Joe Frazier v Sonny Liston

[Bricks]

i watched ali v frazier 1971 and harry carpenter commentating said Frazier was Alis toughest foe to date. What do you think?

[JDC]

The challenge of fighting both men is relatively equal, so ''toughest foe'' in that sense is debatable. Maybe Foreman would also be on a similar level (post Frazier). Even Holmes also, after the two year lay-off (post Spinks) might be argued.

Frazier was Ali's toughest foe throughout his career imo. Frazier was a much more modern day, rounded fighter in his prime. Liston was a great fighter, but of his era (and slightly past his best, maybe...?)

[Goodnight, Irene]

i watched ali v frazier 1971 and harry carpenter commentating said Frazier was Alis toughest foe to date. What do you think?

Thats like stating the sky is blue, or Mugabi is Oxford alumni D

In 1971, Frazier was Ali's toughest foe by a MILLION FUCKEN MILES. Nobody prior to Frazier in 71 got anywhere CLOSE to providing Ali with that type of challenge.

[Controversial]

Are you asking who was Ali's toughest opponent, either Frazier or Liston?

Or is the thread about Frazier versus Liston? (as the subject line suggests)

[King Carlos]

Frazier was a much more modern day, rounded fighter in his prime. Liston was a great fighter, but of his era

You're insinuating the sport evolved drastically in the 10 year (at best) difference between their primes? I certainly wouldn't call Frazier more rounded, either. As much as I love him, Frazier was one style: full steam ahead.

[Seamus]

If it's the latter, the guy who beat Ali decisively in the Fight Of The Century isn't losing to any version of Liston.

[King Carlos]

Ali matched up very well with Liston, who matches up very well with Frazier (in my opinion), who matched up very well with Ali. One of those things. I'd favour Liston over Frazier, but he'd never have given Ali the trouble that Frazier did.

[Cutman Scabbers]

If Foreman bounced Frazier off the canvas six times, with Liston it would be like basketball practice.

[Bricks]

i watched ali v frazier 1971 and harry carpenter commentating said Frazier was Alis toughest foe to date. What do you think?

Thats like stating the sky is blue, or Mugabi is Oxford alumni D

In 1971, Frazier was Ali's toughest foe by a MILLION FUCKEN MILES. Nobody prior to Frazier in 71 got anywhere CLOSE to providing Ali with that type of challenge.

or like meeting an educated Australian!! DD

[Bricks]

Are you asking who was Ali's toughest opponent, either Frazier or Liston?

Or is the thread about Frazier versus Liston? (as the subject line suggests)

Sorry for any confusion my fault. I'm asking who would win a fight between the two of them and also which was the tougher foe for Ali.

[Goodnight, Irene]

i watched ali v frazier 1971 and harry carpenter commentating said Frazier was Alis toughest foe to date. What do you think?

Thats like stating the sky is blue, or Mugabi is Oxford alumni D

In 1971, Frazier was Ali's toughest foe by a MILLION FUCKEN MILES. Nobody prior to Frazier in 71 got anywhere CLOSE to providing Ali with that type of challenge.

or like meeting an educated Australian!! DD

Hey dumbass, those were examples of the bleeding obvious, not oxymorons.

Fvck, youre a dipsh!t

[Goodnight, Irene]

Are you asking who was Ali's toughest opponent, either Frazier or Liston?

Or is the thread about Frazier versus Liston? (as the subject line suggests)

Sorry or any confusion I'm asking who would win a fight between the two of them and also which was the tougher foe for Ali.

Liston KILLS Frazier. Kills him. And Frazier gave Ali a MILLION times the trouble Liston did.

And now that those are out of the way, 2 + 2 = 4, and, 'cat,' is spelled, "c-a-t."

Christ alive. You are running a dumbass marathon

[BoxBuzz]

Are you asking who was Ali's toughest opponent, either Frazier or Liston?

Or is the thread about Frazier versus Liston? (as the subject line suggests)

Sorry or any confusion I'm asking who would win a fight between the two of them and also which was the tougher foe for Ali.

Liston KILLS Frazier. Kills him. And Frazier gave Ali a MILLION times the trouble Liston did.

And now that those are out of the way, 2 + 2 = 4, and, 'cat,' is spelled, "c-a-t."

Christ alive. You are running a dumbass marathon

This could be biblical in it's authenticity! Or maybe not....

However

Only a select few are privy to the fact that Patterson and Frazier were actually twins seperated at birth.

[Goodnight, Irene]

You know who you remind me of, Buzz? My mother (who I cant stand, and whos very presence makes my skin crawl). You chase after me with inane chatter and deplorable, "comedy," which makes me cringe.

I count ONE funny thing youve posted in my five years here, but you always seem to be trailing my posts. Mothers are over-rated.

[yancey]

Sorry or any confusion I'm asking who would win a fight between the two of them and also which was the tougher foe for Ali.

Liston KILLS Frazier. Kills him. And Frazier gave Ali a MILLION times the trouble Liston did.

And now that those are out of the way, 2 + 2 = 4, and, 'cat,' is spelled, "c-a-t."

Christ alive. You are running a dumbass marathon

This could be biblical in it's authenticity! Or maybe not....

However

Only a select few are privy to the fact that Patterson and Frazier were actually twins seperated at birth.

Good post, BB.

Our friend is oft wrong but seldom in doubt.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Who would ever imagine we have Frazier in the same spot historically (#6).

Aint as far wrong as youd like to believe, Yance...

[yancey]

If Foreman bounced Frazier off the canvas six times, with Liston it would be like basketball practice.

You ever notice Frazier kept getting up?

Very, very, very few heavies in history would have gotten up from the 2nd knockdown.

Frazier went out like a FREAKING LION, not some mess taking a dive from a punch that "couldn't crush a grape".

[Goodnight, Irene]

Anyway, the carbon-copy issue doesnt apply to Frazier-Patterson. It applies to Foreman-Liston :)

[yancey]

Who would ever imagine we have Frazier in the same spot historically (#6).

Aint as far wrong as youd like to believe, Yance...

btw, Frazier is in the middle of the Top 10 because of a very short peak, even though that is natural to a swarmer. I have to give others credit for longer time at or near the top.

On 3/8/71, actually a year or two earlier, he rates higher.

[Goodnight, Irene]

If Foreman bounced Frazier off the canvas six times, with Liston it would be like basketball practice.

You ever notice Frazier kept getting up?

Very, very, very few heavies in history would have gotten up from the 2nd knockdown.

Frazier went out like a FREAKING LION, not some mess taking a dive from a punch that "couldn't crush a grape".

Yep. And we will all marvel at it until the day we die (no sarcasm). Id rate getting up from the last knockdown, when he was airborne, even higher.

No one could ever question his heart...but no one could ever question the fact he couldnt take Foreman's (or Liston's, whose power was borderline equal) punch.

[yancey]

Anyway, the carbon-copy issue doesnt apply to Frazier-Patterson. It applies to Foreman-Liston :)

Let's hope Frazier didn't have that "couldn't crush a grape", Ali "anchor punch" special in his arsenal.

That "weapon" was deadly against Sonny.

[Goodnight, Irene]

If you want to go the facetious route, we can talk Jumbo Cummings or dual-knockdowns to Oscar Bonavena (a fight I steadfastly refuse to criticise Frazier for). How about Mike Bruce?

Oh, better to be facetious than to analyse the real Liston, I suppose. You and I both know if the bout happened and your mortgage were staked on it, youd abandon Joe in a heartbeat. And no one would blame you.

[King Carlos]

In terms of punching power and speed (or relative lack thereof) Liston and Foreman are very compatible, but not as technicians. Liston was streets ahead on that front.

[BoxBuzz]

In terms of punching power and speed (or relative lack thereof) Liston and Foreman are very compatible, but not as technicians. Liston was streets ahead on that front.

Well that's the theory......but Foreman appeared to be rather effective for all his "technical" weaknesses. Maybe it's that "psyche thing" he had goin' for him over the long haul.


Yance, back in the OLD OLD days, Frazier would prosper pretty well, because he would simply get up, and get back into the next round despite any setbacks in round 22 or any half dozen knockdowns earlier in the fight that might have come his way. (Something worth considering here). I wouldnt' be surprised if Joe got up out of his grave for one more round even today.

Sonny on the other hand, once leveled, (or even winded?) seemed to have serious "balance" issues. Though some would say his heart was strong....others may be persueded to think differently. He was a fella more likely to appreciate the meaning of "rest in peace".

Or at least that would be some folks take on this.


And G.I. relax and eat your damn peas....and quit whining. The reference to the fight with Jumbo Cummings is about as relevant as the reference to your mom within this thread title. Though I'm sure being your mom would give any good woman a clear case of "high motivation" when it comes to dealin' out some ol' fashion Joe Frazier style discipline on their young 'un.

[yancey]

In terms of punching power and speed (or relative lack thereof) Liston and Foreman are very compatible, but not as technicians. Liston was streets ahead on that front.

Well that's the theory......but Foreman appeared to be rather effective for all his "technical" weaknesses. Maybe it's that "psyche thing" he had goin' for him over the long haul.


Yance, back in the OLD OLD days, Frazier would prosper pretty well, because he would simply get up, and get back into the next round despite any setbacks in round 22 or any half dozen knockdowns earlier in the fight that might have come his way. (Something worth considering here). I wouldnt' be surprised if Joe got up out of his grave for one more round even today.

Sonny on the other hand, once leveled, (or even winded?) seemed to have serious "balance" issues. Though some would say his heart was strong....others may be persueded to think differently. He was a fella more likely to appreciate the meaning of "rest in peace".

Or at least that would be some folks take on this.


And G.I. relax and eat your damn peas....and quit whining. The reference to the fight with Jumbo Cummings is about as relevant as the reference to your mom within this thread title. Though I'm sure being your mom would give any good woman a clear case of "high motivation" when it comes to dealin' out some ol' fashion Joe Frazier style discipline on their young 'un.

"balance" issues, I love it.

Irene, listen to the man and eat your peas.