Eubanks says Jones Jr wouldn't fight him?

[Jon Saxon]

Collins & Calzaghe beat Eubank 99 times out of 100 because they work too hard and are too active .. Mike Watson set the blueprint in that fateful return fight, simple really Eubank needed time or space-he anchored his feet or threw out of distance. (Its why Ray Close & Henry Wharton ran him closer than Lindell Holmes and Graciano Rocchi-the formers being a league below the latters, Styles.)

HOWEVER, Roy Jones didn`t have the style to come forward relentlessly throwing shots and style wise Eubank is an issue for Roy because he doesn`t initiate, he counters , he moves, he sways, he throws 6" or leaping shots either v.unreadable or v.readable no middle ground-v.difficult for ANY righthanded orthodox -6ft boxer-puncher to master Chris Eubank! I dont care if youre Roy Jones or not!


-STP

Just like the other Iron chinned fighters who got destroyed (that went the distance with Benn & Eubank) Thornton & Malinga I think Jones would have Ko'ed Eubank in 8 (maybe even 2 or 3)
Imagine Calzaghe or Eubank did somehow manage go the distance? they wouldnt have won a second of any round.

IF the granite chin help up Jones would have ko'ed him with body shots, I mean how good were Jones body shots? best in history, just ask Virgil Hill (who's vertibrae was broken by a single Jones punch), Clinton Woods, Glen Kelly.

Jones was on a different plane of existence.

The gulf was too big, fighters like Reggie Johnson get droppped and shut out and Johnson beats Eubank and Benn IMO.

[coghaugen11]

Collins & Calzaghe beat Eubank 99 times out of 100

Funny that because Eubank fairly clearly beat Collins in their first fight.

[coghaugen11]

Malinga wasn't iron-chinned Eubank and Benn had him on queer street.

Jones struggled desperately to land against cute tight defenses of Malinga and Thornton - he had to resort to feints against Malinga, and the 20-punch finishing flurry on Thornton had about a 10% success rate. Eubank landed at will on them.

Also, did Jones himself not state in Boxing Monthly in '93 that Eubank was the one fighter he'd have major problems with?

[coghaugen11]

Thornton (post-retirement) and Reggie Johnson (15yr pro) were years past their best when Jones fought them, as was McCallum. Reggie actually used to get the better of Jones in sparring in Pensacola in '92-'93 (when he was shaarrp).

[loaded_gloves]

Jones struggled desperately to land against cute tight defenses of Malinga

What a loaded post. Jones KOd Malinga with one punch!

[coghaugen11]

Jones struggled desperately to land against cute tight defenses of Malinga

What a loaded post. Jones KOd Malinga with one punch!

Due to a feint, after six rounds of struggling to break the defense.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Collins & Calzaghe beat Eubank 99 times out of 100 because they work too hard and are too active .. Mike Watson set the blueprint in that fateful return fight, simple really Eubank needed time or space-he anchored his feet or threw out of distance. (Its why Ray Close & Henry Wharton ran him closer than Lindell Holmes and Graciano Rocchi-the formers being a league below the latters, Styles.)

HOWEVER, Roy Jones didn`t have the style to come forward relentlessly throwing shots and style wise Eubank is an issue for Roy because he doesn`t initiate, he counters , he moves, he sways, he throws 6" or leaping shots either v.unreadable or v.readable no middle ground-v.difficult for ANY righthanded orthodox -6ft boxer-puncher to master Chris Eubank! I dont care if youre Roy Jones or not!


-STP

You really think that Eubank would have been able to counter Roy? the gulf in speed would have made that exceptionally difficult. Roy wouldn't have needed to pressure Eubank, he didn't need to pressure Toney either, he simply beat him to the punch time and time again.

Eubank was a very very good fighter, Roy was a great one, there's a difference. Roy was on a different plane.

[loaded_gloves]

The British SMWs engaged in local turf wars but didn't really impact on the world scene until Benn's win over McClellan.

Yep.

[coghaugen11]

Interesting:





On Showtime before his 2nd fight with Ray Close....



Toney
'Well, based on all recent performances, the only difficult fight for me in the world of all the fully-fledged super-middleweight fighters is James Toney, based on recent performances. Obviously there are political complications involved, but that's the answer to the question. I'm joint #1 in the world. You'll be watching one of the best in the game tonight. Not the proven, absolute very best, but one of them.'


G-Man
'He's a phenomenal puncher with great range levers behind the right hand, robust left hook, (and) the accuracy into the body shot left hook. Three punches to defend against is a strike against him though, although easier said than done, as we see.

'For McClellan, he would need to prepare to go 12 rounds in strong pace for me, because you can hit me in the face with a shotgun and I'm getting straight up. My chin is made from cast iron, that's a stone cold fact!

'Even in one particular fight of mine at a London soccer venue against a strong puncher where letting him have free shots for the second half of 11 rounds; I couldn't be put away. There's no one-round job here.

'But it would take Mr King to dig deep into his pockets if the American public would want to see that particular match once I do this quick job on Close, because he does have that phenomenal power with the good boxing ability, McClellan. And that's one boxer speaking in truth terms - it's a profession, it's a living, a business.'


Nunn
'Nunn has lost, so Steve Little is the fight. Nunn is not the fight. For truth speaking, to defend my world championship title against Nunn, who has lost two of his own and so is down the pecking order, he's not being mandated, and he's not bringing a great deal to the table other than a difficult southpaw style, being big and hard to counterpunch; great deal of talent. So... to fight Nunn now would be the definition of ludicrous. Ludicrous.'



'There isn't a fighter in the history of the planet more entertaining than I, so sit back and enjoy the show and it will be my pleasure to entertain you.'

[tonyevs]

For me RJJ was the absolute best at 168, he was almost superhuman he was so quick and powerful, and he was virtually impossible to nail with a clean shot.

Roy would have eaten Calzaghe up, perhaps even stopped him, as Calzaghe's style was very aggressive and would have given Roy plenty of opportunities to counter..

I would have to agree with everything written here.
Roy Jones was near perfect. There has never been a middleweight or super-middle in history who could have beaten a prime Roy Jones.

Calzahe v Toney, again, I'd have to favour Toney. Too many wrinkles in his game.

As somebody here earlier wrote. Sometimes an American fighter can get over-hyped on the back of being an American .. Calzaghe v Toney could well have been 50/50

[coghaugen11]

Interesting:





On Showtime before his 2nd fight with Ray Close....



Toney
'Well, based on all recent performances, the only difficult fight for me in the world of all the fully-fledged super-middleweight fighters is James Toney, based on recent performances. Obviously there are political complications involved, but that's the answer to the question. I'm joint #1 in the world. You'll be watching one of the best in the game tonight. Not the proven, absolute very best, but one of them.'


G-Man
'He's a phenomenal puncher with great range levers behind the right hand, robust left hook, (and) the accuracy into the body shot left hook. Three punches to defend against is a strike against him though, although easier said than done, as we see.

'For McClellan, he would need to prepare to go 12 rounds in strong pace for me, because you can hit me in the face with a shotgun and I'm getting straight up. My chin is made from cast iron, that's a stone cold fact!

'Even in one particular fight of mine at a London soccer venue against a strong puncher where letting him have free shots for the second half of 11 rounds; I couldn't be put away. There's no one-round job here.

'But it would take Mr King to dig deep into his pockets if the American public would want to see that particular match once I do this quick job on Close, because he does have that phenomenal power with the good boxing ability, McClellan. And that's one boxer speaking in truth terms - it's a profession, it's a living, a business.'


Nunn
'Nunn has lost, so Steve Little is the fight. Nunn is not the fight. For truth speaking, to defend my world championship title against Nunn, who has last two of his own and so is down the pecking order, he's not being mandated, and he's not bringing a great deal to the table other than a difficult southpaw style, being big and hard to counterpunch; great deal of talent. So... to fight Nunn now would be the definition of ludicrous. Ludicrous.'



'There isn't a fighter in the history of the planet more entertaining than I, so sit back and enjoy the show and it will be my pleasure to entertain you.'

[loaded_gloves]

Roy Jones was near perfect. There has never been a middleweight or super-middle in history who could have beaten a prime Roy Jones.

Amazing statement to make, based on what Jones did at middle and who he fought. Really a ridiculous remark, without meaning to be rude. I assume, and obviously won't admit it, you have seen very few of the great middles.

To say NO MIDDLE IN HISTORY could have beaten RJJ off his wins over Hopkins and Thomas Tate is absolutely outrageous. Any number of middles would have KOd him, including guys who never won the title. (back when there wasn't three to pick & choose from)

[Jon Saxon]

Roy Jones was near perfect. There has never been a middleweight or super-middle in history who could have beaten a prime Roy Jones.

Amazing statement to make, based on what Jones did at middle and who he fought. Really a ridiculous remark, without meaning to be rude. I assume, and obviously won't admit it, you have seen very few of the great middles.

To say NO MIDDLE IN HISTORY could have beaten RJJ off his wins over Hopkins and Thomas Tate is absolutely outrageous. Any number of middles would have KOd him, including guys who never won the title. (back when there wasn't three to pick & choose from)

How can you say that if he was never beaten upto 175?

Rubbish in fact.

[tonyevs]

Roy Jones was near perfect. There has never been a middleweight or super-middle in history who could have beaten a prime Roy Jones.

Amazing statement to make, based on what Jones did at middle and who he fought. Really a ridiculous remark, without meaning to be rude. I assume, and obviously won't admit it, you have seen very few of the great middles.

To say NO MIDDLE IN HISTORY could have beaten RJJ off his wins over Hopkins and Thomas Tate is absolutely outrageous. Any number of middles would have KOd him, including guys who never won the title. (back when there wasn't three to pick & choose from)

I probably should have added - no former middleweight world champion.
What middleweight do you think could have beaten Roy Jones?
Hagler? I really don't see it.
Monzon? Again ... I think not.
Ray Robinson? .... Not a chance.

[loaded_gloves]

Freaking unreal. Go buy some tapes and discover some wonderful middleweights, it really is a rich division.

I love the reasoning - 'he was never beaten up to 175 so how could any middle beat him?' So because those guys didn't beat him, those guys, no man in middleweight history could handle him? Ezzard Charles would have slaughtered every man RJJ fought at 175. He'd whip the same guys RJJ beat at middle. So would Archie Moore. So would Charlie Burley, Georgie Benton. I'd happily lay money on Jimmy Ellis and Floyd Patterson at middle icing Roy Jones, whether or not the great Thomas Tate could or could not.

Roy Jones beat Hagler, Ray Robinson? Unreal! When did Roy ever face a brutish guy who could pressure him, punish him and make him fight? His fight with Montell Griffin certainly wasn't a great advert for his ability to handle that. And Robinson not ice a guy who boxed with his left by his waist? Come on.

You need to appreciate not everybody boxed in the prima donna, pick & choose an opponent, select a title, stay at home era of boxing where you could manufacture a legacy.

(And for the record I do think RJJ was a great force, but to say no man could ever beat him is ridic)

[Jon Saxon]

Freaking unreal. Go buy some tapes and discover some wonderful middleweights, it really is a rich division.

I love the reasoning - 'he was never beaten up to 175 so how could any middle beat him?' So because those guys didn't beat him, those guys, no man in middleweight history could handle him? Ezzard Charles would have slaughtered every man RJJ fought at 175. He'd whip the same guys RJJ beat at middle. So would Archie Moore. So would Charlie Burley, Georgie Benton. I'd happily lay money on Jimmy Ellis and Floyd Patterson at middle icing Roy Jones, whether or not the great Thomas Tate could or could not.

Roy Jones beat Hagler, Ray Robinson? Unreal! When did Roy ever face a brutish guy who could pressure him, punish him and make him fight? His fight with Montell Griffin certainly wasn't a great advert for his ability to handle that. And Robinson not ice a guy who boxed with his left by his waist? Come on.

You need to appreciate not everybody boxed in the prima donna, pick & choose an opponent, select a title, stay at home era of boxing where you could manufacture a legacy.

(And for the record I do think RJJ was a great force, but to say no man could ever beat him is ridic)

I have loved this sport for 25 years and have never seen anyone as good as Jones, he was a miracle man. whether old skool (including SRR or Hagler etc..) or not.

And of course Ray failed at LH (heat or not) where as Jones would have won the title back in the day.

Jones was and will always be a freak of nature.

[ERIC GUY]

Just watched the video of Chris Eubanks when he 1st came to london to spar with Rod Douglas atthe old Lonsdale gym, , nice quality sparring, chris had the worst torn vest in the world, bet he would like that to be seen, :)

[coghaugen11]

I remember seeing Eubank fight Rastafarian Michael Justin (who had 50/50 barnstormers with future champions Trevor Smith and Del Bryan) about a year after he came back to England and handled him like he was a retard - Herol Graham came down to support Justin. One of Eubank's brothers also fought on the card.

[bripez]

I will say this for Calzaghe, despite the poor level of opposition, Calzaghe always came into fights in shape and motivated, and thus never got beaten by someone he shouldn't have. That is one thing about the unbeaten record, it is impressive in it's own right, level of competition aside.

Toney on the other hand was capable on any given night of losing a fight he should have won.

Calzaghe was a great fighter, the problem is, we will never know just how good he was, because he only really fought the top flight guys right near the end of his career. The Hopkins fight stank, a win is a win, but it wasn't an impressive win at all in my book, he did well to frustrate and keep Hopkins negative, but i thought Calzaghe came off looking the loser. Early wins over Reid and Eubank were impressive, but for differing reasons the shine is taken off of both of them.

The sole really impressive win was over Kessler, Kessler went on to beat Froch who was in his prime, and Froch as we know is a very good fighter, if perhaps not quite a great one.

For me RJJ was the absolute best at 168, he was almost superhuman he was so quick and powerful, and he was virtually impossible to nail with a clean shot.

Roy would have eaten Calzaghe up, perhaps even stopped him, as Calzaghe's style was very aggressive and would have given Roy plenty of opportunities to counter.

Calzahe v Toney, again, I'd have to favour Toney. Too many wrinkles in his game.

I pretty much agree with the above.

The first point you make is interesting, and one that I had not previously considered.

Many boxers talk of fighting down to their opponents level, and only bweing able to get motivated for tough fights. As you say, Calzaghe didn't seem to have a problem with this - although I am not sure what that says about Calzaghes psyche.

[tonyevs]

Freaking unreal. Go buy some tapes and discover some wonderful middleweights, it really is a rich division.

I love the reasoning - 'he was never beaten up to 175 so how could any middle beat him?' So because those guys didn't beat him, those guys, no man in middleweight history could handle him? Ezzard Charles would have slaughtered every man RJJ fought at 175. He'd whip the same guys RJJ beat at middle. So would Archie Moore. So would Charlie Burley, Georgie Benton. I'd happily lay money on Jimmy Ellis and Floyd Patterson at middle icing Roy Jones, whether or not the great Thomas Tate could or could not.

Roy Jones beat Hagler, Ray Robinson? Unreal! When did Roy ever face a brutish guy who could pressure him, punish him and make him fight? His fight with Montell Griffin certainly wasn't a great advert for his ability to handle that. And Robinson not ice a guy who boxed with his left by his waist? Come on.

You need to appreciate not everybody boxed in the prima donna, pick & choose an opponent, select a title, stay at home era of boxing where you could manufacture a legacy.

(And for the record I do think RJJ was a great force, but to say no man could ever beat him is ridic)

Your not serious are you fella? your trolling surely?
I really love it when a guy tries to back his opinion up by naming a guy very little fight film exists of
I was surprised you didn`t add Harry Greb to your list of guys who`d dismantle Roy Jones

ps.
Re-look at Ray Robinsons ledger at middleweight .. not sure if you know ... but he did get out-boxed a few times you know ... ;;-)

[loaded_gloves]

Freaking unreal. Go buy some tapes and discover some wonderful middleweights, it really is a rich division.

I love the reasoning - 'he was never beaten up to 175 so how could any middle beat him?' So because those guys didn't beat him, those guys, no man in middleweight history could handle him? Ezzard Charles would have slaughtered every man RJJ fought at 175. He'd whip the same guys RJJ beat at middle. So would Archie Moore. So would Charlie Burley, Georgie Benton. I'd happily lay money on Jimmy Ellis and Floyd Patterson at middle icing Roy Jones, whether or not the great Thomas Tate could or could not.

Roy Jones beat Hagler, Ray Robinson? Unreal! When did Roy ever face a brutish guy who could pressure him, punish him and make him fight? His fight with Montell Griffin certainly wasn't a great advert for his ability to handle that. And Robinson not ice a guy who boxed with his left by his waist? Come on.

You need to appreciate not everybody boxed in the prima donna, pick & choose an opponent, select a title, stay at home era of boxing where you could manufacture a legacy.

(And for the record I do think RJJ was a great force, but to say no man could ever beat him is ridic)

Your not serious are you fella? your trolling surely?
I really love it when a guy tries to back his opinion up by naming a guy very little fight film exists of
I was surprised you didn`t add Harry Greb to your list of guys who`d dismantle Roy Jones

ps.
Re-look at Ray Robinsons ledger at middleweight .. not sure if you know ... but he did get out-boxed a few times you know ... ;;-)

Post-retirement? When he was pushing 40? He retired at something like 130-3 welterweight up to light-heavy, fighting 10 times a year, and came back several years later -past his best - still with an iron chin, iron will and power to regain the middleweight title five times. There is a reason he is widely regarded as the finest boxer of all time.

To dismiss him and say Roy Jones would beat him based on chinning Thomas Tate and drably outpointing Hopkins is absurd.

[loaded_gloves]

I have loved this sport for 25 years and have never seen anyone as good as Jones, he was a miracle man. whether old skool (including SRR or Hagler etc..) or not.

And of course Ray failed at LH (heat or not) where as Jones would have won the title back in the day.

Jones was and will always be a freak of nature.

Yeah, Ray turned pro at lightweight, and battled a very solid light heavy in desert heat. Roy came up from middle. Ray had also peaked by the time he was mixing it up with Maxim.

How you can say RJJ would beat Hagler based on his epic wins over Tate and Hopkins is simply beyond me.

[tonyevs]

and power to regain the middleweight title five times. There is a reason he is widely regarded as the finest boxer of all time.

Ray Robinson was/is without doubt one of the very finest fighters of all time .. I could never dispute that

But there was a very good reason he had to regain the middleweight title five times you know ;;-)
Ray Robinson was at his best a weight below middleweight.

[loaded_gloves]

But there was a very good reason he had to regain the middleweight title five times you know ;;-)
Ray Robinson was at his best a weight below middleweight.

Yes, because he was past his best and around 40 years old.

How many times did Roy Jones regain the title after he lost it? Never. Once he was flattened, pathetically, at 35 and with one punch he never was able to compete let alone regain any of the multiple titles in the current era.

Robinson had the greatness to keep coming back and regaining it vs super tough guys like Carmen Basilio, Gene Fullmer and Bobo Olson et al whilst a younger Roy Jones was so great once he lost he never won a big fight again.

[tonyevs]

But there was a very good reason he had to regain the middleweight title five times you know ;;-)
Ray Robinson was at his best a weight below middleweight.

Yes, because he was past his best and around 40 years old.

How many times did Roy Jones regain the title after he lost it? Never. Once he was flattened, pathetically, at 35 and with one punch he never was able to compete let alone regain any of the multiple titles in the current era.

Robinson had the greatness to keep coming back and regaining it vs super tough guys like Carmen Basilio, Gene Fullmer and Bobo Olson et al whilst a younger Roy Jones was so great once he lost he never won a big fight again.

.....

OK