Joe Bugner vs. Tommy Morrison

[Cutman Scabbers]

The Duke vs. The Bugner -- who would win?

[flatnoseflynn]

Bugner

[AngryGoon38]

Bugner

I disagree. I think Bugners style and overallpackage brings out the best in Morrison.
Bugner cant hurt Morrison,even as chinny he may be. I see Morrison reaching em,better than would be expected.
Morrison by 3 knockdown Tko in round 6. Bugner a bit awkward at first,gives Morrison harmless fits for a few rounds but Tommy starts finding the range by round 4 and its all downhill from there for Bugner. 8)

[dempseyfire]

The best Bugner wins by late stoppage. Morrison seems to be incredibly over-rated by some. Morrison was fringe-contender calibre.

[AngryGoon38]

The best Bugner wins by late stoppage. Morrison seems to be incredibly over-rated by some. Morrison was fringe-contender calibre.

I basically agree overall about the fringe contender status but, Morrison was Downright Awesome against the right style opponents. I see Bugner as the right style opponent to bring out the best in Morrison. What can Bugner do against a continuous onslaught of tenacious aggression and a nonstop series barrage of deadly left hooks ?!

[Cutman Scabbers]

Bugner

I disagree. I think Bugners style and overallpackage brings out the best in Morrison.
Bugner cant hurt Morrison,even as chinny he may be. I see Morrison reaching em,better than would be expected.
Morrison by 3 knockdown Tko in round 6. Bugner a bit awkward at first,gives Morrison harmless fits for a few rounds but Tommy starts finding the range by round 4 and its all downhill from there for Bugner. 8)

Sounds a bit like Morrison vs. Vaulin (the "real Ivan Drago"), except Vaulin was truly taking Morrison to school (until The Duke went downstairs).

[Ketchel]

Bugner was a survivor and I think he beats Morrison late. I always felt Bugner never truly realised his potential but would have too much savvy for The Duke. He would endure the early storm and take over from halfway.

[AngryGoon38]

Mercman and Ketchel,each of you're analysis is understandable to a certain degree but i simply dont see Bugner holding off The Duke like you's describe.
Bugners not quick enough to be this light punching slickster that has what it takes to outhustle,outbox and stymie the rampaging offensive onslaughts of Morrison. Watch his bout with Quick Tillis and the one where he unloads the left hook out of nowhere against Ruddock. And as someone else mentioned,The Vaulin bout showcased another example of Morrison finding the mark even while in the midst of initially going through a befuddling,confusing and relentless style that Vaulin was able to utilize for awhile.

Basically,Bugners not quick enough like even an old Ali or Patterson and he doesnt have anything thats even remotely close to decent punching power. Morrison had just the right style to capitolize to the fullest extent on these glitches. If you are a combination of slower than an old Ali and also a weak puncher,you're basically an eventual dead duck. A dead man running and trying to block and parry deadly blows while in there with a prime Killer Morrison.

[dempseyfire]

The best Bugner wins by late stoppage. Morrison seems to be incredibly over-rated by some. Morrison was fringe-contender calibre.

I basically agree overall about the fringe contender status but, Morrison was Downright Awesome against the right style opponents. I see Bugner as the right style opponent to bring out the best in Morrison. What can Bugner do against a continuous onslaught of tenacious aggression and a nonstop series barrage of deadly left hooks ?!

Bugner at his peak had great handspeed, so I don't know where you get the idea of him not being quick.

The right style opponent? Morrison was awesome vs old guys past their prime (Tillis, Thomas, Foreman to an extent). Vs the rest he struggled greatly, and vs some pretty pedestrian comp . . this was a guy who needed a late TKO vs Joe frikkin' Hipp, got a disputed draw vs Ross Purrity, and almost collapsed vs Terry Anderson. But now he's going to KO Joe Bugner, who had an iron chin, fast hands, very good defense, and good skills?

Bugner faced far superior "tenacious aggression" vs Frazier and Lyle and lost close decisions vs both.

[AngryGoon38]

The best Bugner wins by late stoppage. Morrison seems to be incredibly over-rated by some. Morrison was fringe-contender calibre.

I basically agree overall about the fringe contender status but, Morrison was Downright Awesome against the right style opponents. I see Bugner as the right style opponent to bring out the best in Morrison. What can Bugner do against a continuous onslaught of tenacious aggression and a nonstop series barrage of deadly left hooks ?!

Bugner at his peak had great handspeed, so I don't know where you get the idea of him not being quick.

The right style opponent? Morrison was awesome vs old guys past their prime (Tillis, Thomas, Foreman to an extent). Vs the rest he struggled greatly, and vs some pretty pedestrian comp . . this was a guy who needed a late TKO vs Joe frikkin' Hipp, got a disputed draw vs Ross Purrity, and almost collapsed vs Terry Anderson. But now he's going to KO Joe Bugner, who had an iron chin, fast hands, very good defense, and good skills?

Bugner faced far superior "tenacious aggression" vs Frazier and Lyle and lost close decisions vs both.

The thing is though, Morrison broke both hands in the Joe Hipp fight,one in the 1st round and the other in the 3rd from what i heard. Ross Purrity was awkward and could box,much like Bugner,especially in his really up for it spoiler modes, cept, unlike the BugMan,this dude could swat, quite freakin hard. Like i stated,if one really lacks in punch power,they're a sitting duck even with good defense. The only good defense that beats the duke is a good offense. That was the epitome of Morrison. He could look unbelievably awesome against some and really duddish and disappointing against others.

Basically,Anyone with a punch can beat Morrison,and you gotta move like Ali to outbox Morrison utlizing all out boxer mode. Holmes would'nt be a good example of just needing a jab to beat Morrison so walla,Bugner has what it takes,Poppycock! Bugner was a good survivalist and a good fundementalist type boxer with a good but not great jab like holmes or ali,not the footwork of even an old ali and no punch and this equals a bad style matchup for The BugMan. Morrison would keep pressuring and sometimes landing the left hooks and even if they're just landing on Bugs arms he's gonna be really hurting after 4 or 5 rounds of this kind of relentless onslaught. Morrison had field days with these types of styles. Theyr'es virtually no consequences,its basically target practice after 4 or 5 rounds of constantly catching vicious brutal hooks on the arms,and i definately could see plenty of body blow punches landing in the midst of tring to block everything from The Duke unloading his missels with no consequences.

Like i stated,Purrity could bang,with quite an abundance of punch force,Bugner cant,period.
Even an old Ali would have the footwork,and sharp enough punches and jabs to get it done against Morrison,and Holmes would have the constant jackhammer jabs and deceptively strong right hands to get it done even easier,but Bugner is too lacking in everything he could otherwise utilize against a lesser opponent than Morrison. Against many,Bugner can frustrate and box brilliantly but Morrison's another animal. Basic Summary of Morrison,This guy will kill you if you cant punch hard or do anything else great in place of punching hard.

[dempseyfire]

I basically agree overall about the fringe contender status but, Morrison was Downright Awesome against the right style opponents. I see Bugner as the right style opponent to bring out the best in Morrison. What can Bugner do against a continuous onslaught of tenacious aggression and a nonstop series barrage of deadly left hooks ?!

Bugner at his peak had great handspeed, so I don't know where you get the idea of him not being quick.

The right style opponent? Morrison was awesome vs old guys past their prime (Tillis, Thomas, Foreman to an extent). Vs the rest he struggled greatly, and vs some pretty pedestrian comp . . this was a guy who needed a late TKO vs Joe frikkin' Hipp, got a disputed draw vs Ross Purrity, and almost collapsed vs Terry Anderson. But now he's going to KO Joe Bugner, who had an iron chin, fast hands, very good defense, and good skills?

Bugner faced far superior "tenacious aggression" vs Frazier and Lyle and lost close decisions vs both.

The thing is though, Morrison broke both hands in the Joe Hipp fight,one in the 1st round and the other in the 3rd from what i heard. Ross Purrity was awkward and could box,much like Bugner,especially in his really up for it spoiler modes, cept, unlike the BugMan,this dude could swat, quite freakin hard. Like i stated,if one really lacks in punch power,they're a sitting duck even with good defense. The only good defense that beats the duke is a good offense. That was the epitome of Morrison. He could look unbelievably awesome against some and really duddish and disappointing against others.

Basically,Anyone with a punch can beat Morrison,and you gotta move like Ali to outbox Morrison utlizing all out boxer mode. Holmes would'nt be a good example of just needing a jab to beat Morrison so walla,Bugner has what it takes,Poppycock! Bugner was a good survivalist and a good fundementalist type boxer with a good but not great jab like holmes or ali,not the footwork of even an old ali and no punch and this equals a bad style matchup for The BugMan. Morrison would keep pressuring and sometimes landing the left hooks and even if they're just landing on Bugs arms he's gonna be really hurting after 4 or 5 rounds of this kind of relentless onslaught. Morrison had field days with these types of styles. Theyr'es virtually no consequences,its basically target practice after 4 or 5 rounds of constantly catching vicious brutal hooks on the arms,and i definately could see plenty of body blow punches landing in the midst of tring to block everything from The Duke unloading his missels with no consequences.

Like i stated,Purrity could bang,with quite an abundance of punch force,Bugner cant,period.
Even an old Ali would have the footwork,and sharp enough punches and jabs to get it done against Morrison,and Holmes would have the constant jackhammer jabs and deceptively strong right hands to get it done even easier,but Bugner is too lacking in everything he could otherwise utilize against a lesser opponent than Morrison. Against many,Bugner can frustrate and box brilliantly but Morrison's another animal. Basic Summary of Morrison,This guy will kill you if you cant punch hard or do anything else great in place of punching hard.

?? After 4-5 rounds . . after 4-5 rounds Morrison will be incredibly gassed like he always was.
Purrity could box? The guy's style was to plod forward with both hands high, and then try to unload when he got close. The guy's skills were extremely limited, which is why he was a journeyman to lost vs almost every fighter outside of the C class he ever fought.
Bugner wasn't a knockout hitter but to hear you describe him he couldn't punch out of a paper bag . . when he sat down on his punches, Bugner had decent power, Bugner hit as hard as Truth Williams who put Morrison on his a$$.
Morrison had crap stamina, a bad chin, and could be outboxed. Bugner will bust up his face with the jab early and once Tommy is a sitting duck, he's going to start sitting down on his right hand and at least drop him a few times if not stop him.

[AngryGoon38]

Bugner at his peak had great handspeed, so I don't know where you get the idea of him not being quick.

The right style opponent? Morrison was awesome vs old guys past their prime (Tillis, Thomas, Foreman to an extent). Vs the rest he struggled greatly, and vs some pretty pedestrian comp . . this was a guy who needed a late TKO vs Joe frikkin' Hipp, got a disputed draw vs Ross Purrity, and almost collapsed vs Terry Anderson. But now he's going to KO Joe Bugner, who had an iron chin, fast hands, very good defense, and good skills?

Bugner faced far superior "tenacious aggression" vs Frazier and Lyle and lost close decisions vs both.

The thing is though, Morrison broke both hands in the Joe Hipp fight,one in the 1st round and the other in the 3rd from what i heard. Ross Purrity was awkward and could box,much like Bugner,especially in his really up for it spoiler modes, cept, unlike the BugMan,this dude could swat, quite freakin hard. Like i stated,if one really lacks in punch power,they're a sitting duck even with good defense. The only good defense that beats the duke is a good offense. That was the epitome of Morrison. He could look unbelievably awesome against some and really duddish and disappointing against others.

Basically,Anyone with a punch can beat Morrison,and you gotta move like Ali to outbox Morrison utlizing all out boxer mode. Holmes would'nt be a good example of just needing a jab to beat Morrison so walla,Bugner has what it takes,Poppycock! Bugner was a good survivalist and a good fundementalist type boxer with a good but not great jab like holmes or ali,not the footwork of even an old ali and no punch and this equals a bad style matchup for The BugMan. Morrison would keep pressuring and sometimes landing the left hooks and even if they're just landing on Bugs arms he's gonna be really hurting after 4 or 5 rounds of this kind of relentless onslaught. Morrison had field days with these types of styles. Theyr'es virtually no consequences,its basically target practice after 4 or 5 rounds of constantly catching vicious brutal hooks on the arms,and i definately could see plenty of body blow punches landing in the midst of tring to block everything from The Duke unloading his missels with no consequences.

Like i stated,Purrity could bang,with quite an abundance of punch force,Bugner cant,period.
Even an old Ali would have the footwork,and sharp enough punches and jabs to get it done against Morrison,and Holmes would have the constant jackhammer jabs and deceptively strong right hands to get it done even easier,but Bugner is too lacking in everything he could otherwise utilize against a lesser opponent than Morrison. Against many,Bugner can frustrate and box brilliantly but Morrison's another animal. Basic Summary of Morrison,This guy will kill you if you cant punch hard or do anything else great in place of punching hard.

?? After 4-5 rounds . . after 4-5 rounds Morrison will be incredibly gassed like he always was.
Purrity could box? The guy's style was to plod forward with both hands high, and then try to unload when he got close. The guy's skills were extremely limited, which is why he was a journeyman to lost vs almost every fighter outside of the C class he ever fought.
Bugner wasn't a knockout hitter but to hear you describe him he couldn't punch out of a paper bag . . when he sat down on his punches, Bugner had decent power, Bugner hit as hard as Truth Williams who put Morrison on his a$$.
Morrison had crap stamina, a bad chin, and could be outboxed. Bugner will bust up his face with the jab early and once Tommy is a sitting duck, he's going to start sitting down on his right hand and at least drop him a few times if not stop him.

Hmmm. I kinda see you're point but i just dont see it actually going down like that. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Dempsey. I think Morrison's stamina wasnt as bad as you emphasize,he circled round and round and pretty much boxed Foreman's ears off for 12 rounds,..that took stamina, also, going back to the Hipp fight where he had 2 busted hands after 3 rounds and was therefore forced to really limit his punches and instead opt to take alot of punches(which tend to sap stamina alot more than anything else) and still managed to bring out those alternative power punches(the chin hooks) and get the job done in the 9th,..that all took stamina,and definately heart,cant imagine the pain he must've been in boxing with 2 busted hands for 6 rounds,and then withstanding the early onslughts of Williams and Ruddock and having plenty enough left in the tank to land the big bombs,..that took stamina.

Finally,i'll even throw in the Lewis fight as an example that his chin wasnt as bad as what people emphasize to excaggerated levels. Lewis landed bombs on morison time and time again,for 6 rounds,and Morrison was still getting up well before the 10 count right to the end. Basically,he didnt get ktfo by the Bone Crunching blows of Lewis. He proved he had resiliance and without a 3 kd rule,or overcautious ref,it would'nt have surprised me if Morrison had gone the distance in that one. His overall recupperative abilities such as resiliance to power punches seemed to be improving steadily fight after fight. His stamina seemed worse than it was because of high emphasis on people focusing on the Mercer fight,where he Really needed to take a round or two off after throwing heavy punches in high volume for 4 rounds. And then obviously needed to know to take a knee while stunned and backed against the ropes,that would've been the veteran manuever to make but Morrison was still too young and reckless and became deer in the headlights once stunned,and unfortunately was against the ropes simultaneously. A fight resembling that flaw is Weaver against Dokes. Weaver generally was known to have good resiliance but there you go,it can happen to practically anyone that isnt being savy minded.

Know i allready said finally but i forgot to mention the Bent fight and decided to bring it up before someone else would. In that one, it should really be emphasized that the 3 kd rule can really be a highly subjective boxing rule by nature as Morrison got right up after each of those 3 kd's. Think Moore-Durelle as a comparison of the subjective nature of a 3 kd rule governed prizefight. Why and how does 3 kd's automatically mean you're done ?! If not for that silly rule we'd have many more Moore-Durelle type fights and Morrison-Bent could've very well likely followed that pattern of outcome.

[Goodnight, Irene]

This thread generates more replies and discourse than Pryor-Chavez? What the hell?

Anyway, Bugner by decision here.