut his nose off to spite his face, he still wants to watch boxing and so continues to do so, despite being aware that what he is being sold is shop solied. I did say that at least a significant amount of people would have to switch off, not everyone as you point out, but enough to make the movers and shakers make fundamental changes to the sport. My main point was "Don't expect De La Hoya to do anything about it", which you allude to in your reply to my post.

They wouldn’t make the changes simply because they’re too greedy/stupid to see the long term. A mass switch off would be counter productive. You know the phrase, ‘Flogging a dead horse’? Well boxing’s equivalent is, ‘This horse appears to be dead, why don’t we flog it some more to see if we can beat it back to life and then put it to work’. Do you think it is a coincidence that George Orwell named the put upon horse in Animal Farm ‘Boxer’?

Your perhaps better read than i am King, i just stick to readers wives, the Beano and the Daily Star

Not for me your Prusst, Rousseaux, Machiaveli, Niesche, Tacitus or Seutonius rubbish

[GerardMcL]

Until the sport is controlled by a national commission and has some sort of governmental tie in or structure put in place it is a breeding ground for thieves and corruption.

No other sport in the world lends itself to crooks like boxing and this won't change until a professional body is set up to control the sport. Judges, refereeing, venues, gloves, title sanctioning fees, the awarding and removing of titles should not be left to the promoter/manager. Its a conflict of interests and always has and always will lead to corruption and the fast buck remaining undisputed champ of the sport.

[bripez]

As for ODH/GB, there’s a few threads on the subject. Oscar has always been a cynical guy with a big, fake smile and story. He was never really graceful in defeat or after some of his narrow wins and is a manufactured good guy. This latest farce has shown what GB are really all about.

I agree with this to be honest.

Also, what is all this "clean up the sport" - when has boxing been anything other than what it is today ?

We tend to look at things through rose tinted spectacles, but lets not kid ourselves that boxing has been anything other than corrupt.

[Quixall]

They wouldn’t make the changes simply because they’re too greedy/stupid to see the long term. A mass switch off would be counter productive. You know the phrase, ‘Flogging a dead horse’? Well boxing’s equivalent is, ‘This horse appears to be dead, why don’t we flog it some more to see if we can beat it back to life and then put it to work’. Do you think it is a coincidence that George Orwell named the put upon horse in Animal Farm ‘Boxer’?

Your perhaps better read than i am King, i just stick to readers wives, the Beano and the Daily Star

Not for me your Prusst, Rousseaux, Machiaveli, Niesche, Tacitus or Seutonius rubbish

You need to check out George’s seminal 1941 article ‘Why I’m effing sick of boxing’. It was followed closely by ‘Boxing is dead’ which led to the remarkable sequel ‘Boxing is really dead this time’. His final work, ‘I think I’ll switch to UFC’, is considered to be the work of an inferior impostor, my money’s on Mike Leigh.

I'm busily reading the reviews of these books by Alan Bennett.................

Also check out "An ode to boxing" by George Bernard Shaw, a critique on the the business of bare knuckle fighting

[Tomasino]

So the general consensus from boxing fans, so far, everyone just wants to make as much money as possible so fuvck it?

No one thought Oscar is young enough, fresh enough, is an actual former fighter with the clout to be the new Dana White and clean up this dirty sport?

We all just accept that the money will corrupt whoever takes over, and the sport will continue to marginalise the sport until the point is no longer covered on any level in the press and every single active pro boxer holds an interim super title ordinary world belt?

I was a bit taken in by Oscar and Big Dickie, just as I was with Haye and Booth. I think GDP will turn out just as bad as Arum and Oscar sometimes sounds like he is totally nuts, so I believe anything can happen with him involved. It all comes out through time though. I've even heard bad things about Hatton promotions. Like Macho says, same shit...