Eubanks says Jones Jr wouldn't fight him?

[Finn]

Mate Jones beat an ATG (Toney) to win the title and was clearly the greatest SM in history. Larry Holmes at one point only held the IBF belt, belts mean nothing.
Jones was the man and everyone knows it except you.
I'm a huge Calzaghe fan,,HUGE fan but I'm not dumb.

Stop trying to dig yourself out of the slippery hole you made.

As for "smug bellend" I'm not here to make virtual friends I don't need them, I'm here to debate boxing with hardcore fans.

Its not a debate toney wasnt an all time great super middle weight and neither is RJJ they acheived the vast majority of status from middle weight and LHW and in some instances HW. Toney won his smw title from iran barkley fought nobodies for a couple of years then lost to Jones Jr how does that make him an all time smw great? Jones beat toney for the belt fought a handful of nobodies then moved up to LHW to fight McCallum, how does that make him the greatest all time smw fighter?

Calzaghe dominated the division for 10 years was undefeated and won all four major titles and the ring belt. That makes him the number 1 smw fighter of all time not a debate a fact.

Kingfinn are you honestly suggesting the James Toney of 168lbs who beat iran Barkley or the Roy Jones of 168 lbs wouldnt have beaten Joe Calzaghe?? I have no respect for guys like you who constantly drone on about so and so had 20 defences and so and so had 3 defences so the first so and so must be better....I only apply one criterion for who was the greatest....and thats who would win on their best day against the other on his best day....the list of defences should be secondary to that....

I believe on his best day calzaghe would have beaten any super middle weight in history, but facts are facts calzaghes record at super middle weight is the best in the history of the division. Do you believe the calzaghe that laid out a 12 round absolute humiliation to a rival world champion and the bookies favourite, whilst fighting the last 3rd of the fight with a damaged hand wasnt in the same league as james toney?

[Jon Saxon]

Its not a debate toney wasnt an all time great super middle weight and neither is RJJ they acheived the vast majority of status from middle weight and LHW and in some instances HW. Toney won his smw title from iran barkley fought nobodies for a couple of years then lost to Jones Jr how does that make him an all time smw great? Jones beat toney for the belt fought a handful of nobodies then moved up to LHW to fight McCallum, how does that make him the greatest all time smw fighter?

Calzaghe dominated the division for 10 years was undefeated and won all four major titles and the ring belt. That makes him the number 1 smw fighter of all time not a debate a fact.

Kingfinn are you honestly suggesting the James Toney of 168lbs who beat iran Barkley or the Roy Jones of 168 lbs wouldnt have beaten Joe Calzaghe?? I have no respect for guys like you who constantly drone on about so and so had 20 defences and so and so had 3 defences so the first so and so must be better....I only apply one criterion for who was the greatest....and thats who would win on their best day against the other on his best day....the list of defences should be secondary to that....

I believe on his best day calzaghe would have beaten any super middle weight in history, but facts are facts calzaghes record at super middle weight is the best in the history of the division. Do you believe the calzaghe that laid out a 12 round absolute humiliation to a rival world champion and the bookies favourite, whilst fighting the last 3rd of the fight with a damaged hand wasnt in the same league as james toney?

Calzaghe wasn't a real world champion until he fought Lacy & Kessler. I'm a big Joe fan and even I know this.
BTW,The WBO title is not a proper title, it's just a bogus belt and the less said about Lacy the better. I remenber a shot to shit Jones toying with him..

Joe Calzaghe beat the supenatural Jones Jnr?
Calzaghe couldnt beat Toney let alone the guy who beat him.
Joe even said he couldn't beat Jones in his prime, I remember him saying this in an interview once.

Sorry man you should quit while ahead...in fact no, your not ahead one bit.

[Quixall]

Could Calzaghe beat Roy Jones at 168lbs or 175lbs in their respective primes !!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.............END OF

Now can we please allow this thread to fornicate off down the page 8)

[Jon Saxon]

Could Calzaghe beat Roy Jones at 168lbs or 175lbs in their respective primes !!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.............END OF

Now can we please allow this thread to eff off down the page 8)

I was just thinking exactly that mate.

End of.

[loaded_gloves]

Yeah, let it die.

To say Calzaghe could beat any super middle 'in history' is to waaaay overestimate a ton of beaten up clubfighters, shot ex-champs and a win over Mikkel Kessler, who Andre Ward dominated.

You can't speak sense to people who value Calzaghe's bum of the month club so highly.

[Finn]

Kingfinn are you honestly suggesting the James Toney of 168lbs who beat iran Barkley or the Roy Jones of 168 lbs wouldnt have beaten Joe Calzaghe?? I have no respect for guys like you who constantly drone on about so and so had 20 defences and so and so had 3 defences so the first so and so must be better....I only apply one criterion for who was the greatest....and thats who would win on their best day against the other on his best day....the list of defences should be secondary to that....

I believe on his best day calzaghe would have beaten any super middle weight in history, but facts are facts calzaghes record at super middle weight is the best in the history of the division. Do you believe the calzaghe that laid out a 12 round absolute humiliation to a rival world champion and the bookies favourite, whilst fighting the last 3rd of the fight with a damaged hand wasnt in the same league as james toney?

Calzaghe wasn't a real world champion until he fought Lacy & Kessler. I'm a big Joe fan and even I know this.
BTW,The WBO title is not a proper title, it's just a bogus belt and the less said about Lacy the better. I remenber a shot to shit Jones toying with him..

Joe Calzaghe beat the supenatural Jones Jnr?
Calzaghe couldnt beat Toney let alone the guy who beat him.
Joe even said he couldn't beat Jones in his prime, I remember him saying this in an interview once.

Sorry man you should quit while ahead...in fact no, your not ahead one bit.

You post me a link of calzaghe actually saying that and ill conceed. Bearing in mind he did an interview and said he believes he would beat one of the klitschkos and that his self belief was the reason he was a champion.

And by the way manny pacquiao "only" holds the WBO title - does that mean he's not a real champion?

Im a massive RJJ fan and i think he would get beaten! so it must be true (see how silly your point was) a shot RJJ beat lacy because calzaghe completely ruined him as a fighter.

I think some guys including youself get gayitis over RJJ and forget alot about his career. He had trouble with montel griffin for most of their 1st fight ignore the second fight, it shows RJJ was not untouchable.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Kingfinn are you honestly suggesting the James Toney of 168lbs who beat iran Barkley or the Roy Jones of 168 lbs wouldnt have beaten Joe Calzaghe?? I have no respect for guys like you who constantly drone on about so and so had 20 defences and so and so had 3 defences so the first so and so must be better....I only apply one criterion for who was the greatest....and thats who would win on their best day against the other on his best day....the list of defences should be secondary to that....

I believe on his best day calzaghe would have beaten any super middle weight in history, but facts are facts calzaghes record at super middle weight is the best in the history of the division. Do you believe the calzaghe that laid out a 12 round absolute humiliation to a rival world champion and the bookies favourite, whilst fighting the last 3rd of the fight with a damaged hand wasnt in the same league as james toney?

Calzaghe wasn't a real world champion until he fought Lacy & Kessler. I'm a big Joe fan and even I know this.
BTW,The WBO title is not a proper title, it's just a bogus belt and the less said about Lacy the better. I remenber a shot to shit Jones toying with him..

Joe Calzaghe beat the supenatural Jones Jnr?
Calzaghe couldnt beat Toney let alone the guy who beat him.
Joe even said he couldn't beat Jones in his prime, I remember him saying this in an interview once.

Sorry man you should quit while ahead...in fact no, your not ahead one bit.

You post me a link of calzaghe actually saying that and ill conceed. Bearing in mind he did an interview and said he believes he would beat one of the klitschkos and that his self belief was the reason he was a champion.

And by the way manny pacquiao "only" holds the WBO title - does that mean he's not a real champion?

Im a massive RJJ fan and i think he would get beaten! so it must be true (see how silly your point was) a shot RJJ beat lacy because calzaghe completely ruined him as a fighter.

I think some guys including youself get gayitis over RJJ and forget alot about his career. He had trouble with montel griffin for most of their 1st fight ignore the second fight, it shows RJJ was not untouchable.[/quote]

I saw the same interview, i wish I could remember where is saw it.

[Loynesy]

Kingfinn are you honestly suggesting the James Toney of 168lbs who beat iran Barkley or the Roy Jones of 168 lbs wouldnt have beaten Joe Calzaghe?? I have no respect for guys like you who constantly drone on about so and so had 20 defences and so and so had 3 defences so the first so and so must be better....I only apply one criterion for who was the greatest....and thats who would win on their best day against the other on his best day....the list of defences should be secondary to that....

I believe on his best day calzaghe would have beaten any super middle weight in history, but facts are facts calzaghes record at super middle weight is the best in the history of the division. Do you believe the calzaghe that laid out a 12 round absolute humiliation to a rival world champion and the bookies favourite, whilst fighting the last 3rd of the fight with a damaged hand wasnt in the same league as james toney?

Calzaghe wasn't a real world champion until he fought Lacy & Kessler. I'm a big Joe fan and even I know this.
BTW,The WBO title is not a proper title, it's just a bogus belt and the less said about Lacy the better. I remenber a shot to shit Jones toying with him..

Joe Calzaghe beat the supenatural Jones Jnr?
Calzaghe couldnt beat Toney let alone the guy who beat him.
Joe even said he couldn't beat Jones in his prime, I remember him saying this in an interview once.

Sorry man you should quit while ahead...in fact no, your not ahead one bit.

You post me a link of calzaghe actually saying that and ill conceed. Bearing in mind he did an interview and said he believes he would beat one of the klitschkos and that his self belief was the reason he was a champion.

And by the way manny pacquiao "only" holds the WBO title - does that mean he's not a real champion?

Im a massive RJJ fan and i think he would get beaten! so it must be true (see how silly your point was) a shot RJJ beat lacy because calzaghe completely ruined him as a fighter.

I think some guys including youself get gayitis over RJJ and forget alot about his career. He had trouble with montel griffin for most of their 1st fight ignore the second fight, it shows RJJ was not untouchable.[/quote]

I saw the same interview, i wish I could remember where is saw it.[/quote]

[Jon Saxon]

Kingfinn are you honestly suggesting the James Toney of 168lbs who beat iran Barkley or the Roy Jones of 168 lbs wouldnt have beaten Joe Calzaghe?? I have no respect for guys like you who constantly drone on about so and so had 20 defences and so and so had 3 defences so the first so and so must be better....I only apply one criterion for who was the greatest....and thats who would win on their best day against the other on his best day....the list of defences should be secondary to that....

I believe on his best day calzaghe would have beaten any super middle weight in history, but facts are facts calzaghes record at super middle weight is the best in the history of the division. Do you believe the calzaghe that laid out a 12 round absolute humiliation to a rival world champion and the bookies favourite, whilst fighting the last 3rd of the fight with a damaged hand wasnt in the same league as james toney?

Calzaghe wasn't a real world champion until he fought Lacy & Kessler. I'm a big Joe fan and even I know this.
BTW,The WBO title is not a proper title, it's just a bogus belt and the less said about Lacy the better. I remenber a shot to shit Jones toying with him..

Joe Calzaghe beat the supenatural Jones Jnr?
Calzaghe couldnt beat Toney let alone the guy who beat him.
Joe even said he couldn't beat Jones in his prime, I remember him saying this in an interview once.

Sorry man you should quit while ahead...in fact no, your not ahead one bit.

You post me a link of calzaghe actually saying that and ill conceed. Bearing in mind he did an interview and said he believes he would beat one of the klitschkos and that his self belief was the reason he was a champion.

And by the way manny pacquiao "only" holds the WBO title - does that mean he's not a real champion?

Im a massive RJJ fan and i think he would get beaten! so it must be true (see how silly your point was) a shot RJJ beat lacy because calzaghe completely ruined him as a fighter.

I think some guys including youself get gayitis over RJJ and forget alot about his career. He had trouble with montel griffin for most of their 1st fight ignore the second fight, it shows RJJ was not untouchable.[/quote]

I saw the same interview, i wish I could remember where is saw it.[/quote]

Thank you.

Case closed.

[Loynesy]

my post was hidden amongst all the quotes and replies, but here's what I said:


I don't have a link to the Calzaghe article, but I remember it was in Boxing news several years ago. It was part of a small article where Calzaghe and the writer (maybe Claude) were travelling on the tube together on the way back from a funeral of one of the East End boxing legends (I think, from memory, a trainer).

I'm 100 per cent certain he said it.

In any event, I find it hard to find any rationale where a prime Calzaghe stands a chance against a prime RJJ. Joe culd be very open at times, and RJJ at his best was the best at finding gaps I've ever seen.

[Finn]

Kingfinn are you honestly suggesting the James Toney of 168lbs who beat iran Barkley or the Roy Jones of 168 lbs wouldnt have beaten Joe Calzaghe?? I have no respect for guys like you who constantly drone on about so and so had 20 defences and so and so had 3 defences so the first so and so must be better....I only apply one criterion for who was the greatest....and thats who would win on their best day against the other on his best day....the list of defences should be secondary to that....

I believe on his best day calzaghe would have beaten any super middle weight in history, but facts are facts calzaghes record at super middle weight is the best in the history of the division. Do you believe the calzaghe that laid out a 12 round absolute humiliation to a rival world champion and the bookies favourite, whilst fighting the last 3rd of the fight with a damaged hand wasnt in the same league as james toney?

Calzaghe wasn't a real world champion until he fought Lacy & Kessler. I'm a big Joe fan and even I know this.
BTW,The WBO title is not a proper title, it's just a bogus belt and the less said about Lacy the better. I remenber a shot to shit Jones toying with him..

Joe Calzaghe beat the supenatural Jones Jnr?
Calzaghe couldnt beat Toney let alone the guy who beat him.
Joe even said he couldn't beat Jones in his prime, I remember him saying this in an interview once.

Sorry man you should quit while ahead...in fact no, your not ahead one bit.

You post me a link of calzaghe actually saying that and ill conceed. Bearing in mind he did an interview and said he believes he would beat one of the klitschkos and that his self belief was the reason he was a champion.

And by the way manny pacquiao "only" holds the WBO title - does that mean he's not a real champion?

Im a massive RJJ fan and i think he would get beaten! so it must be true (see how silly your point was) a shot RJJ beat lacy because calzaghe completely ruined him as a fighter.

I think some guys including youself get gayitis over RJJ and forget alot about his career. He had trouble with montel griffin for most of their 1st fight ignore the second fight, it shows RJJ was not untouchable.[/quote]

I saw the same interview, i wish I could remember where is saw it.[/quote]

Thank you.

Case closed.[/quote]

I said post a link.

[Jon Saxon]

Kingfinn are you honestly suggesting the James Toney of 168lbs who beat iran Barkley or the Roy Jones of 168 lbs wouldnt have beaten Joe Calzaghe?? I have no respect for guys like you who constantly drone on about so and so had 20 defences and so and so had 3 defences so the first so and so must be better....I only apply one criterion for who was the greatest....and thats who would win on their best day against the other on his best day....the list of defences should be secondary to that....

I believe on his best day calzaghe would have beaten any super middle weight in history, but facts are facts calzaghes record at super middle weight is the best in the history of the division. Do you believe the calzaghe that laid out a 12 round absolute humiliation to a rival world champion and the bookies favourite, whilst fighting the last 3rd of the fight with a damaged hand wasnt in the same league as james toney?

Calzaghe wasn't a real world champion until he fought Lacy & Kessler. I'm a big Joe fan and even I know this.
BTW,The WBO title is not a proper title, it's just a bogus belt and the less said about Lacy the better. I remenber a shot to shit Jones toying with him..

Joe Calzaghe beat the supenatural Jones Jnr?
Calzaghe couldnt beat Toney let alone the guy who beat him.
Joe even said he couldn't beat Jones in his prime, I remember him saying this in an interview once.

Sorry man you should quit while ahead...in fact no, your not ahead one bit.

You post me a link of calzaghe actually saying that and ill conceed. Bearing in mind he did an interview and said he believes he would beat one of the klitschkos and that his self belief was the reason he was a champion.

And by the way manny pacquiao "only" holds the WBO title - does that mean he's not a real champion?

Im a massive RJJ fan and i think he would get beaten! so it must be true (see how silly your point was) a shot RJJ beat lacy because calzaghe completely ruined him as a fighter.

I think some guys including youself get gayitis over RJJ and forget alot about his career. He had trouble with montel griffin for most of their 1st fight ignore the second fight, it shows RJJ was not untouchable.[/quote]

I saw the same interview, i wish I could remember where is saw it.[/quote]

Thank you.

Case closed.[/quote]

I said post a link.[/quote]
What are we supposed to do scan BN for you? lol dont' be daft man bow to our supreme ken!
Well two of us remember it and im betting if we ask around more will, Joe didnt fancy it and I dont blame him.

Not that it really matters anyway as you are the only person that can't seem to grasp simple logic

[Finn]

Kingfinn are you honestly suggesting the James Toney of 168lbs who beat iran Barkley or the Roy Jones of 168 lbs wouldnt have beaten Joe Calzaghe?? I have no respect for guys like you who constantly drone on about so and so had 20 defences and so and so had 3 defences so the first so and so must be better....I only apply one criterion for who was the greatest....and thats who would win on their best day against the other on his best day....the list of defences should be secondary to that....

I believe on his best day calzaghe would have beaten any super middle weight in history, but facts are facts calzaghes record at super middle weight is the best in the history of the division. Do you believe the calzaghe that laid out a 12 round absolute humiliation to a rival world champion and the bookies favourite, whilst fighting the last 3rd of the fight with a damaged hand wasnt in the same league as james toney?

Calzaghe wasn't a real world champion until he fought Lacy & Kessler. I'm a big Joe fan and even I know this.
BTW,The WBO title is not a proper title, it's just a bogus belt and the less said about Lacy the better. I remenber a shot to shit Jones toying with him..

Joe Calzaghe beat the supenatural Jones Jnr?
Calzaghe couldnt beat Toney let alone the guy who beat him.
Joe even said he couldn't beat Jones in his prime, I remember him saying this in an interview once.

Sorry man you should quit while ahead...in fact no, your not ahead one bit.

You post me a link of calzaghe actually saying that and ill conceed. Bearing in mind he did an interview and said he believes he would beat one of the klitschkos and that his self belief was the reason he was a champion.

And by the way manny pacquiao "only" holds the WBO title - does that mean he's not a real champion?

Im a massive RJJ fan and i think he would get beaten! so it must be true (see how silly your point was) a shot RJJ beat lacy because calzaghe completely ruined him as a fighter.

I think some guys including youself get gayitis over RJJ and forget alot about his career. He had trouble with montel griffin for most of their 1st fight ignore the second fight, it shows RJJ was not untouchable.[/quote]

I saw the same interview, i wish I could remember where is saw it.[/quote]

Thank you.

Case closed.[/quote]

I said post a link.[/quote]
What are we supposed to do scan BN for you? lol dont' be daft man bow to our supreme ken!
Well two of us remember it and im betting if we ask around more will, Joe didnt fancy it and I dont blame him.

Not that it really matters anyway as you are the only person that can't seem to grasp simple logic [/quote]

I think you're one of those people who thinks they've done really well when they havent, maybe you dont understand what logic actually is. Calzaghe does hold the best record at SMW and was undefeated and he beat Jones easily when they did eventually fight. So the cards are stacked in my favour unless you have a link to calzaghe saying RJJ would have beaten him i which case i would happily conceed that jones would have beaten calzaghe.

Apart from you saying RJJ is the best fighter in the world, you dont actually have anything other than personal opinion on the subject.

i had a look to see if calzaghe said anything like that and the closest if could find was “I could probably give Jones a tough fight, probably the best fight he’s ever had,” said Calzaghe. “But I know my capabilities unless I got paid the crown jewels I wouldn’t want to risk it.”

This was in context to moving up to light heavy weight back in 2003 before he fought mitchell.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/art ... est-joe.do

[Loynesy]

I'm not a sad twat who keeps every issue of a magazine I buy, but I can assure you he said it.

I also once asked Eubank if he'd ever fancied the fight (we found ourselves standing next to the bar at Claridges). His precise reply was "no, I still have all my faculties".

I'm afraid I don't have a link for that either.

[Quixall]

Kingfinn, what a strange thing to say !!!

That if you get a link in which Calzaghe admit's he couldn't beat Jones (prime years) then you will happily concede that Jones could have beaten Calzaghe ? By that theory, if Calzaghe said he didn't think he could beat me, you would happily concede that i could beat Calzaghe ? It's not what they say or don't say that determines a fight, its THE fight itself !!

With Calzaghe, i think you are confusing the length of time that Joe was champion at SM and his unbeaten record, rather than the calibre of fighter he actually was per se or the opponents he fought. Yes, he did beat Jones, it's their on record, but we all know it was a shot to pieces Jones, who had been on the slide since Tarver II and certainly the Johnson fight, a guy who he would have beaten with one arm tied behind his back in his prime. Put it this way, Clinton Woods, with all due respect him, beat Glenn Johnson, BEFORE, he fought Jones, that's how passed his best he was back then, so it's no suprise that he lost to Calzaghe some years later when he was practically 40 years of age.

It's a fact that all opinion is subjective, but there is such a thing as a concensus of opinion and also an informed opinion and i think in this debate, most people would say that Jones would have comfortably beat Calzaghe in his prime years, whether at 168lbs or 175lbs. Bernard Hopkins in my opinion beat Calzaghe by a round and he was an old version of the prime Bernard Hopkins. I don't know how Calzaghe got the verdict in all honesty. He put Calzaghe down in the first and then dominated the next five rounds, clearly doing the better work. From the 6th round onwards Joe came back because Hopkins tired but those last six rounds had about four clearly to Joe and two that you couldn't seperate, but the judges put it all together and get Calzaghe the victor..........Beyond me !!

Jones beat Hopkins in their first fight with one hand, he made James Toney look foolish and these skills hadn't declined when he was at 168lbs and neither had they declined when he first went up to 175lbs. Jones started sliding after winning the heavyweight championship at 34 and then losing 25lbs to go back to light-heavyweight and by the time he was 35 he was effectively done. The Jones that Calzaghe fought was a guy trying to pay off his tax bill, one that couldn't probably see a life out of the limelight and used his name to get fights that were either beyond him at that stage (Calzaghe) and Hopkins later on or were meaningless like the Trinidad fight. Calzaghe was a good fighter, he had a long career at SM and stayed undefeated, but he doesn't compare to Jones in his prime and most people would go along with that i think Kingfinn.

[Jon Saxon]

Kingfinn, what a strange thing to say !!!

That if you get a link in which Calzaghe admit's he couldn't beat Jones (prime years) then you will happily concede that Jones could have beaten Calzaghe ? By that theory, if Calzaghe said he didn't think he could beat me, you would happily concede that i could beat Calzaghe ? It's not what they say or don't say that determines a fight, its THE fight itself !!

With Calzaghe, i think you are confusing the length of time that Joe was champion at SM and his unbeaten record, rather than the calibre of fighter he actually was per se or the opponents he fought. Yes, he did beat Jones, it's their on record, but we all know it was a shot to pieces Jones, who had been on the slide since Tarver II and certainly the Johnson fight, a guy who he would have beaten with one arm tied behind his back in his prime. Put it this way, Clinton Woods, with all due respect him, beat Glenn Johnson, BEFORE, he fought Jones, that's how passed his best he was back then, so it's no suprise that he lost to Calzaghe some years later when he was practically 40 years of age.

It's a fact that all opinion is subjective, but there is such a thing as a concensus of opinion and also an informed opinion and i think in this debate, most people would say that Jones would have comfortably beat Calzaghe in his prime years, whether at 168lbs or 175lbs. Bernard Hopkins in my opinion beat Calzaghe by a round and he was an old version of the prime Bernard Hopkins. I don't know how Calzaghe got the verdict in all honesty. He put Calzaghe down in the first and then dominated the next five rounds, clearly doing the better work. From the 6th round onwards Joe came back because Hopkins tired but those last six rounds had about four clearly to Joe and two that you couldn't seperate, but the judges put it all together and get Calzaghe the victor..........Beyond me !!

Jones beat Hopkins in their first fight with one hand, he made James Toney look foolish and these skills hadn't declined when he was at 168lbs and neither had they declined when he first went up to 175lbs. Jones started sliding after winning the heavyweight championship at 34 and then losing 25lbs to go back to light-heavyweight and by the time he was 35 he was effectively done. The Jones that Calzaghe fought was a guy trying to pay off his tax bill, one that couldn't probably see a life out of the limelight and used his name to get fights that were either beyond him at that stage (Calzaghe) and Hopkins later on or were meaningless like the Trinidad fight. Calzaghe was a good fighter, he had a long career at SM and stayed undefeated, but he doesn't compare to Jones in his prime and most people would go along with that i think Kingfinn.

Now THATS what I call a post

[coghaugen11]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrP-H55zpIY

[Jon Saxon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrP-H55zpIY

??????????

[coghaugen11]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrP-H55zpIY

??????????

Why not?

[Jon Saxon]

Joe Calzaghe
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/art ... est-joe.do
"I could probably give Jones a tough fight, probably the best fight he's ever had," said Calzaghe. "But I know my capabilities and unless I got paid the crown jewels I wouldn't want to risk it."

He knew, the world knew, you are in denial.

Want to go to Joe's house and get him to say it on film for you?

[coghaugen11]

To be fair though, Joe was always as thick as two short planks of wood.

[Finn]

Joe Calzaghe
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/art ... est-joe.do
"I could probably give Jones a tough fight, probably the best fight he's ever had," said Calzaghe. "But I know my capabilities and unless I got paid the crown jewels I wouldn't want to risk it."

He knew, the world knew, you are in denial.

Want to go to Joe's house and get him to say it on film for you?

You do know i posted that above article, and the interview was in reference to if he would move up to Light heavy weight and if he would want to fight jones at that weight it was also in 2003 before he fought mitchell.

[Finn]

Kingfinn, what a strange thing to say !!!

That if you get a link in which Calzaghe admit's he couldn't beat Jones (prime years) then you will happily concede that Jones could have beaten Calzaghe ? By that theory, if Calzaghe said he didn't think he could beat me, you would happily concede that i could beat Calzaghe ? It's not what they say or don't say that determines a fight, its THE fight itself !!

With Calzaghe, i think you are confusing the length of time that Joe was champion at SM and his unbeaten record, rather than the calibre of fighter he actually was per se or the opponents he fought. Yes, he did beat Jones, it's their on record, but we all know it was a shot to pieces Jones, who had been on the slide since Tarver II and certainly the Johnson fight, a guy who he would have beaten with one arm tied behind his back in his prime. Put it this way, Clinton Woods, with all due respect him, beat Glenn Johnson, BEFORE, he fought Jones, that's how passed his best he was back then, so it's no suprise that he lost to Calzaghe some years later when he was practically 40 years of age.

It's a fact that all opinion is subjective, but there is such a thing as a concensus of opinion and also an informed opinion and i think in this debate, most people would say that Jones would have comfortably beat Calzaghe in his prime years, whether at 168lbs or 175lbs. Bernard Hopkins in my opinion beat Calzaghe by a round and he was an old version of the prime Bernard Hopkins. I don't know how Calzaghe got the verdict in all honesty. He put Calzaghe down in the first and then dominated the next five rounds, clearly doing the better work. From the 6th round onwards Joe came back because Hopkins tired but those last six rounds had about four clearly to Joe and two that you couldn't seperate, but the judges put it all together and get Calzaghe the victor..........Beyond me !!

Jones beat Hopkins in their first fight with one hand, he made James Toney look foolish and these skills hadn't declined when he was at 168lbs and neither had they declined when he first went up to 175lbs. Jones started sliding after winning the heavyweight championship at 34 and then losing 25lbs to go back to light-heavyweight and by the time he was 35 he was effectively done. The Jones that Calzaghe fought was a guy trying to pay off his tax bill, one that couldn't probably see a life out of the limelight and used his name to get fights that were either beyond him at that stage (Calzaghe) and Hopkins later on or were meaningless like the Trinidad fight. Calzaghe was a good fighter, he had a long career at SM and stayed undefeated, but he doesn't compare to Jones in his prime and most people would go along with that i think Kingfinn.

I think you are getting confused between whats been said - Saxon said RJJ was the best smw that ever lived, i said calzaghe was clearly acheived the most of any smw so that accalade goes to him.

Then someone said i dont recall, that you should only judge who the best was on who would win prime prime on their best day. I then said i thought calzaghe would have beaten anyone at SMW inc RJJ.

Old jonny boy then started getting all excited and said calzaghe had even said he couldnt have beaten jones at supermiddle in his prime. As unlikely as i think this is especially in the context jon is hoping for, if true i do also think it is unlikely a fighter who thinks another fighter would beat him would have actually won.

Then jon has managed to find an article i had already posted yesterday with calzaghe being interviewed about if he would consider campaigning at light heavy and his chances of beating the best.. I already said RJJ was the better fighter at light heavy. I already assumed mr saxon had taken an interview out of context or seen an interview from donkeys ago before calzaghe really hit it big which is why i asked for a link to it.

Also i think a guy who uses a fight Calzaghe won and then says, despite the verdict i think hopkins won, to then discredit him is not really someone who's opinion i care too much about. You also say RJJ beat hopkins easily, but ignore the fact hopkins was nowhere near his prime he didnt win a world title (which was at middle weight and vacant) until over 2 years after fighting Jones. Calzaghe fought a far superior hopkins to RJJ and moved up a weight to do it.

[Quixall]

Kingfinn,

I do think you care about my opinions because otherwise you wouldn't have answered my post. I wasn't particularly trying to discredit Calzaghe, just put his skills and career in a more objective light. You say i didn't mention that Hopkins wasn't in his prime when Jones beat him the first time, but neither was Jones, but you certainly haven't made a reposte against the James Toney fight that i mentioned in relation to Roy Jones.

I would agree with you that Calzaghe has had the best career at SM because he fought at the weight a long time and remained undefeated, though i don't think his resume stacks up a great deal. His beat win was against Kessler. Hopkins and Jones were way past their primes when Calzaghe fought them, effectively "old men" in boxing terms and in Jones' case he was a shell of the boxer that he used to be at that point in his career.

I would have some empathy with what your saying about Calzaghe having possibly the best career at SM, but i disagree when you say that Calzaghe could have beaten anyone at 168lbs in his prime, particularly when you say he could have beaten Roy Jones. IMO both Jones and Toney would have beaten Calzaghe and a few others too, so i know where you are coming from, but, ultimately there has to be a distinction made between who had the best career at SM and who was the best p4p fighter at SM, regardless of how many times he fought at that weight.

In doing this, we can seperate IMO, the major difference between a fighter who has over a number of years been very successfull at a particular weight, in this case SM and Calzaghe, as apposed to a number of fighters who have fought at some point in their respective careers, but had a limited number of fights at SM, notably Jones and Toney. The former you could argue for Calzaghe, but the latter would go to Jones, because whilst his career at SM was short and his fights quite few, if Calzaghe and Jones had met at 168lbs in their primes, then IMO Jones wins at a canter.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Kingfinn,

I do think you care about my opinions because otherwise you wouldn't have answered my post. I wasn't particularly trying to discredit Calzaghe, just put his skills and career in a more objective light. You say i didn't mention that Hopkins wasn't in his prime when Jones beat him the first time, but neither was Jones, but you certainly haven't made a reposte against the James Toney fight that i mentioned in relation to Roy Jones.

I would agree with you that Calzaghe has had the best career at SM because he fought at the weight a long time and remained undefeated, though i don't think his resume stacks up a great deal. His beat win was against Kessler. Hopkins and Jones were way past their primes when Calzaghe fought them, effectively "old men" in boxing terms and in Jones' case he was a shell of the boxer that he used to be at that point in his career.

I would have some empathy with what your saying about Calzaghe having possibly the best career at SM, but i disagree when you say that Calzaghe could have beaten anyone at 168lbs in his prime, particularly when you say he could have beaten Roy Jones. IMO both Jones and Toney would have beaten Calzaghe and a few others too, so i know where you are coming from, but, ultimately there has to be a distinction made between who had the best career at SM and who was the best p4p fighter at SM, regardless of how many times he fought at that weight.

In doing this, we can seperate IMO, the major difference between a fighter who has over a number of years been very successfull at a particular weight, in this case SM and Calzaghe, as apposed to a number of fighters who have fought at some point in their respective careers, but had a limited number of fights at SM, notably Jones and Toney. The former you could argue for Calzaghe, but the latter would go to Jones, because whilst his career at SM was short and his fights quite few, if Calzaghe and Jones had met at 168lbs in their primes, then IMO Jones wins at a canter.

That's the thing, Hopkins may not have been at his best when he fought Jones, but he was young, and strong, and was on a roll , he has had a great career post Trinidad, but he hasnt beaten any great fighters. Calzaghe was barely able to beat Hopkins, who was certainly not at his best, Jones absolutely pissed on him, when he was a little before his prime.

Jones has been physically shot since the Ruiz fight, he has never looked even vaguely the same fighter,does anyone here really think Johnson could have lived with a prime Jones Jr? His decline was rapid, but that's how it is sometimes. Just because Hopkins is still near the top of the pile, doesn't mean he is not physically way past his peak, the fact he is still competing at top level, shows up the deficit in skill of the current 175 lb fighters.

Calzaghe has arguably the best resume at 168, but only because of sheer numbers. I'd have bet Jones at his peak to have beaten Calzaghe and everyone he faced. I really cannot see the case for Calzaghe beating jones, jones was far far too good.