Boxing Was Once Huge

[Ric]

Yeah, but in 2012 I can watch a fight at Madison Square Garden on my TV. In 1922, I would have had to to endure a two-day train ride to NYC, the expense of a hotel room and meals, and a two day train ride back. That people were willing to do that tell you how popular boxing was in those days. Do you think people today would be willing to do that?

If there were no TV, yes. While there was radio coverage, the only way to see the fights was to be there. And if that were the case now, I think people would go to great lengths to see them.

You really think that today . . . without television . . . 50,000 people would pack Yankee Stadium to see a fight between a not particularly popular ex-champion and a fringe heavyweight contender??

Don't forget that Luis Angel Firpo was also on this program, and he was very popular at this time. (He'd fight Dempsey for the title a few months later in that famous bout where Dempsey gets knocked thru the ropes and out of the ring.) For years to come, there would be countless boxers who'd take on the name "Young Firpo." As I mentioned in a quiz here some seven years ago, I had read a February 6, 1943 Tacoma News Tribune article by Dillon Graham--the Associated Press's Sports Editor. He wrote that he had gone thru the AP's index card records--which indicate the athletes who had "grabbed" the newspaper headlines for the previous 30 years, from about 1913. Graham came up with a list of about the top 20 or so. The top two were boxers: Dempsey was #1, and Firpo #2 (baseball great Babe Ruth was #3).

[raylawpc]

If there were no TV, yes. While there was radio coverage, the only way to see the fights was to be there. And if that were the case now, I think people would go to great lengths to see them.

You really think that today . . . without television . . . 50,000 people would pack Yankee Stadium to see a fight between a not particularly popular ex-champion and a fringe heavyweight contender??

Don't forget that Luis Angel Firpo was also on this program, and he was very popular at this time. (He'd fight Dempsey for the title a few months later in that famous bout where Dempsey gets knocked thru the ropes and out of the ring.) For years to come, there would be countless boxers who'd take on the name "Young Firpo." As I mentioned in a quiz here some seven years ago, I had read a February 6, 1943 Tacoma News Tribune article by Dillon Graham--the Associated Press's Sports Editor. He wrote that he had gone thru the AP's index card records--which indicate the athletes who had "grabbed" the newspaper headlines for the previous 30 years, from about 1913. Graham came up with a list of about the top 20 or so. The top two were boxers: Dempsey was #1, and Firpo #2 (baseball great Babe Ruth was #3).

Okay, let's put it in perspective: Evander Holyfield (ex-champion) v. Tony Thompson (fringe contender) with Tyson Fury (up-and-comer) on the undercard. Even without TV, do they fill Yankee Stadium? I don't think so. Let's face it, as much as we all love it, boxing is no longer a top tier sport in the consciousness of the American sport public.

[Cutman Scabbers]

Yeah, but in 2012 I can watch a fight at Madison Square Garden on my TV. In 1922, I would have had to to endure a two-day train ride to NYC, the expense of a hotel room and meals, and a two day train ride back. That people were willing to do that tell you how popular boxing was in those days. Do you think people today would be willing to do that?

If there were no TV, yes. While there was radio coverage, the only way to see the fights was to be there. And if that were the case now, I think people would go to great lengths to see them.

You really think that today . . . without television . . . 50,000 people would pack Yankee Stadium to see a fight between a not particularly popular ex-champion and a fringe heavyweight contender??

Maybe I didn't express this clearly enough. What I mean is that if television -- the technology -- did not exist today (as it did not exist back when "boxing was huge") -- then yes, people would turn out in great numbers to see the shows live, because that would be the only way to actually SEE the matches!

[raylawpc]

If there were no TV, yes. While there was radio coverage, the only way to see the fights was to be there. And if that were the case now, I think people would go to great lengths to see them.

You really think that today . . . without television . . . 50,000 people would pack Yankee Stadium to see a fight between a not particularly popular ex-champion and a fringe heavyweight contender??

Maybe I didn't express this clearly enough. What I mean is that if television -- the technology -- did not exist today (as it did not exist back when "boxing was huge") -- then yes, people would turn out in great numbers to see the shows live, because that would be the only way to actually SEE the matches!

No, you expressed yourself clearly enough. Respectfully, think you are wrong.

[Cutman Scabbers]

You really think that today . . . without television . . . 50,000 people would pack Yankee Stadium to see a fight between a not particularly popular ex-champion and a fringe heavyweight contender??

Maybe I didn't express this clearly enough. What I mean is that if television -- the technology -- did not exist today (as it did not exist back when "boxing was huge") -- then yes, people would turn out in great numbers to see the shows live, because that would be the only way to actually SEE the matches!

No, you expressed yourself clearly enough. Respectfully, think you are wrong.

I may well be (wouldn't be the first time) -- but then to what do you attribute the difference?

This thread makes me think about radio coverage of fights. Does anyone know if there is an archive?

I would like to listen to radio coverage of some of the great pre-TV fights.

[raylawpc]

Maybe I didn't express this clearly enough. What I mean is that if television -- the technology -- did not exist today (as it did not exist back when "boxing was huge") -- then yes, people would turn out in great numbers to see the shows live, because that would be the only way to actually SEE the matches!

No, you expressed yourself clearly enough. Respectfully, think you are wrong.

I may well be (wouldn't be the first time) -- but then to what do you attribute the difference?

This thread makes me think about radio coverage of fights. Does anyone know if there is an archive?

I would like to listen to radio coverage of some of the great pre-TV fights.

I don't think boxing is the huge sport it used to be. Back in those days, the two big professional sports were boxing and baseball. Boxing today is a best a tier-two sport.

[BoxBuzz]

At least second tier sports (like high school football lol) get some time on the sports page. I can barely name 12 times in 2011 where I saw boxing reports in ANY newspaper, when I turned to the SPORTS PAGE.

And NEVER unless a so called champion or former champion was involved.

Think of the picture that started this thread......not a current champion on the roster, and it probably got FRONT PAGE ink that day.


It's a whole different world these days.

[Brutu]

Up until about the late 1960's,
I think the major radio stations(like ABC-radio) use to broadcast live major fights

I think the last fight a major radio station carried live was
Frazier-Ali I in March 1971?

[raylawpc]

Up until about the late 1960's,
I think the major radio stations(like ABC-radio) use to broadcast live major fights

I think the last fight a major radio station carried live was
Frazier-Ali I in March 1971?

There were some later ones. I remember listening to Ali-Mathis and Patterson-Bonavena on the radio in Oklahoma City. Quarry-Lyle too. There were others but I don't remember specifically which ones. I think Ali-Ellis.

[scallum]

No doubt it made many African-Americans proud. But the idea he did anything to advance the plight of African-Americans is a myth.

I do not know if he personally did anything to advance the cause but his actions of winning the Hwy title gave a oppressed peoples it proudest moment

[scallum]

I am aware that Mr. Johnson did little to advance the cause of his peoples but him winning the most prestigious title in the universe was extremely uplifting to an oppressed race of humans. A poet of the times remarked about the racial killings after the fight "It is better that a few blacks get killed than the spirit of all blacks"

No doubt it made many African-Americans proud. But the idea he did anything to advance the plight of African-Americans is a myth.

I do not know if he personally did anything to advance the cause but his actions of winning the Hwy title gave a oppressed peoples it proudest moment

At the of Johnson winning The Most Prestigious Title in The World this was Africa Americans Proudest moment.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

No doubt it made many African-Americans proud. But the idea he did anything to advance the plight of African-Americans is a myth.

I do not know if he personally did anything to advance the cause but his actions of winning the Hwy title gave a oppressed peoples it proudest moment

At the of Johnson winning The Most Prestigious Title in The World this was Africa Americans Proudest moment.

Everyone knows where you stand, no need to quote yourself.

[Ambling Alp]

Up until about the late 1960's,
I think the major radio stations(like ABC-radio) use to broadcast live major fights

I think the last fight a major radio station carried live was
Frazier-Ali I in March 1971?

There were some later ones. I remember listening to Ali-Mathis and Patterson-Bonavena on the radio in Oklahoma City. Quarry-Lyle too. There were others but I don't remember specifically which ones. I think Ali-Ellis.

I listened to the first Spinks-Holmes fight on radio. (It was not on network TV) It was actually kind of interesting to listen to. However, I don't remember listening to any others. The major fights were usually carried live on national TV for free up until around this time.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

There were plenty of fights live on HBO before Spinks/Holmes. Duran/Hagler & Arguello/Pryor just to name two.

[Ambling Alp]

Yes there were some on HBO. However, there were many more on network TV than HBO until around this time.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Yes there were some on HBO. However, there were many more on network TV than HBO until around this time.

Obviously, but the bigger ones weren't on networks anymore unless they replayed them a week later. You missed a lot of fights if that was the first one off of networks you remember.

[Ambling Alp]

Well the move away from the networks (CBS, ABC, NBC) didn't happen overnight. It was gradual. The really big "super fights" were usually on Closed Circuit/Pay Per View. However, the networks still carried a lot of good fights up to the mid-1980s.

Holmes for example, fought almost all of his title fights on network TV in primetime until the first Spinks fight in 1985. There was usually at least one other quality fight on the undercard that was televised. There was a lot of fights on Saturday and Sunday afternoons that were televised by the neworks in the early 1980s, and gradually less and less as the decade wore on.

Even in the late 1980s, there was still occasionally decent fights on network TV; though not in primetime.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Well the move away from the networks (CBS, ABC, NBC) didn't happen overnight. It was gradual. The really big "super fights" were usually on Closed Circuit/Pay Per View. However, the networks still carried a lot of good fights up to the mid-1980s.

Holmes for example, fought almost all of his title fights on network TV in primetime until the first Spinks fight in 1985. There was usually at least one other quality fight on the undercard that was televised. There was a lot of fights on Saturday and Sunday afternoons that were televised by the neworks in the early 1980s, and gradually less and less as the decade wore on.

Even in the late 1980s, there was still occasionally decent fights on network TV; though not in primetime.

You're impossible.

[Ambling Alp]

What are you talking about? What specifically did I say that you disagree with?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Your timeline of when big fights moved off of the networks was about 5 years off. I'm not interested in a big ordeal over it. I was just surprised you thought Spinks/Holmes was one of the first big ones that wasn't closed circuit. There were many, many fights before that. You're right that they still carried a lot of fights. But the bigger ones were on HBO & even King vision had quite a bit like the Hearns/benitez & Gomez/Pintor card.

Holmes fights with Bey, Smith and Witherspoon were off network TV too, so even that is false.

[Ambling Alp]

Actually, I think you you misinterpreted what I was saying. I know that HBO (and other carriers) had carried some big fights before Spinks-Holmes. I didn't say they didn't.
I didn't say all of Holmes title fights were on a network. I said that almost of Holmes' title fights were on network TV. His fight right before the Spinks fight (vs Williams in 1985) was on NBC. His fights vs Norton, Evangelista, Ocasio,Shavers,Zanon,Jones,Le Doux, Leon Spinks, Snipes,Cobb, Rodriquez, Frank, and Frazier were also on live Network TV. (Rodriquez, Frank and Frazier were in 1983).
I saw the Berbick fight on network TV after it occurred, but I believe it was originally show live on network TV. The Cooney and Ali fights were Closed Circuit fights, but were on network TV shortly after the fights occurred.

I'm not sure how much we really disagree here.

My main points are:
1.There were still were a lot big fights on network TV in the early 1980s.
2.In the mid-1980s the networks started to carry less of them.
3.By the late 1980s, there weren't many, though occasionally they had one.

I guess what one considers to be a big fight is arguable. However, there were certainly more fairly important fights betweeen two world class fighters (say 2 of the top 10 in a weight division) in the early 1980s on network TV than on HBO.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You said the major fights were usually carried live on network TV up until Holmes/Spinks. That was false, no need to drag it out. If you didn't mean to say it, fine. I really can't be bothered to carry on for 2 pages with you over another inane topic because you can't admit that what you said was incorrect.

[big train express]

looking forward i dont think boxing will ever be able to capture the glory and attention it once had in the past.

[big train express]

looking forward i dont think boxing will ever be able to capture the glory and attention it once had in the past.

I believe : the more people think that, the more likelihood that will be true.

Whereas if people thought the opposite, then the opposite would more likely occur.

boxing is the best sport ever. the politics and bs ruined everything; weight classes, organizations, promoters, etc. saying that boxing can go back to its former glory is like saying the philippines can stop being crooked and corrupt as sh1t. fact is the people on the top wont allow it to happen.

[Ambling Alp]

You said the major fights were usually carried live on network TV up until Holmes/Spinks. That was false, no need to drag it out. If you didn't mean to say it, fine. I really can't be bothered to carry on for 2 pages with you over another inane topic because you can't admit that what you said was incorrect.

It wasn't false. I like anyone else make mistakes. I didn't here. I am not just talking about super fights fights (With Leonard, Hearns, Duran etc.) I was also talking about some other very good fights. When I get a chance sometime I will compile of list of fights that I can remember watching on CBS, NBC, ABC during the early-mid 1980s. You might be suprised how interesting fights were still carried by the networks.