Azumah Nelson vs Marco Antonio Barrera

ELA · Post by **ELA** » 10 Aug 2005, 13:01

Any opinions?

I think this would have been a evenly matched fight.

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 10 Aug 2005, 14:33

Now this is a very even fight. I'd have loved to see this. In their primes, Nelson might have a puncher's chance, but Barrera would put up a competitive fight. It's a 50-50 fight in my opinion. I would hope Barrera pull out a win but it's hard to decide who'd win.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 10 Aug 2005, 15:08

Do I have to pick? Me and my wallet would go with the Professor.
I had to run the Salvadore Sanchez fight over in my head to decide.
Unfortunately for MAB I was seeing the Pac and Junior Jones fights in my mind as well.

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 10 Aug 2005, 15:32

Yeah, because of the fights with those two.. i'd have to lean toward Nelson as well. But if Barrera came in his tip top shape he's got a good shot at winning against featherweights of any era. But Nelson might have the power to stop him. Personally, I think Barrera lacks a bit of heart when he gets hurt early on. And against Nelson, you have to be well prepared. The only exception might be Sanchez but in that fight neither fighter was well prepared but i'd say Sanchez would beat Nelson even if they were both prepared.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 10 Aug 2005, 16:09

Agreed Just as it happened in real time.

ELA · Post by **ELA** » 10 Aug 2005, 17:14

Sanchez did defeat Nelson when nelson was just a youngster. Sanchez was killed in car accident less than a month after their fight in 1982.

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 10 Aug 2005, 18:11

ELA wrote:Sanchez did defeat Nelson when nelson was just a youngster. Sanchez was killed in car accident less than a month after their fight in 1982.

ElA... we know.

that's why I said even if they were both prepared meaning Sanchez and Nelson, Sanchez would still win. Nelson wasn't prepared because he was a youngster and Sanchez took the fight as a substitute for someone he was preparing for... he wasn't expecting a war. My point was that if Nelson was prepared (had more experience) and Sanchez was prepared (had seen Nelson before and trained hard) the outcome would be the same. And it's been said a thousand times before but... it's a shame that he was taken so young. But it's amazing that within his life he beat about 7 of the top 10 fighters in his weight class within 2 years. Had it not been for the tragedy, in my opinion, he would have been greater than Chavez.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 10 Aug 2005, 18:55

I`d have to go with the real featherweight Nelson to KO Marco late on.

Barrera always had problems with the fast sharp boxers, and Nelson was all this and more at his best, Marco was good at feather but great at super-bantam.

Nelson was just GREAT

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 11 Aug 2005, 04:15

Can't see Nelson being beaten by a naturally smaller fighter

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 11 Aug 2005, 12:22

I agree with tonyevs on this one.

Ghanas finest warrior wins on points or late stoppage.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 11 Aug 2005, 15:11

Barrera UD (12)

Everyone's mentioning Barrera's chin, as if it's terrible.

Why then, has he beaten Morales (also a good puncher, with greats skills) 2 times in 3 fights in which neither one of their chins was at any point a factor?

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 12 Aug 2005, 03:10

I never mentioned him having a weak chin...

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 12 Aug 2005, 04:58

Can't believe anyone could have Barrera beating Nelson. Just goes to show that yes, Nelson is indeed one of the most underrated fighters on modern times

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 12 Aug 2005, 17:29

Tantum wrote:Barrera UD (12)

Everyone's mentioning Barrera's chin, as if it's terrible.

Why then, has he beaten Morales (also a good puncher, with greats skills) 2 times in 3 fights in which neither one of their chins was at any point a factor?

More to do with Nelson`s Ko punch than Barrera`s punch resistance.

Morales KO power and boxing style at featherweight does not compare to Nelsons at featherweight.

Let us not forget Barrera was not a young man when he was at feather, and nor was Morales...whilst Nelson when he fought at the weight was a full featherweight and a young livewire also....and what style gave Barrera nightmares?? the livewire sharp punchers

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 13 Aug 2005, 00:23

Azumah would Ko or TKO Barrea if the fight took place at JLW or FW -

J. Jone's right hand (no where near Azumah's power) shook Barrea up badly - Azumah was five times the fighter of J. Jones -

It definitely would have been an entertaining fight.....but I see Azumah having too much smarts....talent and power....He Ko's Barrea late in an exciting fight -

wlvrne · Post by **wlvrne** » 15 Aug 2005, 09:23

flip a coin, IMO. definitely a "pick-'em" fight.

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 15 Aug 2005, 14:48

Barrera would beat him, and easier than many might believe possible. I base this not on the fact that Gabe Ruelas gave Azumah fits in their first fight or that he lost 3 of 4, the draw being a gift to Leija, or that Genaro Hernandez boxed rings around Nelson. I go back to Nelson's prime and the trouble that Villasana gave him when they fought in LA; I was there and though the unanimous decision was fair it doesn't reflect the fight. I am also thinking of when he fought Azabache- Mario- Martinez at the Forum in LA and was given a decision in one of the worst examples of judging i've ever seen. Martinez outboxed Nelson, outfought him and then knocked him down. Barrera was a better than Villasana or Martinez. I don't see any facet of the game where he does not have an advantage; Nelson never impressed me in any one area, and I don't know why he is considered great other than the fact that he almost went 15 with Sanchez, did well in rematches, and fought any and everyone. Couldn't tell you what was special about him in the ring.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 15 Aug 2005, 17:03

Tiredoldngrey.....that was a very grizzled take on this and I'm surprised at your assessment. Your the only one who put up a thoughtful rationale as to how MAB gets the job done. But you seem to focus only on the Proffesor's weaknesses. Respect for your opinion though I disagree.

With that said I assume you would say he loses to Morales and possibly Juan and Pac as well? Well maybe not Pac. These outcomes are unimaginable to me.

If you read this I would appreciate your feedback, I didnt mean to speak for you, just some assumptions I am making based on what I read.

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 15 Aug 2005, 18:09

tiredoldngrey - Get out of here (with all due respect) -

First off MAB biggest wins have been Vs Morales (and don't give me the Prince BS....he wasn't anything special the reality is the Prince was much more hype than actual fighting substance)

Furthermore MAB got bounced by Jones (twice) and Pac Man - Neither of these guys could have beat Nelson by any means -

Additionally Nelson was much past his prime in the fights you list Vs Ruelas and Leija (and way past his prime Vs Hernandez...and that fight was still very close!! a split dec loss ) -

Hell Vs Ruelas in both fights he beats him twice - once by MD ( but it was a clear win for Azumah if you watched it ) and then KO's him in 5rds in the rematch.

Vs Hernandez (a fine young champ at the time probably the best JLW at the time) he loses a split dec - and Azumah is way past his prime at this point!...which anyone who is willing to be intellectually honest has to admit).

Vs Leija...who definitely gave him problems...in all fights Azumah was up there in age (and way up there by 98)....but in the only clear cut fight between them ..Azumah TKO's him in 5 rounds in 1996!

You mention the Mario Martinez fight - Yes there FIRST fight was close (but Azumah won!)...and in their rematch Azumah dominates him and TKO's him in the 12th (winning on all cards easily).

Ditto this for Marcos Villasana - Again a close fight in which Azumah wins!!...then in the rematch Azumah wins and does so easily (less than a year later).

I would suggest both Marcos Villasana and Martinez would have given MAB tough fights .....without a doubt.

Azumah beats MAB clearly at JLW...and beatts him soundly at FW -

As for seeing no asset where Azumah is above MAB - That is absurd - Azumah had much more power (with both hands)...and the better chin -

MAB is a heck of a fighter (no doubt) but Azumah Nelson beats him at JLW and FW -

Additonally you don't mention that Azumah beat the great Wilfredo Gomez giving him only his second loss of his career (when Gomez was still a young 28 year old)

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 15 Aug 2005, 23:47

To begin: I thought that Barrera won the second Jones fight, effective defense being a judging criteria. The fight with Pac, who reminds me over Andy Ganigan, could be attributed to Barrera's training being disrupted by the fires near Big Bear, or it could be that Pac was both quicker and hit harder than anticipated and MAB got caught early and never recovered. He likes to fight southpaws at a controlled pace and at his choosing (in terms of how often they exchange, etc...) and Pac didn't allow that. The fight between Nelson and Martinez...Nelson got a decision but he did not win. He did get knocked down, outpunched, and then a very nice gift. the second fight was close for 5 rounds and which point Martinez suffered a compound fracture of his right hand, and that is why he chose not to finish the 12th round. When Nelson fought Gomez, Gomez was past finished, his ability to take a punch gone. Alfredo Layne also KO'd him around that same time. I don't believe that Marquez would beat Nelson, not a prime Nelson. As much as I like Marquez I think he's missding that little bit extra that makes one better than very good. Morales... I don't know, really, though I don't think he'd beat Nelson. I think that MAB is a much better overall boxer than Morales, who will always fight MAB tough because of pride. MAB v. Nelson... Nelson punched harder with the right than MAB, though he was very effective with it, but I belive MAB has the better left hand overall. I'd debate whether Nelson hit harder from that side, esp. to the body, and I've never seen him jab as effectively as I've seen MAB. Further he is more mobile than Azumah, if we are talking in their prime years, and I think he has an edge, quite possibly a substantial one, in defensive skills. I qualify that because I've seen them both be much less than good defensively and then be nearly brilliant. I believe that the fight would come down to how Nelson dealt with MAB's left hand. (I should mention here that I've seen Nelson many times, but have seen almost every MAB fight since his 18th birthday) If Nelson follows him around like he did with Whitaker he'd be fed a steady diet of jabs, left uppercuts and hooks to the body. He seems to look to his right primarily to counter jabs and if he were successful then it evolves into "Can MAB take his punch?" If not he'll get countered off the right. I think MAB would out-general him and hurt Nelson to the body and win a comfortable UD, and I make no prediction as to a rematch.

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 16 Aug 2005, 17:02

tiredoldngrey wrote: The fight between Nelson and Martinez...Nelson got a decision but he did not win. He did get knocked down, outpunched, and then a very nice gift. the second fight was close for 5 rounds and which point Martinez suffered a compound fracture of his right hand, and that is why he chose not to finish the 12th round. When Nelson fought Gomez, Gomez was past finished, his ability to take a punch gone. Alfredo Layne also KO'd him around that same time.

Hang on - First off Gomez was no where near "past finished" when Azumah beat him - Gomez was only 28 years old and had a record of 41-1-1 (39) at the time - He hadn't lost in over 3 years - (Gomez did not lose to Layne for another 2 years after being beat by Azumah) -

As for Nelson Vs Martinez I - Well Nelson did get knocked down (yes), he wasn't terribly hurt and he did win the fight - I had it 7-4-1 (Nelson) - The second fight was a clear cut victory for Nelson -

Additionaly Martinez was a tough SOB who would be have given MAB all he watned -

I'll give you that MAB has better movement and a better left hand to the body (one of the best) -

Though the notion that "if" Nelson fought MAB (like he did Whitaker) well that is a non-starter - MAB isn't close to Whitaker in terms of defensive fighting....nor in terms of speed (which caused Nelson much trouble...along with moving UP in weight to fight Whitaker).

I like MAB a lot - But having seen both guys fight many times....I just can't see MAB beating Azumah ....and I can see Azumah beating MAB by both....UNI DEC or TKO -

barry · Post by **barry** » 16 Aug 2005, 18:55

Both men at their very best, Nelson just walks through everything that Barrera has to throw at him and knocks Barrera out in the late rounds of a pretty competitive match, but in my opinion...Nelson was just too strong for Barrera and punched too hard. Barrera would have a good chance if he chose and stuck to do nothing but box, but if he went in and engaged in a war like he did against Morales, Nelson would tear him apart, within eight rounds!

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 17 Aug 2005, 04:47

meade95 wrote: Hang on - First off Gomez was no where near "past finished" when Azumah beat him - Gomez was only 28 years old and had a record of 41-1-1 (39) at the time - He hadn't lost in over 3 years - (Gomez did not lose to Layne for another 2 years after being beat by Azumah) -

Hi Meade

Sorry but have to disagree. Gomez wasn't the same fighter after he lost to Sanchez. He seemed to have lost something and really looked like the kind of big name who could be beaten by someone on the up. I never considered that the Nelson-Gomez fight would be anything other than a win for Nelson. The 'Gomez' name was still news but his prowess were gone.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 17 Aug 2005, 08:15

ELA wrote:Any opinions?

I think this would have been a evenly matched fight.

Wow, this would have been a real tough match for both fighters.

Very similar to Sanchez - Nelson.

However, I rate Sanchez a bit better than Barrera, and in a real purists fight with some great counter punching, Nelson by a razor thin decision, which could have gone either way.

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 17 Aug 2005, 15:40

Ezzard wrote:
meade95 wrote: Hang on - First off Gomez was no where near "past finished" when Azumah beat him - Gomez was only 28 years old and had a record of 41-1-1 (39) at the time - He hadn't lost in over 3 years - (Gomez did not lose to Layne for another 2 years after being beat by Azumah) -
Hi Meade

Sorry but have to disagree. Gomez wasn't the same fighter after he lost to Sanchez. He seemed to have lost something and really looked like the kind of big name who could be beaten by someone on the up. I never considered that the Nelson-Gomez fight would be anything other than a win for Nelson. The 'Gomez' name was still news but his prowess were gone.

I hear your sentiment - But the fact is for 3 years (after his loss to Sanchez) Gomez was still waiting for one of the those "on the up" to be able to beat him!! -

He won fights for three straight years before losing to Azumah - He was 41-1-1 going into that fight -

Was Gomez better at BW (probably) but he was still one of the best JFW in history when Azumah beat him - (IMO).

Azumah Nelson vs Marco Antonio Barrera

Azumah Nelson vs Marco Antonio Barrera

A. Nelson/MAB

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Re: Azumah Nelson vs Marco Antonio Barrera