Frank Bruno v Evander Holyfield

[Roco]

When Bruno was on the comeback trail, Evander was current champion and after one of Bruno's wins Mickey Duff insisted that Bruno was ready for Holyfield.

I feel Holyfield would have found a way to win against Bruno, but how do you think he would have approached this fight. He could use movement and combinations with speed, but we all know he generally got roped into a war. Doing this against Bruno is dangerous. How would it have played out?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Are you joking?

Dangerous? A, "war," with that natural-born loser?

Holyfield sleep-walks through Bruno. TKO11 in a near shut-out.

[Bricks]

interesting thread. But Roco. the words Bruno and "war" should never be put in the same sentence! Bruno fought so tentatively and was a absolute front runner who had a very carefully chosen list of opponents.Anytime a fight turned into a "war" Frank was too slow and muscle bound to get off any shots and ended up knocked out on his feet!!! IMO his 3 strengths were his focus, his strong jab and the power in his right hand/left hook............sadly those are far obscured by the negatives.. incredibly slow hand and feet, an even slower brain under pressure which would freeze like a statue when hit or would cause him to gas anytime after the 9th round...a total inability until the very end of his career to come back from adversity during a fight.....

Holyfield is too fast, too limber, has far too many skills and the chin to deal with anything Bruno does and win by a 7th or 8th round stoppage......if it was a ten rounder Bruno might last the distance.....although im 90% certain he folds under the pressure and is stopped on his feet. Once Bruno got hit he froze, and could take some hellacious shots without being put down! He seemed to get knocked out on his feet in his biggest fights more than any other fighter!

All that said there is a real similarity in physical composition, record coming up , freezing (albeit in a different way) on the big stage and physical tools .....in Alex Stewart and Frank Bruno.....and we all know as slow as he was , as protected as he was.....as predictable as he was....Stewart gave Holy a hard time twice.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Stewart gave him a hard time once. The second fight Alex was too timid to engage, that was a horrible stinker. Evander stops Bruno in 4 or 5 rounds.

[Roco]

interesting thread. But Roco. the words Bruno and "war" should never be put in the same sentence! Bruno fought so tentatively and was a absolute front runner who had a very carefully chosen list of opponents.Anytime a fight turned into a "war" Frank was too slow and muscle bound to get off any shots and ended up knocked out on his feet!!! IMO his 3 strengths were his focus, his strong jab and the power in his right hand/left hook............sadly those are far obscured by the negatives.. incredibly slow hand and feet, an even slower brain under pressure which would freeze like a statue when hit or would cause him to gas anytime after the 9th round...a total inability until the very end of his career to come back from adversity during a fight.....

Holyfield is too fast, too limber, has far too many skills and the chin to deal with anything Bruno does and win by a 7th or 8th round stoppage......if it was a ten rounder Bruno might last the distance.....although im 90% certain he folds under the pressure and is stopped on his feet. Once Bruno got hit he froze, and could take some hellacious shots without being put down! He seemed to get knocked out on his feet in his biggest fights more than any other fighter!

All that said there is a real similarity in physical composition, record coming up , freezing (albeit in a different way) on the big stage and physical tools .....in Alex Stewart and Frank Bruno.....and we all know as slow as he was , as protected as he was.....as predictable as he was....Stewart gave Holy a hard time twice.

I agree Holyfield is too fast but he likes to trade, doing this against Bruno is always dangerous. If Bruno clonks him then what?

[Roco]

Are you joking?

Dangerous? A, "war," with that natural-born loser?

Holyfield sleep-walks through Bruno. TKO11 in a near shut-out.

I wouldn't call him that - He only lost to worthy opposition and did get the championship in the end. Often when he lost he was winning the fights, and nobody with the exception of Tyson totally dominated him. He had many flaws but was always in great condition and you had to be decent to beat him.

Bruno could also whack especially with the right and alot harder than Bert Cooper.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Bert Cooper got brutalized. Are you asking if Frank could momentarily stun Evander? Of course he could, about twenty seconds later he would be getting his ass whipped. Just like Cooper was.

[jezzamundo]

Are you joking?

Dangerous? A, "war," with that natural-born loser?

Holyfield sleep-walks through Bruno. TKO11 in a near shut-out.

I have a problem with this. While I agree with your take on the fight, I think to call Bruno a "natural-born loser" is unneccessarily cruel. He was a good heavyweight with some major flaws that kept him from winning at the very highest level. What he accomplished with the tools he had was admirable, not to mention that he was always a class act in and out of the ring and a genuinely nice guy.

[Roco]

Bert Cooper got brutalized. Are you asking if Frank could momentarily stun Evander? Of course he could, about twenty seconds later he would be getting his ass whipped. Just like Cooper was.

I would say he was a little more than momentarily stunned, he looked very staggered and perhaps was prevented from further damage by the standing 8 count. My point was if he is like this from Cooper then you could argue that he would in much worse shape from Bruno.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He hit Cooper with about 30 uppercuts in the same round. There just isn't any evidence that he couldn't recover from anything Frank did to him.

[Bricks]

interesting thread. But Roco. the words Bruno and "war" should never be put in the same sentence! Bruno fought so tentatively and was a absolute front runner who had a very carefully chosen list of opponents.Anytime a fight turned into a "war" Frank was too slow and muscle bound to get off any shots and ended up knocked out on his feet!!! IMO his 3 strengths were his focus, his strong jab and the power in his right hand/left hook............sadly those are far obscured by the negatives.. incredibly slow hand and feet, an even slower brain under pressure which would freeze like a statue when hit or would cause him to gas anytime after the 9th round...a total inability until the very end of his career to come back from adversity during a fight.....

Holyfield is too fast, too limber, has far too many skills and the chin to deal with anything Bruno does and win by a 7th or 8th round stoppage......if it was a ten rounder Bruno might last the distance.....although im 90% certain he folds under the pressure and is stopped on his feet. Once Bruno got hit he froze, and could take some hellacious shots without being put down! He seemed to get knocked out on his feet in his biggest fights more than any other fighter!

All that said there is a real similarity in physical composition, record coming up , freezing (albeit in a different way) on the big stage and physical tools .....in Alex Stewart and Frank Bruno.....and we all know as slow as he was , as protected as he was.....as predictable as he was....Stewart gave Holy a hard time twice.

I agree Holyfield is too fast but he likes to trade, doing this against Bruno is always dangerous. If Bruno clonks him then what?

There is a chance Bruno could get through with a powerful right or left hook and hurt or stun EH but Evander always had remarkable powers of recuperation and always fought back hard almost immediately when hurt (See round 9 Bowe-EH 1) and that allied with Brunos terrible inability to get off quickly means if it did happen EH would always overcome any minor storm....and like i say stop Bruno late or win easily on points. I tend to think it would far more likely be a stoppage anywhere between round 6 and 9.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Are you joking?

Dangerous? A, "war," with that natural-born loser?

Holyfield sleep-walks through Bruno. TKO11 in a near shut-out.

I wouldn't call him that - He only lost to worthy opposition and did get the championship in the end. Often when he lost he was winning the fights, and nobody with the exception of Tyson totally dominated him. He had many flaws but was always in great condition and you had to be decent to beat him.

Bruno could also whack especially with the right and alot harder than Bert Cooper.

He didnt get the championship --- he got a belt (it was pathetic the way he and the British media carried on as though he were champ), and his conditioning was far from what youre painting it to be.

[Alan Partridge]

Are you joking?

Dangerous? A, "war," with that natural-born loser?

Holyfield sleep-walks through Bruno. TKO11 in a near shut-out.

Ok... Bruno became a world champ as a Heavyweight... And made millions out of his chosen sport...

What have you done with yours??

I think Holyfield stops Bruno around the 9th round.

[Bricks]

Are you joking?

Dangerous? A, "war," with that natural-born loser?

Holyfield sleep-walks through Bruno. TKO11 in a near shut-out.

I wouldn't call him that - He only lost to worthy opposition and did get the championship in the end. Often when he lost he was winning the fights, and nobody with the exception of Tyson totally dominated him. He had many flaws but was always in great condition and you had to be decent to beat him.

Bruno could also whack especially with the right and alot harder than Bert Cooper.

He didnt get the championship --- he got a belt (it was pathetic the way he and the British media carried on as though he were champ), and his conditioning was far from what youre painting it to be.

Irene u add colour to the board with your outback bushman way of telling it like you think it is, but in the last few days you've called Golota a "flat out coward" and Bruno a " natural born loser"....do be aware in some cases these fighters could be reading this board and it isnt really fair to call them those things or be so overtly disrespectful.
I would say re his conditioning that although he was very musclebound hence had tight muscles which needed more oxygen, he did have a competitive work rate for the era, he put in the stamina work in the gym and was defined, but come fight night he mentally put so much pressure on himself and froze to some extent which was a terrible drain on his trained stamina if that makes sense......also in his prime years he didnt know how to hold and catch a breather....by the 1990s he had rectified that fault and suddenly put on a lot of weight and was able to clutch like the best of them....look at the 12th round against Mccall he flat out gassed himself in the 12th and only survived by holding..

I always thought that the 1989 version of Bruno was the best ....he was 225 lbs and had a good jab, and power in both hands....if that version of Bruno had left Terry Lawless and taken George Francis with him to the states (i know george never would have left london)...and got hold of say a Gil Clancy to train him and loosen him up a bit, perhaps develop him have him do a camp with Gerry Cooney who was also with Gil briefly at this time.....Bruno could really have imrproved....as it is he stayed in London, put on 20 lbs of more muscle, and suddenly upped his level of competition beating guys like carl williams, and pierre coetzer and fighting Lewis....He did the best of what he had, and was the definition of a true English gentleman, absolutely first class fellow....and at the end he had his fairy tale....Frank has had problems in retirement and we should honour the guy objectively speak of his faults too but avoid insults...I know Frank does read forums.

[Goodnight, Irene]

A bizarre offering, Mugabi.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Are you joking?

Dangerous? A, "war," with that natural-born loser?

Holyfield sleep-walks through Bruno. TKO11 in a near shut-out.

Ok... Bruno became a world champ as a Heavyweight... And made millions out of his chosen sport...

What have you done with yours??

I think Holyfield stops Bruno around the 9th round.

Feeling stupid, yet?

[observer1]

Are you joking?

Dangerous? A, "war," with that natural-born loser?

Holyfield sleep-walks through Bruno. TKO11 in a near shut-out.

Ok... Bruno became a world champ as a Heavyweight... And made millions out of his chosen sport...

What have you done with yours??

I think Holyfield stops Bruno around the 9th round.

Feeling stupid, yet?

?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Firstly, Bruno didnt become a champ. He was a belt-holder. The difference is vast.

More significant is the absurdity of Alan's logic --- I cant criticise Bruno because Ive done less in Boxing than he has...so if you bought a car and two months later, the steering wheel fell off, would you say, "well, Ive never built a car, so I cant be critical?"

I was hoping the stupidity was so self-evident it needed no explanation, but I suppose Im not surprised it had to be spelled out.

[JDC]

It's true to say he lost all the ''big fights'' (a fight with Holyfield would be in this category). In this sense he is a loser. It's not a point about how successful he was.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Yup.

[Alan Partridge]

Firstly, Bruno didnt become a champ. He was a belt-holder. The difference is vast.

More significant is the absurdity of Alan's logic --- I cant criticise Bruno because Ive done less in Boxing than he has...so if you bought a car and two months later, the steering wheel fell off, would you say, "well, Ive never built a car, so I cant be critical?"

I was hoping the stupidity was so self-evident it needed no explanation, but I suppose Im not surprised it had to be spelled out.

If you said Bruno was one of the weaker belt holders, then that might be fair comment.

But to say that a guy that reached great heights in boxing and made millions of $ out of it is a "born loser" with a record of 40-5-0 and lost to no one less then a world champion (belt holder) is just crazy!

[Goodnight, Irene]

Not if you have a shred of understanding of the term, 'context,' it isnt.

It should be a given Im not equating Bruno with a local clubfighter --- assuming you have a lick of common sense, that is.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Proposing this fight doesn't make much sense. A mythical match up like this will inevitably lead to arguing on semantics because Bruno can't win under any circumstances. Holyfield Now would have a better chance against a prime Bruno than Frank would against Evander at his best. He just isn't physically or mentally equipped to exploit the few weakness in Evander's arsenal. If you want a long shot guy with a chance against Evander I'd look at a Carl Williams type of fighter.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Well-said.

[dempseyfire]

Stewart gave him a hard time once. The second fight Alex was too timid to engage, that was a horrible stinker. Evander stops Bruno in 4 or 5 rounds.

What is this fantasy world you live in where Evander is this monster puncher? Who did Evander EVER stop within 5 rounds besides a Douglas coming in for his payday?

Holyfield wins clearly, either by late stoppage or decision, with Bruno probably having a moment or two but that'd be it. But he's certainly not getting Bruno outta there any faster than Lennox did.