Dempsey VS Liston...

[Goodnight, Irene]

I always had trouble envisioning this one, so what do you guys think?

[flatnoseflynn]

Dempsey would be to quick for Liston, unless he got nailed of course then it would be night night Irene.

[yancey]

I always had trouble envisioning this one, so what do you guys think?

Funny, I have no trouble envisioning Sonny punching Dempsey senseless.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I always had trouble envisioning this one, so what do you guys think?

Funny, I have no trouble envisioning Sonny punching Dempsey senseless.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I always had trouble envisioning this one, so what do you guys think?

Funny, I have no trouble envisioning Sonny punching Dempsey senseless.

Yet youd pick the slower (and slower-starting) less damaging, less adaptable Frazier to whip Liston? Citing his advantage in heart?

[yancey]

I always had trouble envisioning this one, so what do you guys think?

Funny, I have no trouble envisioning Sonny punching Dempsey senseless.

Yet youd pick the slower (and slower-starting) less damaging, less adaptable Frazier to whip Liston? Citing his advantage in heart?

deleted--duplicate posts.

[yancey]

I always had trouble envisioning this one, so what do you guys think?

Funny, I have no trouble envisioning Sonny punching Dempsey senseless.

Yet youd pick the slower (and slower-starting) less damaging, less adaptable Frazier to whip Liston? Citing his advantage in heart?

Frazier also punches Dempsey senseless.

Yes, I think Frazier survives Sonny, outwills him, and ultimately beats him. Do you think I'm out there in left field by myself on this one?

There was a long, long thread on Liston vs Frazier a year or two ago, many, many votes cast, and even though in the end Sonny got a few more votes, many, many posters here saw Frazier prevailing.

What I find strange is that you call Sonny a "shoo-in" against Frazier on another thread, yet here you state you have trouble envisioning the Dempsey-Liston outcome.

Liston would punch Dempsey senseless and so would Frazier.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Thats funny, because what I find strange is that you pick Frazier over Liston (without apparent doubt at all), yet are equally sure Liston annihilates Dempsey. Dempsey was far more explosive and capable of turning a bout quickly than Frazier ever was. If Liston hurt either man early on (and I expect he would), it was Dempsey who could respond quickest, not Frazier.

And Dempsey batters Frazier in a horrible clash between a fast starter and a slow one

[yancey]

Thats funny, because what I find strange is that you pick Frazier over Liston (without apparent doubt at all), yet are equally sure Liston annihilates Dempsey. Dempsey was far more explosive and capable of turning a bout quickly than Frazier ever was. If Liston hurt either man early on (and I expect he would), it was Dempsey who could respond quickest, not Frazier.

And Dempsey batters Frazier in a horrible clash between a fast starter and a slow one

I definitely have doubts about Frazier against Sonny, but I do suspect he finds a way to get it done.....

with heart being a significant factor.

Much less doubt on Liston-Dempsey and Frazier-Dempsey, by the way.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Dempsey didnt have more heart than Liston!?

In fairness, you know had they never fought, youd find a way to make Frazier favourite against Foreman (hell, you almost do it anyway, citing 71 Frazier).

And then youll tell us Frazier was SO much better than Rocky Marciano and wouldve whipped him with room to spare (absurd).

[yancey]

Dempsey didnt have more heart than Liston!?

In fairness, you know had they never fought, youd find a way to make Frazier favourite against Foreman (hell, you almost do it anyway, citing 71 Frazier).

And then youll tell us Frazier was SO much better than Rocky Marciano and wouldve whipped him with room to spare (absurd).

Slightly less than 6 in 10 is "SO" much better?

I learn something new every day.

(sarcasm intended)

[Goodnight, Irene]

There is no end to your double-standards when it comes to Frazier, Yance. A reason for Frazier is an excuse for Ali (or any other HW) with you.

[yancey]

There is no end to your double-standards when it comes to Frazier, Yance. A reason for Frazier is an excuse for Ali (or any other HW) with you.

I suspect that you don't read close enough or that you have been influenced by the likes of GianConnie, who for some reason has it in for me.

I don't think Frazier is the be-all and end-all of all heavies.

He is around 5th-6th in my all-time rankings. He had a very short peak, as swarmers tend to do.

I LOVED his style, his warrior ethic, but certainly he could be beaten. He was terribly mistreated by Ali and I felt badly for a good man like Joe because of this.

Mega-Tyson was Frazier's superior as a swarmer, as Frazier was Marciano's superior as a swarmer.

I have Ali at #1 in my all-time rankings, based on his long career and wins over many greats.

Foreman in '73 is a favorite over any version of Frazier, in my mind.

Does this sound like someone pushing a relentless double-standard for Frazier?

You need to read closer, bud.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Who, or what, is mega-Tyson?

Giancarlo has it in for you because you're perceived by him to be anti-Ali. He certainly doesnt influence me. He spent months here trying to goad me into a street fight FOR things I have said against Ali, in fact

I have to admit, I rank Frazier exactly 6th as well. I just dont see him as this hugely diminished force going into 1973.

[yancey]

Who, or what, is mega-Tyson?

Giancarlo has it in for you because you're perceived by him to be anti-Ali. He certainly doesnt influence me. He spent months here trying to goad me into a street fight FOR things I have said against Ali, in fact

I have to admit, I rank Frazier exactly 6th as well. I just dont see him as this hugely diminished force going into 1973.

Mega-Tyson to me was that period of time where he was just blowing guys away. I do not recall the dates, but it would be the Michael Spinks fight and before where guys were scared to get in the ring with him.

At that point, he looked quicker and more powerful than Frazier ever did.

Maybe it was hype I was buying into, but that Tyson rekindled my interest in boxing for a while. I thought he was a freaking killer there for a time.

Looking back, maybe it was simply weaker opposition than what Frazier had to deal with.

[yancey]

Who, or what, is mega-Tyson?

Giancarlo has it in for you because you're perceived by him to be anti-Ali. He certainly doesnt influence me. He spent months here trying to goad me into a street fight FOR things I have said against Ali, in fact

I have to admit, I rank Frazier exactly 6th as well. I just dont see him as this hugely diminished force going into 1973.

I wouldn't say "hugely", either. I think "noticeably" on the decline would be something that I would have agreed with.

But to my way of thinking, if a guy like Frazier dropped off 10-15% of what he was at his absolute peak, then he could be in heap big trouble going against more physically gifted opponents like Ali and Foreman. Throw in his growing disinterest in boxing and training and here was a champ who was ready to be taken by Big George. I have said here before that I was disappointed and saddened, but not surprised, when I heard the news on the radio about Foreman becoming champ. I was scared of Foreman's power going into that fight. I knew back in the '68 Olympics that here was a guy who may just be future trouble for Frazier.

GI, I know you are a Foreman fan, did you know that Foreman was basically carried back to his dressing room on the shoulders of the delirious crowd that night in Kingston? I don't recall that happening many other times in boxing.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Yes, he was. There is footage of it. The crowd was anti-Frazier.